What goes down with killing and constricting?

So the other day I watched a video on youtube of a BP killing and constricting a fat mouse. The thing that made my stomach turn and question if I could do this is when the BP caught the mouse and constricted it blood came out of the nose and mouth. I was wondering if this is normal? If it is I don't think I can feed live, like I wanted to. Also, is it normal for the mouse/rat to scream when being attacked (stupid question but I need to be sure).

My moms friend had a boa when they were younger and she said she never remembers blood when feeding the snake.

I've never seen blood come out before, but I can see how it could happen. It certainly isn't "normal"

As for the rodent screaming, it really depends on the rodent, some do some don't

I really suggest that you buy frozen, it costs less and it seems at least to me to be "easier".

I want to buy frozen but I can't put it in the freezer. That is the only problem. lol I live with my whole family still and they can't stand the thought of a dead animal in the freezer. I might be able to get a separate freezer but I do not know where I would put it. That's another problem.

Plus, in my mind I think it's beneficial for the snake to have a hunt and live kill. So I can tough out whatever comes with the snake killing the rodent.

I only feed live and yes occasionally there will be blood out of the mouth, and occasionally there will be squealing. But most of the time there won't be blood. And the squealing when it does happen doesn't last long.

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Originally Posted by AmysAnimals

I want to buy frozen but I can't put it in the freezer. That is the only problem. lol I live with my whole family still and they can't stand the thought of a dead animal in the freezer. I might be able to get a separate freezer but I do not know where I would put it. That's another problem.

Plus, in my mind I think it's beneficial for the snake to have a hunt and live kill. So I can tough out whatever comes with the snake killing the rodent.

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I use to have the same mindset as well, but then one of my snakes got a nasty bite from a rodent (I was watching it, I just couldn't stop it in time) after that feeding day was nerve racking and eventually I just decided that the benefits (if any) of feeding live were outweighed by the safety factor of frozen.

I can understand your freezer problem, but there may be another option. Most of the local reptile shops I've been to that sell rodents will humanly kill the rodents for you. I did this for awhile and it worked out great.

I have seen the blood from the face before, and I am not a huge fan of the eyes bulging from the pressure. Depending on how the snake grabs it and the individual rodent's reaction, some will scream and some wont. Most of the time when I hear a scream its more of a quick short burst, but if the snake has a bad grab it can last longer.

If these are things you are uncomfortable with, and you can get your snake to take frozen, this will be a much easier option for you :) another thing to keep in mind too, while feeding live is you need to be there to help your snake out to avoid injuries. Its rarely an issue, and I have been amazed with how snakes can flex their body with teeth on them to avoid being punctured, but you need to be willing and able to step in and physically adjust that squealing rodent if it happens to grab your snake.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I use to have the same mindset as well, but then one of my snakes got a nasty bite from a rodent (I was watching it, I just couldn't stop it in time) after that feeding day was nerve racking and eventually I just decided that the benefits (if any) of feeding live were outweighed by the safety factor of frozen.

I can understand your freezer problem, but there may be another option. Most of the local reptile shops I've been to that sell rodents will humanly kill the rodents for you. I did this for awhile and it worked out great.

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It will be a little awkward asking my reptile shop that but I will. lol The only thing is I don't want to have to go back every single week. The only GOOD reptile shop is about 20-30 minutes away and I don't want to have to drive all that way for one rodent, when I can get 5 and last five weeks alive. This is complicated. hmmm I don't want the snake getting bitten but I know I will keep my eyes wide when feeding, but those rats can be quick when biting. =( I'll see what I can do.

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

I have seen the blood from the face before, and I am not a huge fan of the eyes bulging from the pressure. Depending on how the snake grabs it and the individual rodent's reaction, some will scream and some wont. Most of the time when I hear a scream its more of a quick short burst, but if the snake has a bad grab it can last longer.

If these are things you are uncomfortable with, and you can get your snake to take frozen, this will be a much easier option for you :) another thing to keep in mind too, while feeding live is you need to be there to help your snake out to avoid injuries. Its rarely an issue, and I have been amazed with how snakes can flex their body with teeth on them to avoid being punctured, but you need to be willing and able to step in and physically adjust that squealing rodent if it happens to grab your snake.

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I would definitely be attentive and ready to take action if something were to go wrong with live feeding. I know that I wouldn't want anything to happen to my snake.

^ Would it be out of the question to have a solid colored opaque Tupperware container in the freezer to have the mice in? That way no one will have to see them and they will be in their own little enclosed space away from the people food.

I just have to say that I really don't think there is any psychological benefit to the snake to eat live. The vast majority of f/t eaters still strike and constrict, therefore they don't really know that it is already dead. Mine eats strictly f/t and she gets into "hunt" mode as soon as I start defrosting and she smells it in the room, and when the prey is dangling from the feeding tongs, she is in full on predator mode and she is SERIOUS when she strikes, often the tail will break off in my tongs she hits so hard. In my opinion, the only time a snake should be fed live is if it absolutely refuses f/t or pre-killed (and some do), or if it is some way more convenient for the keeper, as in they breed the rodents themselves. But it is for sure a more complicated process. Rats are mean. They can bite you, they can bite the snake, even kill the snake if you walked away for a few minutes and the rat got the upper hand.

If your family cannot tolerate rodents in the freezer, then you may fall into the "more convenient for the keeper" category. I am glad my girl takes f/t because feeding live would bother me. I mean, if I HAD to for the snake, I would, but I would rather not. It doesn't bother me AT ALL in a natural setting, I love watching snakes kill things on nature shows, or even in the wild. But to me, nature is a game with winners and losers, and sometimes, the rodent looses. But when you put a rodent in a box with a snake, the deck is kind of stacked. I don't think it is morally wrong for the people who feed live to do it, AT ALL, but for me personally, I would feel like I sentenced an animal to death without it having a fighting chance. I would rather pull one out of the freezer that was killed quickly and painlessly rather than giving it a terrifying death. Just my two cents. It is ultimately up to the individual keeper, there is no wrong answer. My point is, don't make stimulation for the snake your only reason, which it isn't, it's a freezer issue. I am just saying that the snake will be mentally fine if you feed f/t, and the benefits are, in my opinion, far greater for everyone: snake, rat, and you. :)

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Originally Posted by AmysAnimals

It will be a little awkward asking my reptile shop that but I will. lol The only thing is I don't want to have to go back every single week. The only GOOD reptile shop is about 20-30 minutes away and I don't want to have to drive all that way for one rodent, when I can get 5 and last five weeks alive. This is complicated. hmmm I don't want the snake getting bitten but I know I will keep my eyes wide when feeding, but those rats can be quick when biting. =( I'll see what I can do.

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You can easily and cheaply set up a CO2 chamber to euthanize the rodent before feeding. It is quick and humane. That way you have the benefits of getting 5 live at a time and no freezer occupants but do not have to watch your snake feed live if it bothers you.

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Originally Posted by AmysAnimals

So the other day I watched a video on youtube of a BP killing and constricting a fat mouse. The thing that made my stomach turn and question if I could do this is when the BP caught the mouse and constricted it blood came out of the nose and mouth. I was wondering if this is normal? If it is I don't think I can feed live, like I wanted to. Also, is it normal for the mouse/rat to scream when being attacked (stupid question but I need to be sure).

My moms friend had a boa when they were younger and she said she never remembers blood when feeding the snake.

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You could buy a new or used small "cube/dorm refrigerator" and turn the cold all the way up and it will become a 'freezer'.

They also have a separate area inside that is a freezer, already and you could store the frozen rodents in there.

Two of my BPs refuse F/T and I just went through a month and half of misery because one of them had a bad strike and the mouse scratched the ****ens out of the snake.

I had to go back to square one and offer tiny helpless baby mice to 'rebuild his confidence'.

Nothing is more pitiful than an obviously snake who won't eat 'dead' but is terrified of 'live'.

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Originally Posted by Salamander

They also have a separate area inside that is a freezer, already and you could store the frozen rodents in there.

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The only problem with this is that those little compartments can't actually freeze anything. Mine that I had took two days to freeze water into ice cubes and it certainly couldn't keep frozen things frozen. It's bad enough for ice cream, I can't imagine a dead rat in there.

I would make it a dedicated freezer and not just try and use part of the fridge as a freezer. You can buy small chest freezers for about the same cost as a mini fridge. (~$100- $150 new from Target) This will be my route as I am also not allowed to keep frozen rodents in the main freezer (which is silly because we have frozen steaks and such in there as well). :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by AmysAnimals

It will be a little awkward asking my reptile shop that but I will. lol The only thing is I don't want to have to go back every single week. The only GOOD reptile shop is about 20-30 minutes away and I don't want to have to drive all that way for one rodent, when I can get 5 and last five weeks alive. This is complicated. hmmm I don't want the snake getting bitten but I know I will keep my eyes wide when feeding, but those rats can be quick when biting. =( I'll see what I can do.

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You could buy live, and then kill the rodents yourself. It doesn't have to be gruesome or traumatizing for you. You just put your rodent in a sack and then WHACK it really hard on a counter top, or the ground. It dies instantly, and your snake has a fresh meal.
I have been buying frozen, but was considering doing this.

mine will only eat live. in my opinion, it's what they do best... kill and eat :)

i feed mine mice and gerbils and the odd rat. some bleed, some don't, some squeal and some don't. last feeding, i could hear a faint cracking sound... i assume it was the gerbils bones but don't know for sure. some feeding are not for the faint of heart ;)

I have never seen blood. They do usually let out a short little scream. You do have to watch when feeding, but we have never had a problem. It's amazing how fast the snake is. You worry about them, but they really do know what they are doing.

Is your family vegetarian? If yes, then I suppose they can still have their argument. Otherwise, they likely already have prekilled animals stacked up in their freezer. It really is convenient to feed frozen. Here is a nice site: Frozen Feeders
. If they will not take the frozen, putting it under a hot lamp for 30 seconds to get it above root temp and using tongs to dance the mouse/rat 2 inches in front of him or her should do the trick.

Though this is an extreme case that many are familiar with it doesn't hurt to be reminded of the real dangers (other than mites...mites which may carry IBD) portrayed in this horrific post.

I strongly suggest you do feed frozen. It may be natural for them to eat live but being captive is not natural so rules do change.

"If you want a rush try holding a thawed prey item in front of that animal in a pair of hemostats or tongs. The snake/reptile will rip the prey out of your holding utensil. It never fails to give me an adrenaline rush."

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Originally Posted by Emily Hubbard

I just have to say that I really don't think there is any psychological benefit to the snake to eat live. The vast majority of f/t eaters still strike and constrict, therefore they don't really know that it is already dead. Mine eats strictly f/t and she gets into "hunt" mode as soon as I start defrosting and she smells it in the room, and when the prey is dangling from the feeding tongs, she is in full on predator mode and she is SERIOUS when she strikes, often the tail will break off in my tongs she hits so hard. In my opinion, the only time a snake should be fed live is if it absolutely refuses f/t or pre-killed (and some do), or if it is some way more convenient for the keeper, as in they breed the rodents themselves. But it is for sure a more complicated process. Rats are mean. They can bite you, they can bite the snake, even kill the snake if you walked away for a few minutes and the rat got the upper hand.

If your family cannot tolerate rodents in the freezer, then you may fall into the "more convenient for the keeper" category. I am glad my girl takes f/t because feeding live would bother me. I mean, if I HAD to for the snake, I would, but I would rather not. It doesn't bother me AT ALL in a natural setting, I love watching snakes kill things on nature shows, or even in the wild. But to me, nature is a game with winners and losers, and sometimes, the rodent looses. But when you put a rodent in a box with a snake, the deck is kind of stacked. I don't think it is morally wrong for the people who feed live to do it, AT ALL, but for me personally, I would feel like I sentenced an animal to death without it having a fighting chance. I would rather pull one out of the freezer that was killed quickly and painlessly rather than giving it a terrifying death. Just my two cents. It is ultimately up to the individual keeper, there is no wrong answer. My point is, don't make stimulation for the snake your only reason, which it isn't, it's a freezer issue. I am just saying that the snake will be mentally fine if you feed f/t, and the benefits are, in my opinion, far greater for everyone: snake, rat, and you. :)

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Thanks for your input. I used to own five rats. They are not mean. They are one of the sweetest animals you can own. To me, they are like miniature dogs. But I can see where they would want to bite the predator as it's trying to attack. I can't see it wanting to bite a human though. The only time I have EVER been bitten by a rat was when I was a child and didn't know any better and tried to take one of a female rats babies from her and she bit me. Yes, I still have the scar but that didn't stop me from loving these animals.

I have no problem feeding the snake rats because I know it is what they eat and I know it's the circle of life.

I have time to figure out what I am going to do though. The reptile store said they pre-kill. But I don't want to keep going back.

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Originally Posted by MikeJuggles

You could buy live, and then kill the rodents yourself. It doesn't have to be gruesome or traumatizing for you. You just put your rodent in a sack and then WHACK it really hard on a counter top, or the ground. It dies instantly, and your snake has a fresh meal.
I have been buying frozen, but was considering doing this.

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That's sick. Would you want to die that way. What if they didn't die? What if they were still alive and suffering?!

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You can easily and cheaply set up a CO2 chamber to euthanize the rodent before feeding. It is quick and humane.

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now this im interested in. How do u make something like that?

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Originally Posted by FrankieCarbone

now this im interested in. How do u make something like that?

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The easiest way to set up a CO2 chamber is to get a cooler and a small container like a small critter keeper. Make sure the critter keeper fits inside the cooler with a bit of room to spare. You put the rodent in the critter keeper and place that in the cooler. You put several pieces of dry ice in the cooler and close the lid. The dry ice gives off Carbon dioxide. The rodents go to sleep and asphixiate. Quick and painless - dead rodent in less than 3min.
:gj:

where does one buy dry ice? i live in nyc.

There is a place on Astoria Blvd that sells dry ice, its near the triboro bridge if you're in Queens. I don't know of any other places but I'm sure there are throughout the city, just have to search for some.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

The only problem with this is that those little compartments can't actually freeze anything. Mine that I had took two days to freeze water into ice cubes and it certainly couldn't keep frozen things frozen. It's bad enough for ice cream, I can't imagine a dead rat in there.

I would make it a dedicated freezer and not just try and use part of the fridge as a freezer. You can buy small chest freezers for about the same cost as a mini fridge. (~$100- $150 new from Target) This will be my route as I am also not allowed to keep frozen rodents in the main freezer (which is silly because we have frozen steaks and such in there as well). :rolleyes:

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OMG!

Really?

The little 36" fridge I got at Walmart for polymer clay work is a menace for freezing things, even if you don't want it to.

I think it's only got 2 settings; "Slowly Rot" and "Freeze Rock Solid".

I gave hubby the cube/dorm fridge I had for his machine shop and I have no idea what brand it is but it keeps his green tea ice cold on the lowest setting.

I know he accidentally turned it up a bit last summer and his bottles of tea popped from freezing even though they were in the "fridge part".

I keep my large bulk rodent bags in the workshop upright freezer and a couple week's worth of rats/mice in the kitchen fridge freezer on the bottom shelf so hubby doesn't have to pick through frozen, staring dead things to get his ice cream out.

:O

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Originally Posted by notmyfault

There is a place on Astoria Blvd that sells dry ice, its near the triboro bridge if you're in Queens. I don't know of any other places but I'm sure there are throughout the city, just have to search for some.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

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I'm not anywhere near NY (I'm in MI), but my local meat market sells it. Cheap too....

how long does that stuff last, am i gonna need to buy a chunk of it everytime? Reason im interested is im feeding live now, and will continue to do so, but when i try my much needed transistion to medium rats (which is what he should be feeding on going on 900G) i would be interested in trying this to knock out the rat first...

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Originally Posted by FrankieCarbone

how long does that stuff last, am i gonna need to buy a chunk of it everytime? Reason im interested is im feeding live now, and will continue to do so, but when i try my much needed transistion to medium rats (which is what he should be feeding on going on 900G) i would be interested in trying this to knock out the rat first...

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It should last pretty long. If you're only killing a rat or two you won't need much but you'll need enough that it'll actually kill it. And make sure it's properly gassed and dead and not just unconscious because if it's only unconscious and it wakes up, it could panic and harm your snake.

Your family shouldn't have an issue with rats in the freezer if they are contained in a opaque clearly marked container.. but... it's their house so you've got to go with their rules.

If you buy 5 rodents to keep, 5 weeks is long enough for a healthy rat to outgrow your size requirements. Rodents grow very fast. Plus, can you feed, clean water and watch a rodent for over a month and not get attached since you think all rats are sweet?

Rats are not all sweet, especially not to a snake, or when you're introducing them to a snake. If the snake refuses to eat the live rat, the rat can be paniced by the time you need to remove it, and bite you too. I know it's amazing, but rats can indeed just be mean. Not all rats are nice, nor will all rats allow handling, or even handling their cage items without biting.

Most rats are placid, even when you're dumping them in with a snake, since they of course don't know what's going on until it's too late(ideally). But live rats can bite, do bite. A frozen/thawed rodent has NEVER bitten the keeper or snake.

Any method of killing that is either painless or instant is humane. CO2 gas(from a canister or dry ice) is humane and painless. But you would have to buy dry ice each time, as you can't "keep" it for any amount of time. When it's gone, it's gone. You can't put it into a typical freezer as far as I'm aware(I don't know of any regular freezers that can keep dry ice frozen) and have it not dissolve. A CO2 canister(like used in paintball) would be your best bet, since you can use part of it, then close the canister to use the rest next week. But again, if you get attached to the rats, will you be able to gas a creature to death?

You'd probably only be able to keep rats for about 2-3 weeks, unless you're feeding prey too small to begin with, to too large in the end(of 5 weeks) since the rodents will continue to grow.

A small freezer that you could put into the garage would probably be better since you can save tons of money buying frozen in bulk, and it would be away from the family food freezer so they shouldn't object. $100-150 is a great investment since you'll be able to use it for years(and you can keep your own favorite 'treats' in YOUR freezer and no one in the family will take them, teehee!!!).

If you warm a F/T rodent up properly, the snake doesn't know it's dead. They hunt it, strike it and consume it exactly as if it were alive. You're not depriving the snake of anything by feeding F/T(and I feed live, so I'm not just against live feeding).

man, wolfy-hound put in work in that last thread!

Amy, where in SoCal do you live? SoCal has a lot of rodent breeders. PM me if you want :gj:

Amy: You have received lots of good information and advice but with all of your stipulations you may want to reconsider owning a snake. It just may not be the right pet for you and your situation at this time. Maybe later.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

Amy: You have received lots of good information and advice but with all of your stipulations you may want to reconsider owning a snake. It just may not be the right pet for you and your situation at this time. Maybe later.

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Because I might have to feed live? I don't see the problem as long as I am very careful. I am going to talk with my brothers and sister about having f/t rats in the freezer. It's the outside freezer that hardly anyone even goes into so I don't see where the problem would lie. My mom was the one making it tough in the first place but I talked to her and she said "See what your siblings and dad say." So I may be able to feed f/t. If not, I'll just get 3 weeks worth of rats.

I have been wanting a snake for about 3 years and my family is finally letting me own one. I understand what goes on with feeding now. I appreciate most of your guys input. I would never want my snake to be harmed. My first thought when considering getting a snake was f/t but I didn't think about what my family would think about it.

I don't know that I could kill rats myself in a CO2 chamber because to me it sounds holocausty... Taking rats and putting them in a gas chamber awaiting their untimely death due to suffocation by gas. But then again, if I feed live it's like even worse to them...So hopefully I can get my family to not hate me for putting dead, frozen rats in the freezer outside.

Wish me luck in the mean time, unless of course all of you are against me getting a snake too just because the way I may have to feed.

I may have come off as sensitive to the rats because I owned five of them, but like I have said before, it's circle of life and the snake needs to eat too.

Again, thank you guys for the help and information. It has helped a lot.

Yes some will make a noise. And as far as the blood coming out, it doesnt happen all the time but they are being essentially crushed and this can punture lungs, stomach, ect, and blood will therefore come out of the mouth and nose sometimes but not always, the better they get at feeding the quicker and less distressful feedings will become for the prey and the snake as they figure out how to do it more quickly and the right way.

i've heard of rats screaming and biting the snakes before, but not so much with mice.

Actually, most blood from the nose would probably be from excessive blood pressure from the constriction to the chest. (from one of the vets at UF I was talking to way back about snake constriction to the prey).

To the OP, myself, I am not worried over whether you feed live or not, but you have said a lot of "I can't buy live every week, I can't keep frozen rats, I don't want to kill them myself.." and it does kind of sound like there might be a lot of hurdles to overcome for you. It's good that you're figuring all these issues out before you have a snake to feed and it's "URGENT". Shows you're being responsible.

As far as gassing the rodents, it's not painful. It's CO2 gas, so don't compare that to the Holocaust with the poison gases. CO2 just makes them go to sleep and then they stop breathing. It's not painful, they don't suffucate or undergo any stress when it's done properly. Of course, if the snake strikes properly, the rat is only alive a few seconds before the constriction causes them to lose consciousness also. So either the snake or you, it's possible to have a relatively humane death. The difference comes when the snake hits poorly, and it can be painful to the rodent OR dangerous to the snake. If you mess up, you'd see they are not dead, you add more CO2 and they still die painlessly.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Actually, most blood from the nose would probably be from excessive blood pressure from the constriction to the chest. (from one of the vets at UF I was talking to way back about snake constriction to the prey).

To the OP, myself, I am not worried over whether you feed live or not, but you have said a lot of "I can't buy live every week, I can't keep frozen rats, I don't want to kill them myself.." and it does kind of sound like there might be a lot of hurdles to overcome for you. It's good that you're figuring all these issues out before you have a snake to feed and it's "URGENT". Shows you're being responsible.

As far as gassing the rodents, it's not painful. It's CO2 gas, so don't compare that to the Holocaust with the poison gases. CO2 just makes them go to sleep and then they stop breathing. It's not painful, they don't suffucate or undergo any stress when it's done properly. Of course, if the snake strikes properly, the rat is only alive a few seconds before the constriction causes them to lose consciousness also. So either the snake or you, it's possible to have a relatively humane death. The difference comes when the snake hits poorly, and it can be painful to the rodent OR dangerous to the snake. If you mess up, you'd see they are not dead, you add more CO2 and they still die painlessly.

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I *can* buy rats every week, it's just I don't want to drive to the reptile store. I am going to check out the reptile store that is NEAR me but from the reviews it's gotten it's probably not going to be a pleasant visit. If it's dirty, smells and the animals are in poor condition I won't be purchasing my feeders there. Otherwise I am just going to have to buy 3 weeks worth of rats at the reptile store that is a distance away and use those. OOORR if my family agrees (which I am hoping) then I will just get f/t. =) It will all work out fine, one way or another.

I guess I shouldn't have compared it to the Holocaust considering I didn't know much about it other than it was gas. Even though it's humane, I do not think I could do it. I'd rather have the pet store kill the rat for me if I need that done.

Thanks, you have been very helpful.

When we got our first snake I was against live food and fresh killed I thought frozen was the way to go but I quickly changed my mind. I have one male that will only eat live and the others prefer fresh killed or live. I hard no choice with the one either he was going to starve or I feed live. Also frozen thawed is a pain. One snake would only take them after we warmed them with a hair dryer. If pre killing makes you sad feed live keep a eye on them and when they hit back away so you don't have to see any blood. They kill them pretty quick. as far as the squeak is concerned it usually last a second and all of this stuff you will get use to it. My daughter loves baby rodents as well as the big ones but when its time to feed she knows they are food and has no problems dropping one in and watching them strike. Good luck I hope you can work everything out so you can get your snake.

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Originally Posted by AmysAnimals

That's sick. Would you want to die that way. What if they didn't die? What if they were still alive and suffering?!

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Not sick at all. The only way it wouldn't die is if you don't smack it hard enough. How do you think I kill my fish when I go fishing. I smash them on the head with a mallet.
If you think suffocating them is more humane than instantaneous death by blunt force, be my guest.
As owners of animals that kill(via suffocation and crushing) and eat other animals in nature I would think that most of us would be ok with making such a small sacrifice and save it the gruesome and not so slow death of being killed by a constricting snake.

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Originally Posted by MikeJuggles

Not sick at all. The only way it wouldn't die is if you don't smack it hard enough. How do you think I kill my fish when I go fishing. I smash them on the head with a mallet.
If you think suffocating them is more humane than instantaneous death by blunt force, be my guest.
As owners of animals that kill(via suffocation and crushing) and eat other animals in nature I would think that most of us would be ok with making such a small sacrifice and save it the gruesome and not so slow death of being killed by a constricting snake.

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X2 I agree blunt force is quick and painless.