Do You Want a Better Thermometer?

Ok, so we all know that providing the correct temperatures for our reptiles is very important, and the thermometers on the market aren't great unless you shell out huge amounts of money.

I'm an electrical engineering major in college, and I've been looking into building my own thermometers to use in my enclosures. I think that I can make thermometers that fit our needs as reptile owners better (more accurate, more probes, and hopefully for around the same price as whats on the market today)

I wanted to get some input on what people want in a thermometer and what price they would be willing to pay.

Here are a few points that I would like to focus on, but any input is greatly appreciated.

• number of probes
• accuracy prefered
• form factor (size, shape)
• What to display and what type of display is preferred
• price

Best thermometer to me a temp guns whether it comes to enclosures or incubator. :gj:

It would be nice to be able to mount a thermometer in the center back wall and have 2 probes 1 for cool and one for hot side hides.

It would need to be as accurate as the acu-rites and would need to have a humidity reading.

Also it would be nice to say have an alarm on a thermometer to alert me if the temps go +/- 6 degrees etc.

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Originally Posted by jdouglas

It would be nice to be able to mount a thermometer in the center back wall and have 2 probes 1 for cool and one for hot side hides.

It would need to be as accurate as the acu-rites and would need to have a humidity reading.

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The sensors I'm looking at are twice as accurate as the ones as in acu-rites

Thanks for the input.

My suggestions would be similar, probes for humidity, and hot and cold side. Also being able to mount them, or make them stackable. I have no idea if this would be possible, bc im not an engineer lol, but having a thermometer that could display the stats for multiple tubs on 1 unit like on one screen would be cool. Im not sure if im doing a well enough job explaning it though. Let me know if you get what i mean...

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

My suggestions would be similar, probes for humidity, and hot and cold side. Also being able to mount them, or make them stackable. I have no idea if this would be possible, bc im not an engineer lol, but having a thermometer that could display the stats for multiple tubs on 1 unit like on one screen would be cool. Im not sure if im doing a well enough job explaning it though. Let me know if you get what i mean...

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ok I think I know what you are saying correct me if I'm wrong:

say you have a 4 tub rack

the thermometer has 4 probes and the screen shows all 4 readings

if this is what you are saying it is very possible, it just adds cost

Yes well technically it would have 12 probes 4 hot side, 4 cold side, 4 humidity probes. Like you could buy the thermometer with 4 probe ports, 8 probe ports, 12 ports etc... And up more for bigger breeders. Im using the word port bc in my head im thinkin usb port even tho i know theyre different.
And then each "probe port" would have 3 probes bundled together that plug into it. A red wire for hot, a cold wire for blue, and another color for humidity. The thing is like i said im not an engineer so i have no idea if 3 probe wires could be connected into one male part that could just plug into one of the female ports on the thermometer. And then each port would be numbered so that way you would read on the screen the stats corresponding to each port coming from each tub.
Sorry this is probably unrealistic and confusing lol... :/

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Yes well technically it would have 12 probes 4 hot side, 4 cold side, 4 humidity probes. Like you could buy the thermometer with 4 probe ports, 8 probe ports, 12 ports etc... And up more for bigger breeders. Im using the word port bc in my head im thinkin usb port even tho i know theyre different.
And then each "probe port" would have 3 probes bundled together that plug into it. A red wire for hot, a cold wire for blue, and another color for humidity. The thing is like i said im not an engineer so i have no idea if 3 probe wires could be connected into one male part that could just plug into one of the female ports on the thermometer. And then each port would be numbered so that way you would read on the screen the stats corresponding to each port coming from each tub.
Sorry this is probably unrealistic and confusing lol... :/

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No actually that was very clear and completely possible. I really like the concept. It wouldn't use USB ports but something similar.

Thanks for the great idea.

Oh ok cool, Im glad that made sense lol
And yea as far as price im more than willing to pay for quality. If people are willing to spend $100+ for a quality t-stat then why not go for a quality thermometer/hygrometer.
Somewhere down the road you gotta eliminate the probe wires and just have things setup wirelessly ;)

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Oh ok cool, Im glad that made sense lol
And yea as far as price im more than willing to pay for quality. If people are willing to spend $100+ for a quality t-stat then why not go for a quality thermometer/hygrometer.
Somewhere down the road you gotta eliminate the probe wires and just have things setup wirelessly ;)

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Wireless is possible, but still too expensive for a multi-probe unit, but a 1 or 2 probe unit could be reasonable.

I would like a thermometer that sticks to the sides of the tub and shoots out a red laser that sweeps from front to back and wirelessly(sp) reports the temperatures hourly to my android.
Maybe a deluxe model that shoots a blue laser out across the tub and reports the humidity.
There just has to be an app for that :D

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I would like a thermometer that sticks to the sides of the tub and shoots out a red laser that sweeps from front to back and wirelessly(sp) reports the temperatures hourly to my android.
Maybe a deluxe model that shoots a blue laser out across the tub and reports the humidity.
There just has to be an app for that :D

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Not sure about the laser thing lol but a mobile check-in could be added in

I like the app idea! They have an app to start your car so a temp report sent to ur phone is deffinetly doable lol...

I guess that'll teach me to be a smarty pants :P

I use a temp gun way more than a probed thermometer, BUT...

For incubation purposes I can see a more accurate thermometer being very handy, all of the cheap ones are junk when it comes to being really accurate.
I use multiple thermometers in my incubator and constantly have to double check with the temp gun.

An alarm feature going to your phone app would be nice :gj:
I agree with the wireless comment, I wouldn't want 4 or 6 or 8 probes or whatever running all over the place.

I guess I can do without the laser part, lol

Never use thermometers...All you need is one Temp gun...

I appreciate the comments, but this thread isn't a debate wether temp guns are better or not lol. :cool:

I would like to see an 8 probe unit. To me the accuracy needs to be at least +/- 1ºF I'd like to see 0.5º but the additional cost of that .5 is likely to place the unit over the top expense wise.

I have a major beef with all the current thermometers and for that matter t-stats on the market The probe shape. I get the ease of casting and sensor but I think a oblong or flat probe would be better than a round one.

I think that a 'dream' unit would have high low tracking daily and over all high low. The highest and lowest temp recorded today and the highest and lowest recorded between user resets. I would also like to see a differential alarm added. If the temp rises or lowers to fast an alarm is tripped. IE if the thermometer notes a faster than 1º per min change from the previous one an alarm is tripped.

Since I am dreaming still a web interface that allows the values to be checked via a java or similar universal web interface. The ability to send email or text messages if the thermometer is beyond a given range per probe would be a great addition too.

Dream big right?

can you do that for 50$...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ok I would be willing to pay 200$ for such a best even 1º accuracy and the ability to check the temps remotely via internet would be enough. 300$ maybe hard to say but at that I think it is a hard sell. i might pay more myself but I think those that would are few and far between.

FYI IR guns are no more accurate than the cheap thermometers few are rated for better than +/-2ºF.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I would like to see an 8 probe unit. To me the accuracy needs to be at least +/- 1ºF I'd like to see 0.5º but the additional cost of that .5 is likely to place the unit over the top expense wise.

I have a major beef with all the current thermometers and for that matter t-stats on the market The probe shape. I get the ease of casting and sensor but I think a oblong or flat probe would be better than a round one.

I think that a 'dream' unit would have high low tracking daily and over all high low. The highest and lowest temp recorded today and the highest and lowest recorded between user resets. I would also like to see a differential alarm added. If the temp rises or lowers to fast an alarm is tripped. IE if the thermometer notes a faster than 1º per min change from the previous one an alarm is tripped.

Since I am dreaming still a web interface that allows the values to be checked via a java or similar universal web interface. The ability to send email or text messages if the thermometer is beyond a given range per probe would be a great addition too.

Dream big right?

can you do that for 50$...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ok I would be willing to pay 200$ for such a best even 1º accuracy and the ability to check the temps remotely via internet would be enough. 300$ maybe hard to say but at that I think it is a hard sell. i might pay more myself but I think those that would are few and far between.

FYI IR guns are no more accurate than the cheap thermometers few are rated for better than +/-2ºF.

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I've been waiting for you to post here, I think that I will have to have you help me test these things once I get to that point. I agree on the probe shape. I have been looking at chip based sensors that would be better in a flat probe package anyway as they seem to be more cost effective. +/- 1 has been my goal, but I would like to do better if I can.

I think better mean no cheap resistive sensor and something like a PRT platinum tip. It could be smaller then too... platinum is 1600 an oz it will drive the price impossibly high.

I think if the sensor reports directly to a chip at the probe you can get better the chip than reports the probes findings to the board.

I would be happy with 1º hell even more 1.5º off if it reported online. You might give though to teaming up with Dion and piggy back on existing probes (as much as I want a different shape) it would be simpler. Perhaps probes before the rubber sheath is cast? Just thinking.

I think better mean no cheap resistive sensor and something like a PRT platinum tip. It could be smaller then too... platinum is 1600 an oz it will drive the price impossibly high.

I think if the sensor reports directly to a chip at the probe you can get better the chip than reports the probes findings to the board.

I would be happy with 1º hell even more 1.5º off if it reported online. You might give though to teaming up with Dion and piggy back on existing probes (as much as I want a different shape) it would be simpler. Perhaps probes before the rubber sheath is cast? Just thinking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I think better mean no cheap resistive sensor and something like a PRT platinum tip. It could be smaller then too... platinum is 1600 an oz it will drive the price impossibly high.

I think if the sensor reports directly to a chip at the probe you can get better the chip than reports the probes findings to the board.

I would be happy with 1º hell even more 1.5º off if it reported online. You might give though to teaming up with Dion and piggy back on existing probes (as much as I want a different shape) it would be simpler. Perhaps probes before the rubber sheath is cast? Just thinking.

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I was thinking about the Spyder Robotics probes, I have a spare one that I might be willing to sacrifice for the greater good to see exactly how it works.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I think better mean no cheap resistive sensor and something like a PRT platinum tip. It could be smaller then too... platinum is 1600 an oz it will drive the price impossibly high.

I think if the sensor reports directly to a chip at the probe you can get better the chip than reports the probes findings to the board.

I would be happy with 1º hell even more 1.5º off if it reported online. You might give though to teaming up with Dion and piggy back on existing probes (as much as I want a different shape) it would be simpler. Perhaps probes before the rubber sheath is cast? Just thinking.

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You don't want to use Plantium 190? :P Or is that a little out of your price range :rolleyes:

Sorry. I couldn't resist...lol

OP.. Honestly, if you could give me a good one that is accurate with 4 probes 2 for humidity and two for temp, that would be a perfect LOW end one. :D

I figure that I will probably figure out a basic method of measuring and displaying temperatures, then build each one custom. This isn't about money or anything, I'm going to sell these things as close to cost as I can (that is if I can get a decent product at all of course)

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I figure that I will probably figure out a basic method of measuring and displaying temperatures, then build each one custom. This isn't about money or anything, I'm going to sell these things as close to cost as I can (that is if I can get a decent product at all of course)

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You have a good idea, I won't lie. If I had the expertise I'd do the same. The $15 probe i use from Acu-Rite only measures humidity on one side, The problem is, I can't find one like you're describing without paying for it with my Right Lung. :P

Of you can get this going I'd buy one most likely..

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Originally Posted by zeion97

You have a good idea, I won't lie. If I had the expertise I'd do the same. The $15 probe i use from Acu-Rite only measures humidity on one side, The problem is, I can't find one like you're describing without paying for it with my Right Lung. :P

Of you can get this going I'd buy one most likely..

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That's what I figured, this all started because I wanted a better thermometer, and I know that a lot of other people do too. I love designing and building circuitry so its a win win

195 is fine... :rolleye2:

I am not sure about the thermal resistors myself it is not fully my field I use them not build them. My understanding is the carbon pad types and copper wound ones are just never going to be contestant enough to break that 0.7º accuracy barrier. If you want better the metal needs to change platinum is the best choice. There are thermal couplers that might be almost as good but not likely cheaper.

Just out of interest I priced the replacement wand off my PRT, 45$ figure wholesale is 5$ maybe that puts probe prices in the 30-60 each range. Too much cash.

Personally as much as it pains me to say it staying with 1º is likely the only reasonable way. I will not start on accurite thermometers lets just say that I did not find them to be even in the ball park for accuracy. The only good thing was the return was easy they just the ones that were outside the specs... (greater than 2ºF high)

I had a thought last night before I fell asleep.

Someone mentioned wireless, and I got to thinking. It lends to great marketing possibilities a different approach. Tanking the base unit and having it with a wireless radio system to a probe unit. The probe unit could have 2 or 4 attached probes and wirelessly send them to a central display unit. The probe unit could be placed in a different room perhaps multiple enclosures in different areas. If the display end could be located in a different location perhaps directly connected to a computer? perhaps it needs only pass information to software that then displays and tracks temps so the unit is just a data logger that stores on a computer? It would cut production cost, allows some expansion say 9 channels one for each probe unit and have the base check one at a time for a few seconds and then move to the next one one sample per min per probe set should be enough. If you have 2 and 4 groups of probes sold separately as a collection grew additional probe units could be added.

The range stumped me for a bit but if each probe unit also acted as a repeater there should be no problem with signal.

I like the way your talking kite demon ;)

I know it can be done the question is can it be affordable?

One thing detachable and replaceable probes if they aren't wireless! I would love that in a thermometer.

An alarm for temp changes, via siren, or email.
A beep for humidity drops, to tell me to go and mist with at least 2 settings so I can tell it that its in shed and if it drops below 60% during that time it alarms instead of normally 50%

flat probes, with the possibility to have the screw hole like Acu-rites? I really like having mine screwed down into the cage bottom, where it cant be moved so I don't have to worry about him moving it to the opposite side of the cage.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I appreciate the comments, but this thread isn't a debate wether temp guns are better or not lol. :cool:

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Sorry...I just can't stand putting wires in my snake enclosures...Seen too many problems occur from it.

The wires don't bother my snakes very much. They like to climb them:P

I would LOVE to have one that could do 4 cages at once like my herp stat pro! If it also did humidity I would be in dream land. One thing that came to mind was (and I am not sure if it is a given or not) is to make the probes durable, easy to clean and water resistant (and other icky liquids). Replaceable would be be a plus that would be really worth it to me. What would I pay for this? LOL I am cheap but would part with $100 for a high quality one that did 2 cages (4-6 probes). Alarms (for me) are not needed as I watch my cages temps all the time anyway.

I bought 4 acurite wireless ones and didn't think about it and the receivers got mixed up and couldn't tell who belonged to who so was only reading one base. It was a big waist of money. If you make one put me on your list of buyers :)

I would just want two if I was going to have just a thermometer, that way I could measure the top and bottom temps. I do like thermometers that can be set up and you can look at them quickly just to get an idea as soon as you walk into your snake room. Temp guns are still the best for checking everything and getting an accurate reading.

Ok, thanks for all the input guys. I'm currently working on the housing and should have some possible designs to post up soon.

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Originally Posted by mike41793

my suggestions would be similar, probes for humidity, and hot and cold side. Also being able to mount them, or make them stackable. I have no idea if this would be possible, bc im not an engineer lol, but having a thermometer that could display the stats for multiple tubs on 1 unit like on one screen would be cool. Im not sure if im doing a well enough job explaning it though. Let me know if you get what i mean...

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x 2

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

I would just want two if I was going to have just a thermometer, that way I could measure the top and bottom temps. I do like thermometers that can be set up and you can look at them quickly just to get an idea as soon as you walk into your snake room. Temp guns are still the best for checking everything and getting an accurate reading.

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Accurate is a slippery term sometimes. What is considered accurate by one my not be accurate by another. Personally I do not believe that +/-2ºF to be very accurate at all. I have never encountered a IR gun that is guaranteed to be much better than this. The super expensive and the cheap IR guns are all about the same a possible 4º range.

I'd agree that they are fast and easy check. They will point out a gross error in temp quickly and perhaps that is all that is needed. It is hard to say how much accuracy is required with snakes. I personally have a hard time accepting this much range.

OK so I have a 3D digital prototype of 1 possible casing option. It fits into a 19" rack for those of you who knows what that is.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...meterFront.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ometerfull.jpg

There are 8 probe clusters. Each cluster has 2 temperature sensors and a humidity sensor. the red, green, and yellow LEDs on the front panel will be lit up when there is a probe plugged in and it is functioning.

Red= hot side temperature

green (which will actually be blue but the software I use didn't have a blue LED color option)= cool side temperature

yellow (which could be another color)= humidity

The LCD displays all probes readings.

I am working on designing a way to be able to add wireless sensors later with out adding cost to the original unit.. more on that later.

I am also working on a Phone notification add on.

The idea behind this is to make everything as modular as possible. You would buy the base unit then add probes and other accessories as needed.

So what do you think?

Sounds good. I get why the 19 inch server rack style but to be honest I'd likely use a different shape, hmm maybe the same as what you have designed. Perhaps rather than the rack mount tabs use a retractable ear. Maybe that is not needed. Just thinking out loud, I am sure the empty case is easy to come by but maybe not the best shape.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Sounds good. I get why the 19 inch server rack style but to be honest I'd likely use a different shape, hmm maybe the same as what you have designed. Perhaps rather than the rack mount tabs use a retractable ear. Maybe that is not needed. Just thinking out loud, I am sure the empty case is easy to come by but maybe not the best shape.

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I was thinking about having 2 sizes, one like pictured above and 1 with a form factor like the Herpstat 4/VE T-stats. The smaller one would have 4 probe clusters.

I could make the rack ears detachable

I really like the prototype design. Pretty much what i was picturing in my head except what would you mount it to? I see the 4 corners have holes so im assuming it would go into something?

19" racks are used in computer and audio equipment. they come in may different forms but here are the most common.

http://www.rubadub.co.uk/media/catal...5/r/s/rs10.jpg

http://www.ens-co.com/uploads/produc...%20X%20500.jpg

http://www.xrackpro.com/v/vspfiles/i..._inch_rack.jpg

http://tomolangley.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rack.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I really like the prototype design. Pretty much what i was picturing in my head except what would you mount it to? I see the 4 corners have holes so im assuming it would go into something?

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It wouldn't need to be mounted to anything at all but I figured that if Someone had more than 1 a rack would be the best way to keep everything organized.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

It wouldn't need to be mounted to anything at all but I figured that if Someone had more than 1 a rack would be the best way to keep everything organized.

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Oh ok i gotcha. Yea that would be very good then for people with alot of racks. (hopefully me someday lol :D)

I'll take three please.

I really love this idea. If it could be done closer to my price range that's even better.

I would consider $75-$100 for one of these very reasonable. Of course, I'm probably way off base, but you did ask.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I'll take three please.

I really love this idea. If it could be done closer to my price range that's even better.

I would consider $75-$100 for one of these very reasonable. Of course, I'm probably way off base, but you did ask.

Gale

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I can't say anything for sure but $50-$100 is my target price range

I think that expandable is a really important aspect. 4 probes to start and able to add more. That keeps the initial price point lower as well and allows future additions. It also allows a higher mark up on probes as well. The base unit is likely going to be quite a low margin but the probes could be fairly high.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I think that expandable is a really important aspect. 4 probes to start and able to add more. That keeps the initial price point lower as well and allows future additions. It also allows a higher mark up on probes as well. The base unit is likely going to be quite a low margin but the probes could be fairly high.

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I agree. Plus by making everything modular if 1 part fails it can easily be replaced and the repair cost is less.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I think that expandable is a really important aspect. 4 probes to start and able to add more. That keeps the initial price point lower as well and allows future additions. It also allows a higher mark up on probes as well. The base unit is likely going to be quite a low margin but the probes could be fairly high.

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I agree with this 110%

Dont know if its too late for intput
But somthing that has multiple probes would be neat, and then the housing unit could be placed outside the tank, which is convienent.
Also, the app idea is beast, being able to check temp humidity and all that is cool. Now it just needs a camera and an app based video viewer lol