UTH & Thermostates?

Basically everywhere I've read on this site, and others, strongly suggest, and that might be too conservative a word, is that an UTH should not be used without a thermostat. My question is, why? Is it possible for a snake to get burnt with an UTH as the only heat source? I'd like people who have firsthand knowledge of this as I have never heard of a snake getting burnt with an UTH as a single heat source. I know snakes can get burnt with hot rocks and/or a combination of UTH/lamps/heat emitters etc., but just an UTH? Maybe the bigger ones get hotter and that's what’s confusing me but I have a 8 watt UTH, had it on all day and jammed a thermometer between the pad and the glass, the stabilized temp reading was 88.5 F, and that's at the hottest point. There is no way my snake is going to get burnt at that temperature. Is the argument that 88.5F isn't hot enough for the hot spot, so a secondary heat source is required, and the combination can increase the temp enough to burn the snake? Also as I understand it, when a UTH breaks, it doesn’t heat up, it just stops working as the circuit is broken, is this correct? When they fail, if they increase beyond their design temp, I understand the point of a thermostat, but my understanding is they just stop heating.

Any thoughts on this?

The concept behind the UTH burning your snake is the same behind hot rocks. The UTH is under your tank, but your snake burrows under the substrate to get closer to the heat source and rests on the glass. If your UTH isn't controlled by a thermostat, they can get burned if the UTH gets too high in temp.

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

The concept behind the UTH burning your snake is the same behind hot rocks. The UTH is under your tank, but your snake burrows under the substrate to get closer to the heat source and rests on the glass. If your UTH isn't controlled by a thermostat, they can get burned if the UTH gets too high in temp.

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I understand the concept, my point being that it would appear the max temperature of my UTH is 88.6F, no where near being hot enough to burn my snake. Do some get hotter?

On a side not, apparently I can't spell thermostats......

Uhhhh, what kind of UTH and how are you reading 88.5 for it? Most store bought UTHs exceed 130 degrees without a thermostat. If you're reading it with an inaccurate thermometer that would explain the confusion here.

Check this out (graphic)

All of my UTH's get to 120. I can provide photographic evidence if necessary.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

All of my UTH's get to 120. I can provide photographic evidence if necessary.

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Oh, no need of that, I believe you! What size wattage are yours? Mines a small tropical, 8 watt, Exo-Terra. Is it feasable that mine just doesn't get that hot because I don't think there is any possible way it's over 90F.

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Originally Posted by Trochu

Oh, no need of that, I believe you! What size wattage are yours? Mines a small tropical, 8 watt, Exo-Terra. Is it feasable that mine just doesn't get that hot because I don't think there is any possible way it's over 90F.

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Exo Terra? I doubt it. How are you reading the temps. I must add that my small 8 watt Zoo Med read well over 130 degrees, and that's measured with my accurate temp gun over a square of a paper bag over the glass over the UTH.

I have a few different brands, sizes, and wattages. Even my 7 watt flukers gets 120+

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Originally Posted by Trochu

Oh, no need of that, I believe you! What size wattage are yours? Mines a small tropical, 8 watt, Exo-Terra. Is it feasable that mine just doesn't get that hot because I don't think there is any possible way it's over 90F.

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It is possible, it may be slightly defective or something. I would question whatever you are using to measure your temperature first though.

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Originally Posted by Trochu

.....Also as I understand it, when a UTH breaks, it doesn’t heat up, it just stops working as the circuit is broken, is this correct? When they fail, if they increase beyond their design temp, I understand the point of a thermostat, but my understanding is they just stop heating.

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I agree with the others and I wonder how you're measuring the temp on your 8 watt UTH. I have an 8 watt too (zoomed) and it would easily skyrocket over 120 without a t-stat.

But I wanted to address this point in particular... Usually, when a UTH breaks, it would just stop heating. But the problem isn't if it breaks - it's if it should malfunction. I had a 10 watt zoomed malfunction one day and it actually smoldered. It burned the off side of the pad actually charing the plastic and it cracked the glass bottom of the tank it was under. It would have started a fire except for the fact that it was operated on a fuse outlet so it blew the fuse which turned the whole thing off in time. I should note that the tank was empty at the time and that we were home. Thank God! I was testing something at the time which is why I had it on in the first place - test was successful in a round about way. :rolleyes:

If the UTH had been on a t-stat, the t-stat would have shut off the unit LONG before it would have heated to such an extreme. So a t-stat is not just to prevent burns for your snake, it's also a safety feature for your home. :gj:

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Originally Posted by LGray23

Exo Terra? I doubt it. How are you reading the temps. I must add that my small 8 watt Zoo Med read well over 130 degrees, and that's measured with my accurate temp gun over a square of a paper bag over the glass over the UTH.

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I tried two methods to measure the temperature. One, I used a temp gun on the top of the glass. This resulted in a reading of 90.5F. Second method, not as accurate I realize as there is an air gap, but I just jammed a stick thermometer between the UTH and the bottom of the glass. This resulted in a reading of 88.5. I tried a third thermometer, a stick, that was calibrated yesterday and it read 92F.

Do the 'Desert' UTH got hotter than the 'Tropical' UTH or did I get a malfunctioning unit?

It's either malfunctioned or they are being read inaccurately. Temp guns are inaccurate when reading on a "shiny" surface like glass, and not sure about the other thermometers or what you mean by "stick thermometer". Do you mean like ones we use to take our own temps when sick?

There are a lot of different types ultartherms are designed and limited to 110 max and most will not get over 100 still to hot for long term but safe short term. Not all are like this the 'rainforrest' ones are low wattage and 88 seems low my old one used to hit 96 but it would depend GREATLY on room temps.

Ambient temps must never be discounted when dealing with temps. This is the reason why thermostats they adjust the power based on the temps not just limited by power. The trouble with the rainforrest ones and to a lesser degree ultratherms, is if you have cool temps say 72º they may only produce a max of 85º (guessing figures only for example) at a room temp of 80 it may produce 98 maybe more (it is more efficient to heat from warmer temps it has not in my experience been a straight sliding scale)

looking at you direct sample 88º if the room temp drop 4-6º your questionable hot spot (88 is fine for little snakes a bit cool for adults) will drop as well and the hot spot will be gone assuming the ambient air temp in the enclosure drops with the room temp so say you have 70-80 temps if this was for a length of time you could have a sick snake on your hands. The power of the uth is not enough to over come the ambient temps. The same happens on the high end.

It is a balance between wattage of the UTH and safety. Thermostats allow higher wattage's to be used and are able to over come dropping room temps easily and maintain correct temps. The risk is if the T-stat fails or probe gets pulled the UTH can cause high temps and burn the snake badly. Either is a risk, it is a balance. Personally I don't like to use a t-stat with out a fail safe one as well. My room temps vary a lot and the range of temps I can handle before the enclosures change is quite large (63º-84º or so.) Limited wattage systems (either by panel or rheostat) require absolutely stable room temps to work and if the room temp changes the system fails. this is a hard balance to maintain.

I hope this clears up things for you. I would always recommend T-stats as they are more flexible and can provide a high level of safety on both high and low end. restricted power system provide a measure of safety on the high end but nothing on the low.

Reduced wattage systems also are hard to balance for a beginner because it is working in your room it may (likely will not) in another. That makes it an unsafe recommendation.

Yes Desert ones are twice the wattage. I believe the middle size one is 4 watts where the same size desert is 8 or 10 watts much more heat. No I do not believe yours is malfunctioning they do not get hot and are very similar to the ultratherm ones from UK.