Questions from a Nervous Owner

1. Regular ball python
2. 88-90 warm side, 77-80 cool side during the day (heat lamp)
2. 80 or so warm side, no lower than 73 cool side at night (UTH)
3. Humidy, usually right around 50, sometimes closer to 40, sometimes as high as 80
(spray bottle to adjust as needed) (higher during shed, UTH only during shed)
4. 40 gallon breeder with 2 hide spots, one on the warm, one on the cool
5. Water dish, changed usually every other day
6. Sticks and fake plants for decoration and comfort
7. Reptibark fir bark chips as substrate
8. Snake is a regular BP, hatched according to local breeder in July 2011
9. Current diet is 'rat pups' about once a week. Sometimes 6 days, other times 8, depending on the weekend
10. Most recent shed - 1-18-2012
11. Most recent meal 1-26-2012

First symptom (maybe). Very faint nose whistle heard last night. We had to mute the TV and hold our own breaths to get a good clear sound of it. I first heard it when the snake began exploring around my ear. Not so much a wheeze as a whistle. No gurgling in lungs, no noticable increase in mucus, no irregular behavior, no extra yawning, or breathing with mouth open, etc.

Second symptom (maybe). Today, after feeding, I watched for the snake to yawn. I pretty much always try and get a look because it seems like a good way to get a peek into the mouth. Instead of the normal pinkish hue, there was darker pink. Not totally red though, but just darker pink. There was the regular pink too, just some parts seemed a bit darker.

I know to look for puss, cheese, swelling, redness, and blood for mouth rot.

I know to look for snot, bubbles, wheezing, gurgling, excessive yawning, draping over branches, and open mouth breathing for URI.

So am I totally freaking out for no reason?
What are the very early signs of either?

No matter what I'm going to keep close tabs on her.

Thanks!

For a snake that age, a 40gal breeder is a bit too big. You could downsize it to a 20gal breeder (or smaller) for a while, and it will make the snake feel safer.

As for the whistling, I'd keep an eye on it, but I wouldn't panic. You said it shed on the 18th, and that wasn't a long time ago. It could have a bit of shed stuck in its nose causing the whistle.

As for the mouth, it sounds fine. Those darker pink spots were probably veins. Here's what the inside of a bp's mouth looks like: http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...32108mouth.jpg

One more thing; for a snake that's 6-7 months old, it's big enough to move onto bigger prey, assuming you're feeding rat fuzzies (still blind.) You should probably try offering either a medium sized mouse or rat hoppers. C:

1. The snake tank size seems fine so far. It is big, but I have ALOT of plants and branches and stuff in there. :)

2. The shed thing and nose whistle - yeah I read several other places and they mentioned the whistle might happen before a shed, but few, if any said after. But, hey, that's why I ask. Thank you, I will watch her closely and rest more easy tonight.

3. Food - I don't know if they're fuzzies. I know they're not rat pinks. I'm pretty sure their eyes are open, at least when their living. I don't feed live animals. She had been taking down ex-breeder mice and we bumped her up about 3 weeks ago to these. It doesn't leave a bulge in her like the food my corn snakes wolf down, but you can tell there is food in there. The pet store sells like 5 or 6 sizes of rats. I think they're ranked like this:

Pinkies, Fuzzies, Pups, Regular, Large, and Ex-Large

Thanks for the help.

Some people say that a 40 gallon is too big for a young snake but I have seen no evidence of this as long as there is enough cover in the cage. Basically as long as the snake is eating and shedding there is no problem. If not, then a smaller cage may be in order.

My only concern is the UTH and how you are measuring your temperatures. Does the UTH have a thermostat? And what are you using to measure temperatures and humidity?

As far as the possible RI symptoms go I think you are safe... At least for now. True RI symptoms are much more obvious than what you are describing.

I'm totally a waffler when it comes to some things. My friend and probably hundreds of other people swear you need some variety of heat regulator i.e. thermostat or rheostat. So far, I don't have one. I can see why you would want one, but I also can see why it isn't crucial. I have placed the back of my hand directly on the glass and it does not burn me, or feel uncomfortably hot. Of course, if the pad malfunctions, then thats another story and truthfully it is probably just a matter of time before I get some regulation mechanism. Right now it isn't a top priority.

I have stick on thermometers to read temperature. Again, not great, but better than guessing. Probably not totally accurate, but precise. I'll eventually stop by wal-mart and buy a probe from the garden section, but not a priority right now.

Humidity is measured from one of those crappy Petsmart analog dials. I'm sure its not completely accurate, but it is probably pretty precise.

The other method of temperature measurment is our airconditioner. At night we don't let the apartment reach below 73 (sometimes 72) and so I figure that the cool side of the tank must be at least that. I've calibrated our AC thermostat by comparing it to a digital NOAA weather thermometer. During the day, we bump the AC to 77 which again means the cool side has to be at least that. It also saves on our electric bill because its be unusually hot down here in Florida (or so they say. I'm new to the area). Seriously, the low tonight is 59 with rain. What kind of January is that!:O

So basically everything is an eventuality.

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Originally Posted by captainjack0000

So basically everything is an eventuality.

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Then you probably should have put the snake on the end of the "eventuality" list, instead of on the top. My apologies for sounding harsh, but far too many people have had burned snakes because of a malfunctioning heating pad, or having a heating pad shut off completely and have the temps plummet for days and you not know. Also stick on thermometers are meant for WATER, not GLASS. They aren't even accurate for water to begin with.

I too would suggest either more plants/overcover, or a smaller tank. I have two babies that WILL NOT eat unless they are in a box the size of a small shoebox. More overcover would also help - maybe a hide or two more than you already have - more options.

Just because the UTH doesn't feel uncomfortably hot to you, doesn't mean it isn't reaching a high enough temperature to burn your snake. Please regulate your heat before you're back here asking us if the abnormal looking scales on your bp's stomach is a burn. Rheostats aren't that expensive. I'd make it a top priority.

Stick on thermometers are worthless IMO. They are quite often very inaccurate. Again, more reliable probe, digital, thermometers aren't that expensive...

Petsmart analog humidity dials...see above ^^.

Lowering your temperatures at night is completely unnecessary. I also personally feel that they're reaching unsafe levels. Bps are best kept above 75. Preferably, 90 on the warm side and 80 on the cool side, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Lowering your temps to these levels is what, often, is a precursor to a RI (which IS the reason you're here with a concern).

Doesn't sound like the whistle you heard was anything to be concerned about right now, but I feel you're just asking for it unless you rectify the issues with your husbandry.

Feed a prey item that is slightly larger around then your snake is at its widest point. It should leave a little lump. For a such a young snake, I'd suggest feeding every 5 days...but every 7 is OK too.

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Originally Posted by captainjack0000

I'm totally a waffler when it comes to some things. My friend and probably hundreds of other people swear you need some variety of heat regulator i.e. thermostat or rheostat. So far, I don't have one. I can see why you would want one, but I also can see why it isn't crucial. I have placed the back of my hand directly on the glass and it does not burn me, or feel uncomfortably hot. Of course, if the pad malfunctions, then thats another story and truthfully it is probably just a matter of time before I get some regulation mechanism. Right now it isn't a top priority.

I have stick on thermometers to read temperature. Again, not great, but better than guessing. Probably not totally accurate, but precise. I'll eventually stop by wal-mart and buy a probe from the garden section, but not a priority right now.

Humidity is measured from one of those crappy Petsmart analog dials. I'm sure its not completely accurate, but it is probably pretty precise.

The other method of temperature measurment is our airconditioner. At night we don't let the apartment reach below 73 (sometimes 72) and so I figure that the cool side of the tank must be at least that. I've calibrated our AC thermostat by comparing it to a digital NOAA weather thermometer. During the day, we bump the AC to 77 which again means the cool side has to be at least that. It also saves on our electric bill because its be unusually hot down here in Florida (or so they say. I'm new to the area). Seriously, the low tonight is 59 with rain. What kind of January is that!:O

So basically everything is an eventuality.

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My thoughts on some things stated above, you need to get your priorities straight. You want to be a good reptile keeper, correct? I assume you do, and that you care for your snake, or you wouldn't have come here asking questions. Please, for the safety of your snake, get a thermostat, and a digital thermometer with probe. They are both fairly cheap, and essential for proper reptile keeping.

As for the whistling sound you are hearing, I too wouldn't be overly concerned. Your concerns should be at what I stated above.

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Then you probably should have put the snake on the end of the "eventuality" list, instead of on the top. My apologies for sounding harsh, but far too many people have had burned snakes because of a malfunctioning heating pad, or having a heating pad shut off completely and have the temps plummet for days and you not know. Also stick on thermometers are meant for WATER, not GLASS. They aren't even accurate for water to begin with.

I too would suggest either more plants/overcover, or a smaller tank. I have two babies that WILL NOT eat unless they are in a box the size of a small shoebox. More overcover would also help - maybe a hide or two more than you already have - more options.

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My UTH pad rocketed it up to 168 degrees one time, melting the plastic of the 20L tank frame and cracking the glass.

I returned it and bought the heating cable and 4 1000W thermostats.
[I'll never own another UTH pad...that wasn't the first one to 'go weird' on me]

If Iggy had just happened to be in her warm hide when it spiked, it would've killed her.

Luckily, she wasn't....or she'd had the sense to avoid it.

IMO, thermostats, IR temp guns and good digital thermometers/humidity monitors are absolutely, positively essential with no exceptions and of paramount "priority".

I agree with the others - a good thermostat and a reliable humidity guage are essential to keeping a healthy snake. I would also suggest getting a temp gun to read your various temps - this takes all the guessing out of it.

The money you have to spend to get the correct/essential equipment is nothing compared to a vet visit and medications needed to reverse the problems that set in from not keeping the snake in the correct environment.

Best of luck to you. Please consider getting the necessary equipment ASAP for the health of your snake

Tank size is irrelavent as long as your temps are good. They dont live in small bins in the wild so as long as husbandry is on point it doesnt matter what size tank they are in as long as there are hides. Keep in mind in the wild they spend most of their time underground. The majority of wild caught balls are dug out of the ground in termite mounds. As far as temps i wouldnt drop temps at night. If your cooling for breeding then thats another story but in your situation i would keep temps solid. As far as faint whistling goes its not uncommon for them to make noises around shed time. Just kep an eye on it and be proactive. Perfect husbandry is key always. As far as food goes 1 size appropriate rat once a week is perfect.

First and foremost I want to say thank you for everybody who took the time to read my question and posted an answer. I cannot stress enough my appreciation for the generous sharing of knowledge from people.

I hesistate to say anything being such a new person to this website, but, I've always been a bit outspoken, so I will try to be brief at the very least.

If any of you are interested in building a community of people that welcomes others, I highly suggest that some of you take the time to read the questions posed and only answer those questions, or provide information relevant to the question at hand.

Examples:

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Also stick on thermometers are meant for WATER, not GLASS.

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Total BS. All Living Things and other companies make LCD thermometers designed for terrariums.

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I too would suggest either more plants/overcover, or a smaller tank. I have two babies that WILL NOT eat unless they are in a box the size of a small shoebox. More overcover would also help - maybe a hide or two more than you already have - more options.

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How does any of this relate to a nose whistle or concerns about the interior of the snakes mouth? I did not express anywhere feeding issues.

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Lowering your temperatures at night is completely unnecessary.

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You might be right. But then again, does it hurt the animal to mimic what it will encounter in the wild? More importly, how does this relate at all to the questions I asked?

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Feed a prey item that is slightly larger around then your snake is at its widest point. It should leave a little lump. For a such a young snake, I'd suggest feeding every 5 days...but every 7 is OK too.

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Again, I aked nothing about feeding size, frequency, type, etc.

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My thoughts on some things stated above, you need to get your priorities straight. You want to be a good reptile keeper, correct?

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Again, IMO, totally unneccesaary and only serves to alienate the herp community. Unless there is some desire to an insular community.

Seriously, I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, though I'm sure I have. It bothers me to see such acrid attitudes towards people seeking knowledge.

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On the topic of temperature regulators. I would hope that the manufacturing companies of these items that are made specifically for reptiles have a pretty good track record as far as not having malfunctions. Thats not a good business model if your product routinely maims or kills your customers. Does that mean that it won't malfunction. Of course not. Is it a good idea to safeguard against malfunction. Of course. How more reliable is a thermostat than a UTH? How do I know the thermostat won't malfunction which will lead to burning my snake? All I'm saying is that out of the thousands of those UTH's made and sold, I bet there are a good number of them that never use a thermostat, and I bet a low number of those snakes get burned. You guys just don't hear about the happy healthy snakes because when something does go wrong, they come here looking for answers. There's no reason to post on here to say, "Yup, my snake didn't die today."

I'm sorry if I've been overly rude. Again, I want to say thank you for everybody who took the time to read my question and posted an answer. I cannot stress enough my appreciation for the generous sharing of knowledge from people.

Hey man, you don't have to be a jerk about it.

You had a problem, and you wanted answers. You gave us the info on the tank as well as your snake to help us assess the problem. We used the info and suggested things to improve to help you and your issue as well as point you in the right direction to keep things healthy and happy. If you didn't want to hear any of it, too bad, because we would have asked for temp, enclosure type/size, feeding routine, shed cycle, etc anyway to figure out what the source of the whistling is.

Your caustic reply was really unnecessary.

As far as the thermometers go - regardless of what they are /for/ they don't function adequately.

I would like to mention that everything we've suggested - alienating though it may seem - is actually in response to your query. You have a question. We are trying to help you eradicate the potential causes. IF it is an RI, it could be caused by the dropped temperatures or stress of a larger than comfortable environment. We really are just trying to help and the fact that it is over the internet, with very emotionless text, we can't quite convey our meaning without seeming like complete and total jerks.

Also - The thermostats - yes, there are an untold number of heating pads that are sold, there are also more than a few animals burned because of old, unregulated ones, or new ones with a short circuit. The reason we use them is it's ONE MORE SAFEGUARD to protect our children. I treat every one of my snakes as if it were my child, and I know many more of these people do as well. If you had a kid, and you let her ride around in the front seat without her seatbelt on because - well she's already got the airbag...

Please just understand that we are trying to help.

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IF it is an RI, it could be caused by the dropped temperatures or stress of a larger than comfortable environment. We really are just trying to help and the fact that it is over the internet, with very emotionless text, we can't quite convey our meaning without seeming like complete and total jerks.

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I guess I just didn't quite get the connection. Now I see it. Thank you.

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You had a problem, and you wanted answers. You gave us the info on the tank as well as your snake to help us assess the problem. We used the info and suggested things to improve to help you and your issue as well as point you in the right direction to keep things healthy and happy. If you didn't want to hear any of it, too bad, because we would have asked for temp, enclosure type/size, feeding routine, shed cycle, etc anyway to figure out what the source of the whistling is.

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Yeah I provided as much info as possible because I figured it would help. I didn't get why all of the comments were presented that weren't connected to the question. I get that now (see above).

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Hey man, you don't have to be a jerk about it.

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Yup...again. Sorry about that. I'm usually pretty friendly, if outspoken. Well, at least I think I am, and apparently so does my wife. :)

Thank you all again. Have a good weekend!

It's really hard to take someone's tone over the internet. I wasn't trying to sound harsh or a jerk either, and I apologize if it came out that way to you. Ultimately, I am just trying to help you so you can avoid any problems down the road, as was everyone else. :)