question about vets....

Today since im off, and bored, i decided to pass by this "vet clinic" i seen a few times while coming home from work. So i go in and i ask the lady at the front desk if the good doctor sees reptiles, she was very nice and helpful, she went on to ask me that the vet there does see reptiles and asked me what kind of animal it was, i told her it was a ball python and she says yes thats no problem, then gave me the card of the office and told me if i wanted to do a general check up or what not its 50 dollars, and gave me the web site to there office.

Anyways, i walked away very happy because 1. the place is VERY close to where i live, and 2. i found a vet that deals with reptiles....

Now here is my question, should i not get to excited? I mean this vet sees reptiles but dosent specialize in them or anything (that i know off). What are the things i need to look for to know that if my BP, lord forbid, ever gets sick i can go over there and he will be taken good care of by somebody who knows about BP's.

I mean i dont want to go in there and have the vet say "so what kind of snake is this?"

Well the only way to find out is to either find somebody who takes their ball python to this guy, or pay the $50 for a check up. I did that with my local vet just because I needed to know where I could take my snakes to if something happens. It took me 3 different vets before I found one that I liked (I live in Orlando, Fl so there are a lot of vets within a reasonable distance from my apartment)

http://broadwayanimalhospitalofriver...cket-pets.html

i guess its a good thing the vet is holding a reptile, guess thats a good sign.

Forget about vets who are not specialized in reptiles it will be a waste of time and money try to find a vet that is specialized in reptiles near you using this website http://www.arav.org/ECOMARAV/timssne...t_mdsearch.cfm

You should definitely talk to the vet, ask what meds he would prescribe for various ailments, and see what sort of response you get. It's best to pick a specialist, that know REPTILES, the same way you wouldn't ask a typical dog/cat clinic vet to come out to treat your horse or your pig. Reptiles are even further away than livestock, since it's not even a mammal.

If you talk to any vet, and ask them basic questions like "I'm worried about if he gets a respitory infection... what would you do?" and you get either a blank look, or they brush it off as not a concern OR if they leave the room... find a different vet. Those three responses show either a vet who doesn't know reptiles, or will be blatantly deceptive to you about their lack of knowledge. A vet that leaves the room to answer a question might just be going to find their book or use Google to find the answer. You don't want any vet that doesn't know a respitory infection IS serious, doesn't know how to treat one, or needs to go look up information on something simple.

That's not to say a vet can't go consult about something wrong. But they should have knowledge of simple everyday reptile concerns.

Picking a reptile specialist mostly avoids that type of issue. For any non-specialist, be wary.

Well, when you take your snake to the vet you should look for a few things.
1) How does the vet preform the exam:

An exotic exam should almost mirror that of a companion animal (cat/dog). The vet should palpate your snake, take measurements(weight). check eyes, scales, heat pits, reflex, ectoparasites, etc etc.

2) How meds are prescribed:

Say your snake gets a respiratory infection. If the vet prescribes oral medication, this is an indicator to question them. Many vets who treat reptiles, but do not specialize in them will prescribe oral medication. Snakes have a slow metabolism and oral meds aren't as effective as an injectable. You should ask to take a bacterial culture to find out the specific infection so the vet can treat accordingly instead of giving general antibiotics. Some antibiotics won't work against certain infections. This will save you time and money. Also injections should be given in the front 1/3 of the snake given either intramuscular(IM - in the muscle) or subcutaneous (SQ - under the skin)

what should i bring (besides the snake of course) to the first exam? Do i need to wait until i can get a fecal sample?

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Originally Posted by FrankieCarbone

Do i need to wait until i can get a fecal sample?

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I would

Inject in the front 1/3? The reptile vets at UF always advocate the last 1/3, so there's no chance of hitting things like.. oh say.. lungs? I wouldn't ever advise anyone to be stabbing any needle into a snake's thorax.

I want to point out however, just because they are a "specialist" does NOT always make them the best.

A member here posted just a few days ago about the "specialist" vet screwing things up and the " sees other animals and reptiles" vet having to fix the problem.

The real deciding factor for any vet should be how you are treated when you go there. Does the vet make eye contact ? Ask questions about your pet ? Does he/she answer your questions honestly ? Is the vet in a hurry to rush you from the office ? Or does the vet sit down with you and pay attention to what you have to say ?

You will get a feel pretty quick if the vet is not a good one.

Gale

I wouldn't go to a vet that "sees reptiles" but doesn't specialize in them. I'd look for one that is an expert. If the vet doesn't know what they're doing and your snake gets ill you could end up paying more on treatment because he or she will prescribe things that don't work which means more meds and more visits.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Inject in the front 1/3? The reptile vets at UF always advocate the last 1/3, so there's no chance of hitting things like.. oh say.. lungs? I wouldn't ever advise anyone to be stabbing any needle into a snake's thorax.

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I understand your concerns and see what you mean. But its recommended to give an injection subcutaneous or intramuscular lateral to the spine in the first 1/3. There is no way to stab the lungs unless you really didn't know what you were doing. Needles for either injection don't go very deep.

All reptiles, not just snakes, have a slightly different blood flow than mammals. This can cause some trouble with certain medications. It has been found that the blood flow in the rear part of the body circulates through the kidney and liver before continuing through the rest of the body. This can result in the elimination of medication before it has had a chance to take effect.

For this reason, it is recommended that medication be injected in a part of the body in front of the kidneys.

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I'm a pre-vet student and I'm personally put off a LOT by people's responses to this. I was planning on focussing in small animal (since it's more common, and I do love it) as well as reptiles because there are so few vets. But seeing everyone so easily dismissing someone to took years and years of school to get where they are just because they didn't pick to focus JUST in that area.. that's really putting me off that idea.

I say meet the vet, talk to them, get other's input on their work and THEN make your decision. :] I know many vets who are talented in species other than cats and dogs even though they work in them. If they're truly interested in reptiles then I'd say they most likely have a strong knowledge in them.

I'm pre-vet(exotic) as well and I agree and disagree. I've met vets that can go both ways. Some that do companion animals and reptiles on the side can do a good or bad job. But in my experience, most vets who specialize in companion animals don't always choose the best way to treat reptiles. For example, giving oral medication instead of injectables. Every vet goes through a crash course of all sorts of animals, but probably won't go into depth as a specialty vet will in that field.

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Sorry if you take it amiss, but 90% of vets in a cat/dog clinic will not have enough specialized training in reptiles to safely treat a exotic reptile.

Sure, there will be SOME. But most will not, because they've chosen to focus on cats/dogs.

It's not a dismissal of those vets as VETS. But if they don't know much of anything about REPTILES, then a reptile owner shouldn't be using them. I'm certain that you wouldn't advocate a cattle farmer to suddenly go to a dog/cat clinic with a downed cow with a prolapse, right? I mean, it doesn't mean that vet isn't a great vet who is brilliant with dogs/cats... but he/she might have no clue what the first step would be with a species he/she hasn't seen since vet school, if then.

I don't find being directed to inject a snake in the front 1/3 near the spine at a fairly sharp angle to be off at all either.

Best bet would be to talk to the vet before you even go there. Ask for experience and references. Ask who, if anyone, he/she consults with if they run into a scenario that is not entirely clear cut. If you're not satisfied answers given, look for another vet. Some people have to drive hours to find a good herp vet, others actually ship their reptiles to qualified herp vets. Better off finding a qualified vet before going to see one so not to possibly waste a lot of time and money and run the risk of mistreating your animal.

ok i feel like a tug of war in this, some of you are saying no stay away, others are saying give her a chance, and the rest say dont bother unless its a vet that specialize in exotics.

I dont know what to do here now.

Thanks to Deborah, i did find a vet whos specialty is reptiles, there are some big diffeences though, that vet is farther away, in different borough (in manhatan, i live in the bronx) also finding parking in that area is close to impossible, also they charge 98 dollars for a routine checkup/exam and 200 dollars if i just show up and have a emergency, while the local vet i was talking about earlier is just 50 for a regular exam and is like less than 10 minutes from my house and has there own parking lot.

Now i dont know if i should just completely dismiss the regular vet who sees reptiles, or just go straight for the one who specialty is exotics????

On a side note did u guys see the picture of the vet in the website of the clinic i posted? shes hot.... :oops:

That list that Deborah posted is helpful but don't assume just because they are on that lists makes them a good vet because I personally took my snake to a vet from that list and was very dissapointed. I spend alot of money only to learn that the guy didn't really know his stuff. I ended up doing more research and found a wonderful vet.

Now, the vet that I really liked is what is considered an "all animal" vet and I couldnt be happier with my experience there. They have several vets and certain ones are more knowledgeable than others with reptiles. I'm in Michigan and this vet is Cedar Creek Veterinary in Williamston, MI. Dr. Nolan is the one that did the very extensive surgery on my Mojave and he is doing wonderful. I would highly recommend them for anyone in the MI area.

I did have an almost 2 hour drive but well worth the comfort of knowing my snakes would be well cared for.

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That list that Deborah posted is helpful but don't assume just because they are on that lists makes them a good vet because I personally took my snake to a vet from that list and was very dissapointed.

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ok, now im even more confused on what to do.

I guess the best advise would be to use that list as a guide - you still have to interview your vet and decide what is best for you.

If it were me, I would go to that vet you seen - give them a shot. Go there and get the most for your money - at the initial visit ask them alot of questions, maybe ask for referrals of other snake owners of whom they give care to. You really need to feel comfortable with where you go - and only you can decide that.

Good luck with your search. I know how you feel - I went thru the same thing and went to three different vets before I found the one I trust and like.

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Originally Posted by Misfit

But seeing everyone so easily dismissing someone to took years and years of school to get where they are just because they didn't pick to focus JUST in that area..

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Yes, it is very easy to dismiss someone who didn't focus JUST in the area I need expertise in. Those years and years spent in school are largely irrelevant if it wasn't spent in the area you're are seeking help in. A general practioner spends a long time in school but I would never see one if I needed surgery. That's nothing against the family physician, or his/her education, but I'm going to see a general surgeon to have my appendix removed. Same with a neurologist, GI, dermatologist, etc if I need help with a related problem.

All animals are not the same and the corresponding ailments and treatments vary widely. We take our dogs to a dog and cat only clinic and our reptiles to a different vet in a separate practice that specializes in reptiles. Before I found the rep vet, I had been to three general vets that were unable to satisfactorily treat reptiles. To the OP, your best bet is to make the drive and spend the money on a reptile specialty vet who is more likely to make the correct diagnosis and more importantly, be up to date on the latest treatments.

Thanks for this post, I have been giving some thought to the same subject. I took Jacks to a vet for a preliminary check up, and I thought she did a good job, but I really didn't know what to look for. Now I really think she was a darn fine vet. :)

With out spending any money jot down some of, if not all of the questions and requests asked here. Then go see and talk to the Vet with out the snake to get a feel for them. If you like them set up an appointment and or register with the clinic or hospital, if you don't, no harm, no foul, no money lost and on to the next one.

In the end, its ultimately your decision on which vet to go to. I say give the local vet a chance to see if she really is knowledgeable in reptiles. I know in my situation, local is always the first choice for me. If you're not satisfied, at least you know a vet that is reptile knowledgeable. Or have her consult the reptile vet if any questions rise up.

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Just a few points to clarify some of the things in previous posts.

1) The term reptile specialist has been used in many of the posts. In veterinary medicine there are very strict definitions of what a specialist is. In most cases it requires additional training (2-4 years) after vet school and a rigorous exam. For someone to TRULY be a reptile SPECIALIST they would have to have DABVP (Reptile and Amphibian practice) after their name. This means they are a Diplomate of the American Board of Veterinary Practitioners in the sub specialty of reptile and amphibian medicine. Information on ABVP can be found at www.ABVP.com. This sub specialty was only started in the past few years and so far the exam has been offered twice. So far there are 4 people that are TRULY reptile specialists. Gonna be quite a drive for most people...

2) Most Vets that treat reptiles have an interest in exotics. They will treat reptiles, amphibians, birds, and pocket pets (ferrets, rabbits, etc). Many will also treat dogs and cats. It is not common for someone to ONLY treat reptiles. A good vet is a good vet. They will do a good job with your dog, cat AND snake. If you have someone that is in your area that sees snakes then I would check them out. See how they act around and handle your snake. if you don't feel comfortable with them find someone else.

3) The renal portal system has been debated for years. This is some thing that is base on theory. There are no studies that show different pharmaceutics for drugs given IM in the crainal or caudal muscles.In fact there are studies that show there is no difference. See:
holtz et al. Effect of Injection Site on Carbenicillin Pharmacokinetics in the Carpet Python, Morelia spilota.J Herpetol Med Surg. 2002 Winter;12(4):12-16. 21
holtz et al. The effect of the renal portal system on pharmacokinetic parameters in the red-eared slider (Trachemys scripta elegans). J Zoo Wildl Med 28[4]:386-93
The Reptilian Renal Portal System - A Review- "Current data suggests that the renal portal system does not affect drug kinetics"

4) you can give reptiles oral medications. See:
Coke et al. Preliminary single-dose pharmacokinetics of marbofloxacin in ball pythons (Python regius). J Zoo Wildl Med. 2006 Mar;37(1):6-10
drugs given orally reached therapeudic plasma concentrations in 9hrs. based on this study this drug can be given orally every 48 hours.

5) I would rather see someone look something up than make a mistake. I have a huge collection of textbooks. I certainly don't have everything memorized and I kept the books as a reference...

**Disclaimer** I am a veterinarian but I am NOT a reptile specialist. guess I'm not qualified enough and you can ignore my post.

yeh, you pretty much said what i was thinking, i gonna see my local vet first and see how it goes....

The only vet in our area that deals with reptiles assumed that we were taking horrible care of our Bearded Dragon when she got a Gastrointestinal Infection. I only went to the vet to get the medication, and I had to tell the vet what Aaliyah had. The vet assumed she had impaction...when Aaliyah was on newspaper. She was also very condescending.

The best you can do is go in and see. It sucks if the vet is horrible, but $50 is worth trying to find a good vet. :)

I never said you can't look something up, only that if a vet HAS to go look up information for a simple conversation, instead of offering suggestions of possible treatments, then you have an issue. Especially if it's something very common like a RI in a python.

Even a vet that said, "Well we would treat with a species-appropriate antibiotic..." would be better than one who suddenly makes an excuse, scoots out of the room to go look in a book, then comes back and pretends to know. That's deceitful. I don't expect ANY vet to instantly know/remember exact dosing rates or which drugs might be best for a more rare condition. But I'd like a vet to know basics without having to check google to see if a snake should get ashma meds or baytril when they're wheezing. If I take my cat to a regular vet and he's got to go check his book to see if I should give Tylenol to my feline, I don't want them treating my cat.

Im glad i have the best vet in the country and one of the top in the world. Stahl is the man. Its a shame there are not more around that are great. I guess this may be because theres not a huge market considering not everyone cares enough to seek vet treatment when needed. We do need more good ones out there.

Whew...this thread is making me nervous. I'm taking Cake to a vet tomorrow that does not specialize in reptiles...their reptile vet doesn't get in till Tuesday, and I'm concerned my fecal sample won't be viable by then (It's going on 4 days in the fridge as it is...). She's looking perky right now, and I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't just wait. I really can't afford to waste money on a vet that won't know what to do. :(

One thing you could do, is to contact your local reptile club or Herp society and see what they recommend. They might also have other resources that you could use.