fire safe homemade rack??

So I have been thinking a lot lately about making my own rack and here is my question. Can I....
* make a rack out of cheap wood (as in the cheap particle board bookshelves they sell at walmart) then

* treat the wood with a fire retardant like this http://www.flamestop.com/html/product_guide.html then

*put heat tape on it (belly heat set up) and hook it up to a nice thermostat??

Would this be fire safe?? Would the heat tape work on a fire retardant treated material?? Any other concerns to consider??

Hmmmm....I'm not sure of the toxicity of fire retardant but I would imagine that the safest thing you could possibly do is get melamine (I hear that melamine is pretty fire resistant). I personally wouldn't expose my snakes to DIY treated wood because I'm not a risk taker like that. I might just be crazy though and it could be completely harmless because I don't know too much about what type of product you are going to use to treat the wood.

On a side note: nothing is going to be 100% fire safe; you're always going to have the potential of fire when dealing with the amount of electrical aspects that goes into BPs. But also, in the pursuit of avoiding a pitfall (fire), don't unexpectedly jump into another (poisoning via toxins).

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Originally Posted by RuthlessReptiles

Hmmmm....I'm not sure of the toxicity of fire retardant but I would imagine that the safest thing you could possibly do is get melamine (I hear that melamine is pretty fire resistant). I personally wouldn't expose my snakes to DIY treated wood because I'm not a risk taker like that. I might just be crazy though and it could be completely harmless because I don't know too much about what type of product you are going to use to treat the wood.

On a side note: nothing is going to be 100% fire safe; you're always going to have the potential of fire when dealing with the amount of electrical aspects that goes into BPs. But also, in the pursuit of avoiding a pitfall (fire), don't unexpectedly jump into another (poisoning via toxins).

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yes, i did worry about using a product that is not normally used with snakes so i researched it a bit and came across this in their faq's and since im not using it inside their enclosure i feel comfortable using it.

Are there Bromides or Formaldehyde in any of Flame Stop’s products?

No, since Flame Stop fire retardant and firestop products were invented we have never manufactured a toxic product. While Formaldehyde might be considered non toxic at very low levels, it remains a known Carcinogen and will not be used by Flame Stop. Fire Retardants that contain toxic chemicals give the industry a bad name.

the link to the above paragraph can be found here http://www.flamestop.com/html/faq.html

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Originally Posted by brittani72

yes, i did worry about using a product that is not normally used with snakes so i researched it a bit and came across this in their faq's and since im not using it inside their enclosure i feel comfortable using it.

Are there Bromides or Formaldehyde in any of Flame Stop’s products?

No, since Flame Stop fire retardant and firestop products were invented we have never manufactured a toxic product. While Formaldehyde might be considered non toxic at very low levels, it remains a known Carcinogen and will not be used by Flame Stop. Fire Retardants that contain toxic chemicals give the industry a bad name.

the link to the above paragraph can be found here http://www.flamestop.com/html/faq.html

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Very good researching! I'm impressed. :D

One other question to ask though: Would humidity affect the treatment in a way that would expose your snakes to the possibility of coming into contact with the flame retardant (in it's pre-treated state)?

If no to the above, then by all means, this seems like a safe bet and would serve as a good precaution to fire damage.

I don't know about all that but I asked my dad who works with wood about the fire resistance of melamine and he said the only real way it can catch fire is if it's set to fire, in other words it has to be exposed to flame. It's pretty heat resistant other wise. You should try using melamine. =)

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Originally Posted by RuthlessReptiles

Very good researching! I'm impressed. :D

One other question to ask though: Would humidity affect the treatment in a way that would expose your snakes to the possibility of coming into contact with the flame retardant (in it's pre-treated state)?

If no to the above, then by all means, this seems like a safe bet and would serve as a good precaution to fire damage.

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THAT is a good question.....Maybe I will shoot them a line and see what they say... There is some more information here but it's a little over my head maybe someone else can read it and will be able to answer this question for me??

http://www.flamestop.com/Flame-Stop-II.pdf

Just order a rack from Animal Plastics :)

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Originally Posted by AGoldReptiles

Just order a rack from Animal Plastics :)

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lol i would if i had that kind of money but i'd prefer to use what money i do have on the snakes, not the setup. i am trying to do this for purely financial reasons. :)

heres the only melamine thing i could find without buying a professional rack (and for this price i mind as well) http://www.walmart.com/ip/Whitney-Br...Maple/16530156

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Originally Posted by brittani72

heres the only melamine thing i could find without buying a professional rack (and for this price i mind as well) http://www.walmart.com/ip/Whitney-Br...Maple/16530156

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Building it yourself would be significantly cheaper (about $150-$200 depending and that's overestimating). Pieces of melamine wood can be found at your local Home Depot or Lowes.

All of the "expensive" stuff that comes with racks is usually the heat and the thermostat which wouldn't be included on the rack you get from Walmart anyway.

oh ok i didn't know if/where you could buy melamine wood by itself. well that's definitely something to consider then even tho im not that great at actually building :) i think if my original idea will work tho i will go with that cuz i can get the bookshelf pre built for about $20 and adjust the shelves to whatever size i need them to fit the tubs. thanks tho :D

No problem! Glad we could help. :)

There's a great walk through tutorial on this forum along with many others (this is the one that I found to be easiest to follow): http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Built-My-Rack!

Let us know how it goes and be sure to post pics of your new rack (whichever way you decide to go) once it gets done!! I know I would love to see a tutorial on fire proofing a pre-made rack. ;)

One thing to consider with the flame retardant is that while it may be considered non-toxic on contact in normal conditions (normal use for this product), they probably did not forsee their product being constantly heated on a snake rack. The constant heat may (or may not) release toxic vapors from the retardant.

Many chemicals have low vapor points and may be relatively nontoxic as solids but are much more dangerous as vapors. While it may be safe, I would definitely not use this flame retardant on a heated rack. A PVC rack is the way to go if you are concerned about fire. The cost difference really isn't that much if you are using quality materials in a DIY project.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons

One thing to consider with the flame retardant is that while it may be considered non-toxic on contact in normal conditions (normal use for this product), they probably did not forsee their product being constantly heated on a snake rack. The constant heat may (or may not) release toxic vapors from the retardant.

Many chemicals have low vapor points and may be relatively nontoxic as solids but are much more dangerous as vapors. While it may be safe, I would definitely not use this flame retardant on a heated rack. A PVC rack is the way to go if you are concerned about fire. The cost difference really isn't that much if you are using quality materials in a DIY project.

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I am going to contact the company, tell them exactly what i plan to do and ask LOTS OF QUESTIONS about the actual chemicals used including this question. thanks again for all of your input, i'll keep you guys updated on what they say and what my plans will be from there. :)

If you were using a quality thermostat then I wouldnt worry about the flame retardent stuff. Why expose your snakes to it an risk getting them sick if you dont have to? I mean yea theres a small, small chance your setup could malfunction but if you invest in a quality t-stat I wouldnt worry about it...

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Originally Posted by brittani72

lol i would if i had that kind of money but i'd prefer to use what money i do have on the snakes, not the setup. i am trying to do this for purely financial reasons. :)

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Wrong attitude. Husbandry first ,snake second. Particle board sucks for racks and humidity. Your overthinking trying to make a fire proof rack. Unless you buy a freedom breeder or another metal rack but your tubs will still melt therefore killing your snakes. My best advise is bot to have a fire. Make sure your setup is perfect, your electrical is right and put a snoke detector over the rack. We can learn alot from the pro exotics fire. From what i heard the thought was that the racks were back to back and cause an issue there. Dont know if this is the cause but thats what i heard. Fires are always in the back of my mind but i am very proactive. Im always checkin connections and making sure all heat tape is clear of anything that can spark a fire even though the tape itself doesnt get hot enough to start a fire. Arcing at the connections is where alot of fires start. I have 4 smoke detectors in each snake room so i can know if i have any smoke. I also have fire extinguishers in both rooms as well just in case. It may sound overkill but its worth it to me.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Wrong attitude. Husbandry first ,snake second. Particle board sucks for racks and humidity. Your overthinking trying to make a fire proof rack. Unless you buy a freedom breeder or another metal rack but your tubs will still melt therefore killing your snakes. My best advise is bot to have a fire. Make sure your setup is perfect, your electrical is right and put a snoke detector over the rack. We can learn alot from the pro exotics fire. From what i heard the thought was that the racks were back to back and cause an issue there. Dont know if this is the cause but thats what i heard. Fires are always in the back of my mind but i am very proactive. Im always checkin connections and making sure all heat tape is clear of anything that can spark a fire even though the tape itself doesnt get hot enough to start a fire. Arcing at the connections is where alot of fires start. I have 4 smoke detectors in each snake room so i can know if i have any smoke. I also have fire extinguishers in both rooms as well just in case. It may sound overkill but its worth it to me.

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WHAT?!?! no offense but can you post this again and use spell check? I didn't understand half of it. And what do you mean particle board sucks for racks and humidity?? What specifically sucks about particle board?? First of all, I was under the impression that it has not been done a lot (if ever) before so how would you know that information? Also just out of curiosity, how/why would the material of the rack itself affect humidity? I was planning on relying on substrate, water dish size, and a regular old humidifier near the rack to control humidity. (And monitoring this with a digital hygrometer). And most importantly HOW exactly are my tubs going to melt if I don't buy a freedom breeder rack?! I agree with having my setup perfect and the electrical done correctly but that is a given with any rack right? The smoke detector (and probably fire extinguisher) is also a given. ALSO I'm sorry I'm "overthinking" trying to make a fire proof rack but... well actually no I'm not sorry, I want to make damn sure it's fire proof which is why I want to use the fire retardant in the first place. At this point I am much more concerned with the potential chemicals the product MAY release around my snakes which is why I wrote the head of the company today and am awaiting a full response to all of my questions BEFORE proceeding with my plans.

P.s. your note about husbandry first, snakes later...DUH! If of course you mean acquiring and perfecting the husbandry aspect first before acquiring snakes. BUT if by any chance were suggesting that I need to spend more money on my one rack than any/all snakes that may eventually reside in the rack I'd have to politely disagree.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

If you were using a quality thermostat then I wouldnt worry about the flame retardent stuff. Why expose your snakes to it an risk getting them sick if you dont have to? I mean yea theres a small, small chance your setup could malfunction but if you invest in a quality t-stat I wouldnt worry about it...

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Thanks but I don't plan on taking any risks on the chemical aspect. Their website says that it is toxic free but I am still double checking with the head of the company about the toxicity of their product when used as I plan on using it. I will be 100% sure there is no risk to my snakes before using it. I would definitely not use the particle board without the fire retardant, even with a high quality thermostat. I know it's a very small risk of it malfunctioning but I wouldn't be able to sleep at night thinking about that risk. :) (Of course I can't sleep at night anyway which is why I'm on here at 1am) :/

I'm fairly new here, as are you. I wouldn't go around insulting people. I mean, maybe they were just in a hurry and didn't care about their spelling? You are not the grammar police and you shouldn't criticize people based on spelling. If you couldn't understand what he was saying then I feel bad for you. It was not that hard to figure out. He was just trying to give you advice. If you took it the wrong way, well then that just too bad. =(

I would take every precaution to make sure there would not be a fire, but IMO using fire retardant may not be the best choice around the snakes (or any other pet for that matter). I would just go for buying melamine and building your own rack. Like I said before, my dad said it can only really catch fire if it's set a blaze. He's been working with wood since he was 16.

Hope you can figure out what to do.

Honestly, I don't think anything is 100% fireproof when it comes to electrical and heating elements. All you can do is be alert and vigilant. Make sure to maintain and monitor your rack system. Even though the rack itself could be 'fireproof', doesn't mean your tubs aren't susceptible to melting. A good thermostat will prevent burning a snake and tub melting.

Although I have heard that pvc board is fire retardant...

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Originally Posted by AmysAnimals

I'm fairly new here, as are you. I wouldn't go around insulting people. I mean, maybe they were just in a hurry and didn't care about their spelling? You are not the grammar police and you shouldn't criticize people based on spelling. If you couldn't understand what he was saying then I feel bad for you. It was not that hard to figure out. He was just trying to give you advice. If you took it the wrong way, well then that just too bad. =(

I would take every precaution to make sure there would not be a fire, but IMO using fire retardant may not be the best choice around the snakes (or any other pet for that matter). I would just go for buying melamine and building your own rack. Like I said before, my dad said it can only really catch fire if it's set a blaze. He's been working with wood since he was 16.

Hope you can figure out what to do.

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I probably was being offensive but I don't appreciate being spoken down to new or not. I understand perfectly well that melamine is what is generally used to build racks and I understand why. I want to try something different and I am trying to get opinions on potential and specific concerns with my idea, not just a general "I wouldn't do that if I were you but I have no reason to offer as to why". Again no offense meant but I'm not really looking for opinions on how you or anyone else would build a rack, what I want to know pertains to THIS plan that I have laid out. I am all for tradition on most things but I am having a real issue discarding my idea because that simply isn't how it is usually done. I also truly believe that your dad probably knows all there is to know about wood which brings me to another point of mine, you said that the only way for melamine to catch fire is if it is set ablaze right?? The fire retardant that I want to use, when applied properly WILL NOT catch fire when held directly in a flame. Any flame that appears on the treated surface will go out within seconds.

Ok let me start over even though I am not doing anything yet until I hear back from the fire retardant company.

I want to treat a particle board bookshelf with fire retardant.

The fire retardant and all it's information can be found here. http://www.flamestop.com/

From here everything else will be set up as "normal", there will be heat tape installed (belly heat style) by a professional (not me), there will be a good thermostat (probably a herpstat 4) there will be plastic tubs. There will be digital thermometer/hygrometers in EACH tub (cuz I'm paranoid like that)

I will also have a humidifier near the set up, a smoke alarm in the room and possibly a fire extinguisher too.

I CONTACTED THE COMPANY WITH ALL OF MY QUESTIONS AND I AM AWAITING A RESPONSE. IF THEY TELL ME THAT NO VAPORS WILL BE RELEASED WHAT-SO-EVER UNTIL 160 DEGREES (which is what the first email response I got said but this is assuming normal use of the product), IF THEY TELL ME THAT THEIR PRODUCT CAN BE HEATED 24/7 UP TO 100 DEGREES WITHOUT RELEASING ANY VAPORS AND STILL BE EFFECTIVE, IF THEY TELL ME THAT THIS PRODUCT WILL CONTINUE TO WORK AS IT IS SUPPOSED TO UNDER THESE CONDITIONS, THEN AND ONLY THEN, I WILL PROCEED WITH MY PLANS.

If anyone has any specific concerns with this plan, please post them. I am posting this to try to make sure there isn't an aspect I haven't thought of yet. Thank you.

oh and also thank you satomi325 for your response. I do plan on using a good thermostat. The previous poster had mentioned something about tubs melting if I didn't buy a metal rack (at least that is what I got out of it) you said a thermostat would prevent this so basically melting tubs would not be a concern/issue with a thermostat right?? I do also agree that unfortunately no rack is 100% fire proof but I do want to give it my best effort, and I want it to be as equally "fire proof" as a professionally built rack.

IMO Wood sucks for keeping reptiles in...Humidity/water and wood don't mix!!! Even Melamine will fall apart over time from the moisture!

Check out Boaphile Racks...They are made from self extinguishing Polyethylene and will last a lifetime...

http://www.boaphileplastics.com/rhino.html

You could always build a rack to include the tub covers. This helps extend the life of the rack and there's no need to worry about humidity or moisture.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Sounds like a pointless risk (chemical) to your snakes. Once the plastic tubs are put on the rack, it will no longer be fire resistant, irrelevant to what chemicals or materials are used to make the rack.

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

IMO Wood sucks for keeping reptiles in...Humidity/water and wood don't mix!!! Even Melamine will fall apart over time from the moisture!

Check out Boaphile Racks...They are made from self extinguishing Polyethylene and will last a lifetime...

http://www.boaphileplastics.com/rhino.html

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Here's another vote from a veteran..
WOOD SUCKS FOR REPTILE CAGES! We will never recommend it here. You were not being talked down to. Not in my opinion. We look out for the animals here.

Also... Take a look at your keyboard.. Phone, computer, whatever.. Most of those "spelling" mistakes were a simple case of hitting the key right next to the one actually needed for that word... I'm sure you've done it. We all have.

I personally would not take the risk with introducing something like that when your talking about something that COULD produce something that could hard my snake even if the company tells me it won't. It's not their job to know if it will harm my reptiles only that it will resist fire.

If you are getting the flex watt wired professionally and using a thermostat. Then you are about as likely I start a fire as your computer running all day or your fridge. No one is saying that you can't come up with something new. People are just saying that why introduce something that could harm your snake.

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Originally Posted by brittani72

WHAT?!?! no offense but can you post this again and use spell check? I didn't understand half of it. And what do you mean particle board sucks for racks and humidity?? What specifically sucks about particle board?? First of all, I was under the impression that it has not been done a lot (if ever) before so how would you know that information? Also just out of curiosity, how/why would the material of the rack itself affect humidity? I was planning on relying on substrate, water dish size, and a regular old humidifier near the rack to control humidity. (And monitoring this with a digital hygrometer). And most importantly HOW exactly are my tubs going to melt if I don't buy a freedom breeder rack?! I agree with having my setup perfect and the electrical done correctly but that is a given with any rack right? The smoke detector (and probably fire extinguisher) is also a given. ALSO I'm sorry I'm "overthinking" trying to make a fire proof rack but... well actually no I'm not sorry, I want to make damn sure it's fire proof which is why I want to use the fire retardant in the first place. At this point I am much more concerned with the potential chemicals the product MAY release around my snakes which is why I wrote the head of the company today and am awaiting a full response to all of my questions BEFORE proceeding with my plans.

P.s. your note about husbandry first, snakes later...DUH! If of course you mean acquiring and perfecting the husbandry aspect first before acquiring snakes. BUT if by any chance were suggesting that I need to spend more money on my one rack than any/all snakes that may eventually reside in the rack I'd have to politely disagree.

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First off you obviouslly arent understanding. I will go slow. Particle board suck with humidity because the humidity cause from your bin will soak into any bare wood. This is why melamine is the best wood based product for racks. Trust me. Ive been building racks and working with snakes since the 90s. Ive tried it all and learned from my own mistakes. As far as using a fire retardant material its pointless. The reason its not used is because its a chemical that can potentially harm your animal. Otherwise it would be common place for people to use it. And on another note what good is fireproofing your rack? Do you think this will stop the snakes from smoke inhalation? Im sure your gonna have the head of the chemical company be able to tell you if their product is safe for snakes lmao really? Come on think about it. If you do the steps to not have a fire and are proactive then you shouldnt have a problem. And as far as cost of your rack versus cost of animals your crazy. If you care about the animals then dont shortcut them. Provide a good enclosure. Making them a rack out of crap materials just to save a couple bucks says alot for your plans with your animals. Your comment about this product has never been used before says it all. Its because its not a good idea. Do you think your an innovator? Are you the first person to think of this? Doubt it. Im sure its been thought of but its not good to introduce chemicals to your animals that are potentially dangerous to them. And just a side note on spell check. I apoligize if you couldnt read my original post. I am typing on my phone. Small keyboard fat fingers what can i say.

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Originally Posted by brittani72

The previous poster had mentioned something about tubs melting if I didn't buy a metal rack (at least that is what I got out of it) you said a thermostat would prevent this so basically melting tubs would not be a concern/issue with a thermostat right?? I do also agree that unfortunately no rack is 100% fire proof but I do want to give it my best effort, and I want it to be as equally "fire proof" as a professionally built rack.

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You have MORE items at risk of fire than just the rack.
Rarely do Lab and I agree on anything LOL
You can have the rack coated in anything you want BUT should your flex-a-watt short out then you will have a fire. Nothing in life is 100% fire proof regardless of what you want to think, even metal burns when hot enough;)
Any yes, housing is first priority when finances are concerned.

Keep in mind you are posting on a PUBLIC forum and will almost always get answers you dont like or want to hear. This is part of life too. I didnt read anything wrong with his post either.

Unsealed wood SUCKS for keeping in humidity, all of my racks are home build MDF that will waste away in about a year or so but by then I should be able to start on XPVC.;)

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Originally Posted by snake lab

First off you obviouslly arent understanding. I will go slow. Particle board suck with humidity because the humidity cause from your bin will soak into any bare wood. This is why melamine is the best wood based product for racks

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building them to run with the lids on helps out 100% BUT its a pita too;):D

Britt,
You asked for oppinions. Thats all i was offering. An oppinion based on experience. Any bare wood is bad. The reason melamine is used is because its coated so it will last longer. It isnt foolproof. It will break down over time but does last a long time. The best racks for the money are plastics. My point about freedom breeders wasnt that they wont let your tubs melt. My point was that they would be the most fire proof rack considering your rack fire risk is not at the flexwatt. Its at the connections. Flexwatt doesnt get hot enough to start a fire. Electrical arcing at the the connections is where its usually going to happen thus melting the plastic clips and starting the fire. If your connections are right, a good thermostat is in place then you should not have any issues. When you ask for advice i would think you want advice from people that have experience with the topic. Just cause you didnt get the answers you expected isnt a reason to go on the attack cause i was in no way trying to attack what you were saying. Im simply trying to steer you in a better direction with a setup youll be happy with.

Britt:

You have to understand that some people are blunt in their question answering and you shouldn't take offense because most of the time, none was implied. Try not to take suggestions so personal, even if they are worded a bit harsh and can be taken in the wrong way. Snake Lab really did give you valuable information in his post and, coming from a grammar nazi, shouldn't be criticized for his misspellings and errors.

http://youtu.be/0uaClHZVvD0

ok i am sorry but the first few responses i received on this thread were not only supportive but helpful in pointing out issues i should take into consideration. i was caught off guard with your post flat out dismissing my plans, and i really couldn't see what the problem was with it.

I do know that I have researched this product quite a bit, and I am not sure if you guys have or not but I have found out that not only is it resistant to fire, but it is also resistant to water, bacteria, fungus, mold, insects, and rodents.

I realize that I cannot make a 100% fire proof rack, I was just trying to build a rack that is as equally fire safe as a professionally built rack. I am on here asking you guys and researching this product endlessly because I DO care about my snakes. I don't expect the company to be able to tell me if their product is safe with snakes I expect them to be able to tell me exactly what chemicals if any are released from their product and in what conditions this release happens (ie what temps). So far I have found out that the chemical that stops a fire is released at 160 degrees but this is with normal use. I expect them to to be able to tell me if this holds true when their product is heated constantly 24/7 to 100 degrees. If the product is not activated until 160 degrees, and no chemicals are released before that point, I really don't see the risk that keeps being mentioned, maybe you can help me out with that. Maybe you see something I don't on the chemical aspect. This is why I am posting, to find out if you see something I don't.

Again I realize that while the rack may be fireproofed, the connections on the heat tape may not be, I understand this, I just don't see how it pertains to me more than the next guy. Isn't this true with ANY rack using heat tape? Or am I missing something?? Does something about this particular set up increase this risk??

Also I am gathering that some of you think the fire retardant may not be necessary, Is it really true that heat tape cannot get hot enough to cause a fire?? Could this work without the heat tape (excluding the humidity factor)?? Would it be safe to use the bookshelf, some heat tape, tubs and a thermostat??

As far as the humidity goes, I know that the wood wouldn't last forever being in a room with 50-60% humidity 24/7 but I don't really expect it to.

I don't want to argue about the cost of rack vs cost of snakes but I really do not appreciate being made out as someone who doesn't give a :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: about the snakes or their well being. Would I even be on here if I didn't care?? Why wouldn't I just do whatever I want with no research or questions to you guys?? I have one more question...are you honestly telling me that ALL of you, EVERYONE who cares about their snakes, spent more money on the setup than the snakes in it?? I just don't understand this. If an Animal Plastics rack costs around $125 with heat (model 1851(4)) and a decent thermostat costs around $140 for a herpstat 1 (http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html), you are telling me that all the snakes in the theoretical rack cost less than $265???

Only way to have a rack survive a fire is be made of a Dense Steel that dissipates heat fast.

But even with the best heat resistant racks, the immense heat will still kill the snakes.

here is some information from their website

Flame Stop I is a water-based, post-treatment interior fire
retardant that penetrates the material and bonds with the cellular
structure. The penetrant protects the substrate by developing a
self-extinguishing reaction when the treated material comes in
contact with an open flame.

Flame Stop I was formulated with the
user in mind because it is non-toxic, non-combusƟble,
non-carcinogenic, easy to apply, and contains no PDBEs.

Are there Bromides or Formaldehyde in any of Flame Stop’s products?
No, since Flame Stop fire retardant and firestop products were invented we have never manufactured a toxic product. While Formaldehyde might be considered non toxic at very low levels, it remains a known Carcinogen and will not be used by Flame Stop. Fire Retardants that contain toxic chemicals give the industry a bad name.



The ONLY reason I wanted to use this stuff is because I was worried about the safety of having heat tape directly on wood. I am not planning on it protecting my snakes if a fire started somewhere outside the rack, that is not my intent and as far a I know impossible. I just don't want the rack to be the thing that STARTS a fire (with the heat tape sitting on wood) Of course if it is true that heat tape cannot get hot enough to start a fire when installed on wood then all of this is irrelevant and I will build the rack as planned without the flame retardant.

btw the company got back to me and this was his response.

Brittani the product in question FSII to be applied to raw wood is not toxic
and at these low (100 deg ) temps will not off gas or be injurious to these
beings . Thanks Bruce


so much for thorough...my email to him was about 2 pages :)

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Originally Posted by Maixx

Sounds like a pointless risk (chemical) to your snakes. Once the plastic tubs are put on the rack, it will no longer be fire resistant, irrelevant to what chemicals or materials are used to make the rack.

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why?

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Originally Posted by brittani72

why?

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I believe that he means that once the tubs are in there they are the weakest link that if you were to have a short from the flex watt the plastic would go.

I will say that I am just starting out keeping multiple snakes. And I have made my own rack which I did not spend much on. I used wood I had here and most that was spent was for the flex watt and the thermostat. I am working on another to hold 28qt since my little ones are getting bigger the thing with the flex watt is you want to put foil tape down and then put the flex watt on top it does two things. 1. It keeps the tape directly off the wood. 2. It projects the heat upward so that the heat is not wasted.

That being said as long as your flex watt is properly wired and connected to a thermostat there is about as much chance of it catching fire as your fridge or computer or any other electronics in your house. Can it happen? Yes any of those things I said could start a fire that's why you need to make sure that you check on anything that you think is out of the normal and have your smoke detectors in place just like you would if you didn't have the snakes.

I hope this helps and does not come across as anything else but trying to help.

Britt. You said that you only wanted to use this because you were worried about the heat tape directlly on the wood. Flexwatt itself doesnt get hot enough to start a fire. Paper catches fire at around 420 degrees or higher. Wood catches fire hotter then that. There is no way flexwatt can get that hot. You have nothing to worry about in that regard. Electrical malfunctions cause most fires.

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Originally Posted by mattb

I believe that he means that once the tubs are in there they are the weakest link that if you were to have a short from the flex watt the plastic would go.

I will say that I am just starting out keeping multiple snakes. And I have made my own rack which I did not spend much on. I used wood I had here and most that was spent was for the flex watt and the thermostat. I am working on another to hold 28qt since my little ones are getting bigger the thing with the flex watt is you want to put foil tape down and then put the flex watt on top it does two things. 1. It keeps the tape directly off the wood. 2. It projects the heat upward so that the heat is not wasted.

That being said as long as your flex watt is properly wired and connected to a thermostat there is about as much chance of it catching fire as your fridge or computer or any other electronics in your house. Can it happen? Yes any of those things I said could start a fire that's why you need to make sure that you check on anything that you think is out of the normal and have your smoke detectors in place just like you would if you didn't have the snakes.

I hope this helps and does not come across as anything else but trying to help.

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what kind of wood did you use??

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Britt. You said that you only wanted to use this because you were worried about the heat tape directlly on the wood. Flexwatt itself doesnt get hot enough to start a fire. Paper catches fire at around 420 degrees or higher. Wood catches fire hotter then that. There is no way flexwatt can get that hot. You have nothing to worry about in that regard. Electrical malfunctions cause most fires.

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awesome thanks!! so this being true what are the benefits of using melamine over particle board?? As of right now, I don't plan on using melamine if the only benefit of it vs regular particle board is that it's more fire resistant. It seems to me that if the flexwatt cannot catch the rack on fire, then it doesn't really matter whether the rack is flammable or not because if a fire were to start from a loose connection or something then fireproof rack or not my snakes would die.

I am sorry I did not see this before as I see now that so many of you were trying to tell me this. (when you were mentioning melting tubs I thought you meant from the flexwatt getting too hot) When looking at racks I kept coming across the fire resistant issue such as use melamine it's fire resistant, or use metal, or whatever. This is why I automatically assumed that the flexwatt could catch the rack on fire and a fire resistant rack was necessary to prevent this. Wow I feel like an idiot this whole post could've been avoided if I wasn't under the impression that the heat from flexwatt could catch my rack on fire.

So one more time why melamine??

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Originally Posted by brittani72

awesome thanks!! so this being true what are the benefits of using melamine over particle board?? As of right now, I don't plan on using melamine if the only benefit of it vs regular particle board is that it's more fire resistant. It seems to me that if the flexwatt cannot catch the rack on fire, then it doesn't really matter whether the rack is flammable or not because if a fire were to start from a loose connection or something then fireproof rack or not my snakes would die.

I am sorry I did not see this before as I see now that so many of you were trying to tell me this. (when you were mentioning melting tubs I thought you meant from the flexwatt getting too hot) When looking at racks I kept coming across the fire resistant issue such as use melamine it's fire resistant, or use metal, or whatever. This is why I automatically assumed that the flexwatt could catch the rack on fire and a fire resistant rack was necessary to prevent this. Wow I feel like an idiot this whole post could've been avoided if I wasn't under the impression that the heat from flexwatt could catch my rack on fire.

So one more time why melamine??

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No need to feel like an idiot. This is why questions were invented lol. The reason melamine is the standard use of wood based racks is because its coated. It is a synthetic polymer coating that is fire resistant and tolerates heat. The benefit is that as humidity builds in your rack from the tubs it doesnt allow the humidity to affect the wood. It does hold up well but you have to be careful when screwing it together. But once you get it built it is solid. Its 3/4 inch and very sturdy. And its cheaper then buying a rack. The down side on melamine is it is very heavy so i advise caster wheels on the bottom so it can be moved around. Now you can find some pretty affordable racks out there too. I personally like vision racks. I also have freedom breeders but i got a good deal on them thats why i bought em. I do still have a couple melamine racks that ive had for years and they are still holdin up good. Depending on how many snakes you have and how many you plan to have its a good idea to have a rack big enough to handle what you plan on working with long term. The biggest most important part of your rack for sure is a good thermostat. I like helix myself but i also use johnsons on some of my racks.

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Originally Posted by brittani72

what kind of wood did you use??

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I am using 3/8 good one side plywood and 2x2 for my shelves and then 1/2 in good one side for the sides and back. The first rack I built that I am using right now is just parts from old cabinets that I had.

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Originally Posted by brittani72

I realize that I cannot make a 100% fire proof rack, I was just trying to build a rack that is as equally fire safe as a professionally built rack.

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I am not trying to be the southern end of a north bound donkey BUT............... I see you keep posting this and really there is no difference. Look wise yes but that is it and I have seen many home builts posted here that look way better.

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Originally Posted by brittani72

why?

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The particle board will soak up the water from the humidity in the air.It will warp, it will sag and your tubs will no longer fit correctly.

sent from my EVO

The other problem I have with wood is you can't really disinfect it...I clean the insides (especially the ceiling) of my plastic racks with disinfectant when I clean tubs...

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

The other problem I have with wood is you can't really disinfect it...I clean the insides (especially the ceiling) of my plastic racks with disinfectant when I clean tubs...

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That's very true. Anything not "sealed" with a lineaments of some kind like melamine is would prove problematic to keep clean I would think, especially if you're not using lids on your tubs.