I want to start breeding bp

I have always been into snakes. I want to start breeding ball pythons. I have $1000 to put into just snakes. What snakes would you start off with to breed to make money to get more? How many male how many female? Thank you

Not exactly that easy there is alot to learn but just find what morphs you like. You can go to worldofballpythons.com and see what you like and how to make it. If you want some that will make you money you could do panda pieds or potions or something

I would start with Co-Dom morphs, 2-3 females, an 1-2 males

Pastels are very important, as are Spiders, anything in the BEL complex (Mojave, Lesser, Butter)

I would get a female Pastel, female BEL Complex, and a Bumble bee male.

The Female Pastel will be around $200, the female BEL Complex will be around $350, and the male bumble bee will be around $400

The listed prices are for babies, and they will take around awhile before they are able to breed.

Before you decide to breed you need to ask yourself, what are you going to do with all of the babies (they are harder to sell then most people think), can you house them all? can you afford to feed them?

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Before you decide to breed you need to ask yourself, what are you going to do with all of the babies (they are harder to sell then most people think), can you house them all? can you afford to feed them?

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I completely agree with you. You must also consider housing, husbandry, food, possible vet bills, etc... The list goes on and on. Do your research; I'd come up with a cost list of necessities and then decide what you should get.

Welcome to the site, I'd recommend checking out the care sheets and then using the search engine on the site to search for topics about care, housing, husbandry, etc...

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Originally Posted by Jor23dan

Not exactly that easy there is alot to learn but just find what morphs you like. You can go to worldofballpythons.com and see what you like and how to make it. If you want some that will make you money you could do panda pieds or potions or something

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You cant just do pandas. 1000 bucks wont even come close to one part of the project. Not to mention the pandas or should i say panda is bot an easy morph to achieve. If you have a grand and want to breed soon to have some turn around cash then get a breeder bee male and a couple breedable normal girls. Flip the babies and build your collection. No offense but a grand isnt gonna go far with anything gigher end then simple morphs. But you can sure start to build with a grand

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Originally Posted by mhayter81

I have always been into snakes. I want to start breeding ball pythons. I have $1000 to put into just snakes. What snakes would you start off with to breed to make money to get more? How many male how many female? Thank you

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It isnt that cut and dry. With $1000 you wont be able to get much if your getting morphs and they will be hatchlings which means 2-3 years of raising them to breeding size. Dont think about it in terms of money, get the morphs that you like the look of and want to work with. Personally I would just get some females now and get a double gene male down the road when you have more money. Theres alot more to think about before you just go jumping into this. Either way, GOOD LUCK.

Thank you people. I have been reading a lot. i like a lot of morphs. i know it will take around three years. just what to know what you would do. i want to start off small so i can take care of the babys if i can sell them. i just want to make money to upgrade or to help with the up keep.

he could try for pandas for $1000. It wouldnt be fast money because it would take about 5 years but he could get a pied and black pastel raise them up breed them and then take the black pastel het pieds and breed them for pandas. Its only like 6% chance of getting them but even still black pastel het pieds go for a pretty good amount of money too.

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Originally Posted by Jor23dan

he could try for pandas for $1000. It wouldnt be fast money because it would take about 5 years but he could get a pied and black pastel raise them up breed them and then take the black pastel het pieds and breed them for pandas. Its only like 6% chance of getting them but even still black pastel het pieds go for a pretty good amount of money too.

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He could, but I think that he wants to get some better results faster so he can expand and eventually try projects like Panda Pieds

Not that Panda Pieds aren't cool and all but I just don't see why so many people like them so much... They are ok, but there are much cooler combos. to each his own I guess

Personally i do like the pandas myself but they also do go for alot of money and like i said the black pastel het pieds that he would produce from the piedxblack pastel would go for a good amount too

But yes i agree that there are definatly better morphs than panda pieds even though i do like them

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Originally Posted by mhayter81

I have always been into snakes. I want to start breeding ball pythons. I have $1000 to put into just snakes. What snakes would you start off with to breed to make money to get more? How many male how many female? Thank you

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This hobby is already full of "breeders" who want to make money. If you want to breed snakes because it's your passion, then knock yourself out, but if you're in it to make money, you'll be very disapointed in the end. Breeding snakes is often a money losing proposition for even the most established breeders.

That is very true i will agree

Personally if I had 1 grand to spend on just snakes now and I wanted to breed I would pick up 3 females. And start to raise them in 1 1/2- 2 years I would have saved up enough to pick up a powerhouse male to go with them.

Then for the next year I would spend building racks to house at least 25 hatchlings. I don't think it would be very cool to have more eggs than room to put them. And get an incubator.

And most likely even if I sold every hatchling, It probably wouldn't cover the costs of the original 4 snakes, housing, incubator, food, thermostats, electric bill, and heating.

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Originally Posted by jdouglas

Personally if I had 1 grand to spend on just snakes now and I wanted to breed I would pick up 3 females. And start to raise them in 1 1/2- 2 years I would have saved up enough to pick up a powerhouse male to go with them.

Then for the next year I would spend building racks to house at least 25 hatchlings. I don't think it would be very cool to have more eggs than room to put them. And get an incubator.

And most likely even if I sold every hatchling, It probably wouldn't cover the costs of the original 4 snakes, housing, incubator, food, thermostats, electric bill, and heating.

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im starting to think i might go that way

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Originally Posted by Jor23dan

he could try for pandas for $1000. It wouldnt be fast money because it would take about 5 years but he could get a pied and black pastel raise them up breed them and then take the black pastel het pieds and breed them for pandas. Its only like 6% chance of getting them but even still black pastel het pieds go for a pretty good amount of money too.

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No offense but do you know how many pandas have been produced? I have about 6 grand tied up in that project at this point and no pandas. Or even close. Theres more to that project then just your basic genetics. Trust me.

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Originally Posted by Slim

This hobby is already full of "breeders" who want to make money. If you want to breed snakes because it's your passion, then knock yourself out, but if you're in it to make money, you'll be very disapointed in the end. Breeding snakes is often a money losing proposition for even the most established breeders.

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Lmao not true. You can make plenty of money. The people that say you cant are people doing it wrong. Look i understand the majority of people that post on the forums are not breeders but hobbyists or pet owners. Nothing at all wrong with that but it sems that whenever a thread pops up about making money with snakes it tends to turn as if its a bad thing. If there were no money in it then you would not see snakes valued as high as they are. You would not see the market the way it is. There is plenty of money to be made and plenty of room for more good breeders. 15 years ago i remember you could count the big guns on 2 hands. Now you have so many reputable breeders throwing crazy animals. And yes the market is there.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

You can make plenty of money. The people that say you cant are people doing it wrong. If there were no money in it then you would not see snakes valued as high as they are. You would not see the market the way it is. There is plenty of money to be made

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If this were true, dog breeders would be millionaires and I have yet to see one.

The people who make gobs of money off breeding ANYthing are often the people that take shortcuts at some point in the process and therefore, turn out an inferior product.

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

If this were true, dog breeders would be millionaires and I have yet to see one.

The people who make gobs of money off breeding ANYthing are often the people that take shortcuts at some point in the process and therefore, turn out an inferior product.

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Again not true lol. Dogs have specific bloodlines that need to be carefully and selectively bred. Plus the good dog breeders make their dogs worth money by showing them. Therefore the selective litters are worth more. I do know alittle about the dog world. One of my best friends of 20 years is dave wilson of razors edge kennels. Ive been very involved in the bully movement. Snakes are no where close to dogs when it comes to breeding and selling offspring. And with the abkc, atomic dog magazine, blow genes clothing, razors edge entertainment and the kennels i would say dave is one dog breeder that proves your statement as false.

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

The people who make gobs of money off breeding ANYthing are often the people that take shortcuts at some point in the process and therefore, turn out an inferior product.

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If you know what you are doing there is plenty of money to be made and you do not need to take short cuts.
I love people saying there's no money in it, leaves more for us that know better :D

OP, please get a few snakes as pets before thinking about breeding, baby steps, learning to walk before you run so to speak.

He has his name behind him now, though. He started the bully movement. He was the FOUNDER. Of course, he's got gobs of money ... more than 20 years later now, after founding a new dog breed and club, after starting a magazine and a million other side projects to capitalize on what he's done. But what did he start with? Nothing. He took Amstaffs and bred them with APBTs and people called his dogs mutts. It took 20+ years to get things moving and what about the upkeep on all those dogs over the years? I can guarantee you when he first started he wasn't able to sell his dogs for as much as he can now.

And like I said, he was the founder of a new freaking dog breed. What about the thousands of regular joe schmoe breeders out there who are trying to get a step up? Shows cost money; you have to go to at LEAST 10+ shows in a year to get your dog out there, if you have a well-bred dog with a look the judges are going for. Double that number if you're just starting out with a name no one knows. Training costs money. Conditioning costs money. Dog food, vet bills, etcetcetc.

And ABKC breeders are lucky because they're able to capitalize on a fad. Everyone wants a bully-looking dog these days; they're what the public thinks of when they picture a "pit bull". I constantly get accused of lying that my dog isn't a pit bull, just because he's styled more after gamebred American Pit Bulls and is only 50lbs.

What about breeders of an established breed?? I honestly feel bad for them because they have more breeders to compete with, thus more shows, more training, more money to spend on their dogs to try and get their dogs above the competition.

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

He has his name behind him now, though. He started the bully movement. He was the FOUNDER. Of course, he's got gobs of money ... more than 20 years later now, after founding a new dog breed and club, after starting a magazine and a million other side projects to capitalize on what he's done. But what did he start with? Nothing. He took Amstaffs and bred them with APBTs and people called his dogs mutts. It took 20+ years to get things moving and what about the upkeep on all those dogs over the years? I can guarantee you when he first started he wasn't able to sell his dogs for as much as he can now.

And like I said, he was the founder of a new freaking dog breed. What about the thousands of regular joe schmoe breeders out there who are trying to get a step up? Shows cost money; you have to go to at LEAST 10+ shows in a year to get your dog out there, if you have a well-bred dog with a look the judges are going for. Double that number if you're just starting out with a name no one knows. Training costs money. Conditioning costs money. Dog food, vet bills, etcetcetc.

And ABKC breeders are lucky because they're able to capitalize on a fad. Everyone wants a bully-looking dog these days; they're what the public thinks of when they picture a "pit bull". I constantly get accused of lying that my dog isn't a pit bull, just because he's styled more after gamebred American Pit Bulls and is only 50lbs.

What about breeders of an established breed?? I honestly feel bad for them because they have more breeders to compete with, thus more shows, more training, more money to spend on their dogs to try and get their dogs above the competition.

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I was there at the beginning. When all he had was chaos. When he got knuckles i got knuckles sister rampage. I watched him build everything he has. Yes he started with nothing but his first pups from knuckles set the market at 1500.00 a pup. The only pit bulls or staffies that were selling for more were champion adba king pin fighting dogs.( which i dont condone at all). He marketed his name single handedly just like a ralph davis, pete kahl, brian sharp or any other big name snake breeder. I know of other dog breeders that have made truck loads of money doing it the right way with no short cuts. To say that this creates inferior products is false. Thats what i dont agree with you on from your previous post.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

If you know what you are doing there is plenty of money to be made and you do not need to take short cuts.
I love people saying there's no money in it, leaves more for us that know better :D

OP, please get a few snakes as pets before thinking about breeding, baby steps, learning to walk before you run so to speak.

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I have had snake all my life. i down size because i move out of mom got married and had kids. So now i want to start back up. I like the high end morph so i want to make so money to get there. im not going to quit my day job:)

Here is what I said:

The people who make gobs of money off breeding ANYthing are often the people that take shortcuts at some point in the process and therefore, turn out an inferior product.

I never said every breeder that makes money off what they've bred is turning out an inferior product. I never said that you COULDN'T make money off breeding, just that you aren't going to be making gobs of it. Breeding isn't, and shouldn't be, a business; it should be doing something you love, so that when you take that first hit or loss, or when you have several losses, it isn't the end of the world--it's a speed bump you'll get over because your passionate about what your breeding for. You aren't plugging A + B to get C.

There are so many variables that people don't think about or account for and it leads to the problem we have with the overpopulation and prevalence of backyard bred pit bulls, for example. Everybody and their brother getting into the business to MAKE MONEY and not to do it because they love what they're doing, and then they end up taking the shortcuts in terms of research on genetics, in terms of taking proper care of their animals because don't you know that costs money?

I just don't think it's fair or wise to make it out like a guarantee that you'll turn out to be a big name or even a little name breeder when the odds are stacked against you.

Also, to get my fangirling out of the way, I think it's so amazing that you were there from the beginning. :) I have a healthy respect for Dave Wilson and what he's managed to do with Bully's, even if they're not my style. The thought behind the genetic aspect alone ... Just awesome. :)

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

Breeding isn't, and shouldn't be, a business; it should be doing something you love, so that when you take that first hit or loss, or when you have several losses, it isn't the end of the world--it's a speed bump you'll get over because your passionate about what your breeding for. You aren't plugging A + B to get C.

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I think one of the best things in the world is to be doing something you love as a business. It is completely miserable to do something you hate for living. Also, as far as business goes, high quality will get you sales and poor quality/customer service will get you in deep trouble with this relatively small, tight knit community. There's no problem in being extraordinarily fortunate with doing what you are passionate about for living.

Is it a business if you love doing it, though?

I'm trying to say that you shouldn't breed anything just for the money. Ever. You should be doing it because you want to better whatever you're breeding. If it's a snake and you're focused on pastels, you shouldn't be breeding pastels just because they're a "cheaper" morph, so you'll likely sell more of them and earn your money back faster. You shouldn't be thinking of it as a "business", on just turning snakes out to get your money back. You should be going into it with the idea of bettering the color of a pastel, of making the best possible pastel you can put out on the market.

That's how you get all these amazing morphs. With breeders who love trying new things, who aren't avoiding mixing and matching genetics just because they're worried it might not turn out right and they could lose their money. They're doing it because they love it and the "business" part of it is a bonus.

I agree. Its not an easy venture to turn breeding into a buisness. I for one work with the animals i work with because of the love of the trade. I have made alot of money doing it and actually am in the process of changing things up a bit. Ive gotten burned out from working with and chasing crazy combos that im goin back to the animal i love the most. The bees. Im going to strictly work with bees and bee combos. They have always been oneof my favorite morphs. Oh an back to the dogs real quick i still have a pup from the first breeding i did with knuckles sister rampage. I had named him chaos after daves original chaos and hes 16 years old lol. Hes all grayed up in the face and just likes to lay around. Dont know how much longer he will be around but the joy that dog has given me over the years is crazy.

Wow, 16 years old. I can only hope Kane lives to be that long. I hope you have many more years with him, that he breaks the record for Oldest Living Dog. :)

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

Is it a business if you love doing it, though?

I'm trying to say that you shouldn't breed anything just for the money. Ever. You should be doing it because you want to better whatever you're breeding. If it's a snake and you're focused on pastels, you shouldn't be breeding pastels just because they're a "cheaper" morph, so you'll likely sell more of them and earn your money back faster. You shouldn't be thinking of it as a "business", on just turning snakes out to get your money back. You should be going into it with the idea of bettering the color of a pastel, of making the best possible pastel you can put out on the market.

That's how you get all these amazing morphs. With breeders who love trying new things, who aren't avoiding mixing and matching genetics just because they're worried it might not turn out right and they could lose their money. They're doing it because they love it and the "business" part of it is a bonus.

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I don't see why you can't have business producing high quality, eye grabbing morphs and also love it... in fact I believe there are more breeders than I can count that do. Many of them advertise on this site. It makes me sick to think of people mistreating animals for an extra buck (such as puppy mills) but it's a pretty absurd notion that a business can't produce high quality animals and cutting edge morphs AND still love working with snakes.

Yea hes my oldest and unfourtanetly i dont think hes got alot of time left. Sight is going, short bladder. But hes happy right now. Cant move very well but he loves his bed. I cant believe he used to swing from a tire for hours upon hours lol.

It helps to know what you want to make in the future. I would personally start with codoms and doms, but focus on codoms for the super form. You can make some amazing powerhouses in no time with just a few codoms.

I think the most important thing when starting up is to avoid focusing JUST on the fads. Right now BELs and Pieds are hot, but you have to think of all the people getting into the business right now hoping to capitalize on that. I figure in about four to five years, both of these will probably be going for about a quarter of the price breeders are asking right now, simply because: 1. they are RELATIVELY easy to breed for, 2. the number of het animals on the market for pieds is astounding, and the "material" to breed BELs are relatively cheap and easy to come by, 3. and people believe breeding these will bring in money quickly. Considering the soaring popularity of ball pythons as pets and how quickly people become completely enamored of them, there are hundreds of people hoping to get into breeding each day. Chances are, right now a HUGE number of these are going to be buying the "materials" to breed the hot "items," and the vast majority of these "materials" will be hatchlings that will take 3 years to raise up. 3-4 years from now, I worry that the market will be flooded with these easy, currently hot morphs. Instead, I would go for the morphs that provide building blocks for other morphs: pastels, spiders, pinstripes, mojaves, lessers, etc. If you can get multi-gene snakes for the price you want, definitely go for it! Sure, breed for BELs and pieds, but don't focus on these alone. And while it's always important to price shop, make sure you're getting the best animals you can for your money. Since you're not looking for just a cute pet, avoid the browned out pastels that are on clearance, the underweight het pied that refuses to eat, etc.

But I think the best advice is really to focus on the morphs that you enjoy. Start it out as a hobby, and if you can turn it into a business from there, then go for it! :-D

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Originally Posted by snake lab

No offense but do you know how many pandas have been produced? I have about 6 grand tied up in that project at this point and no pandas. Or even close. Theres more to that project then just your basic genetics. Trust me.

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yes i know this. I did not once say that it is easy to do. He could get what he needs to try for them for about 1000. The chances are not the best either as ive already said and now for the 3rd time black pastel het pieds will go for a decent amount of money since everyone wants pandas now. He wanted to know what he could get for 1000 and make his money back. He could get a black pastel and a pied for about 1000. Ive seen a panda that was 20k. If he got lucky and produce one then just that would pay off itself but chances arent good

Not to thread jack, but here is my plan if/when I expand my collection for a breeding project (strictly a hobby, if I make some money, cool).

Currently have my male Pastel and I'd like to get 2 Normal females, a Mojave female and a Bee male.