Federal Python BAN

How many people have signed the Federal Python BAN Petition???
This might not effect you now, but they won't stop at just a few snakes.
SIGN IT, SIGN IT NOW!!! :snake:

I signed it the second I saw it

You may want to add a link to it, here.
I understand some folks are having problems logging in to the site.
Try using Internet Explorer, and reload if it doesn't load properly the first time.

Is this the one?

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition...n-ban/4wGFbc4Y

signed

I was #264 i believe

As of 01/24/2012 there are only 3,700 signatures.
This petition needs 25,000 signatures by 02/17/2012.
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition...n-ban/4wGFbc4Y

What happens when you hit 25,000 signatures?

Signed it. Posted it to facebook, email bombed it, text bombed it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

What happens when you hit 25,000 signatures?

---

Good question.

It will show that there is a large enough voice to have them send it back for further review, but they can still pass it even with all the signatures... But we need to give it all we got!! SIGN, and SHARE


Jeremy T.
J and D Reptiles
www.janddreptiles.com

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JandDReptiles

It will show that there is a large enough voice to have them send it back for further review, but they can still pass it even with all the signatures... But we need to give it all we got!! SIGN, and SHARE


Jeremy T.
J and D Reptiles
www.janddreptiles.com

---

First, as far as the additions to the Lacey Act - there is nothing to "pass". How are people so turned around on this subject? Have any of you taken the time to read as to what the USFWS did or how they did it?

Second, do you think 25,000 signatures is significant?

I call it pathetic. If the Reptile Nation has a claimed 7.3 Million reptile keepers, all 25,000 signatures shows is that you got a whopping 0.003% to sign a worthless petition.

It also shows weakness. Don't think that people who wish to impose actual legislation banning reptiles state by state will note such a small turnout.

The amendments to the Lacey Act have to be fought in court. You people need to stop thinking that there is going to be a "vote" on this thing. It's a waste of time and energy. If you want to fight, fight intelligently and FOCUS your efforts on actions that are going to amount to more than a futile and laughable gesture.

I am a Canadian and I have watched the issues quite closely. I cannot comment of the American government exactly but what Skip has mentioned is true for Canada and likely the USA too. It is done, it is time for legal challenge where both sides MUST be heard and the methods used to by pass the law during the process will be exposed and answered for. The time for petitions is past it is time to unite and ban together and bluntly open the wallets to support a legal challenge has arrived.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

First, as far as the additions to the Lacey Act - there is nothing to "pass". How are people so turned around on this subject? Have any of you taken the time to read as to what the USFWS did or how they did it?

Second, do you think 25,000 signatures is significant?

I call it pathetic. If the Reptile Nation has a claimed 7.3 Million reptile keepers, all 25,000 signatures shows is that you got a whopping 0.003% to sign a worthless petition.

It also shows weakness. Don't think that people who wish to impose actual legislation banning reptiles state by state will note such a small turnout.

The amendments to the Lacey Act have to be fought in court. You people need to stop thinking that there is going to be a "vote" on this thing. It's a waste of time and energy. If you want to fight, fight intelligently and FOCUS your efforts on actions that are going to amount to more than a futile and laughable gesture.

---

I'm not at all being sarcastic when I ask this...Do you have any advise or thoughts on what we can do to help overturn this? Aside from supporting USARK. I want to do everything I can to assist in this fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DemmBalls

I'm not at all being sarcastic when I ask this...Do you have any advise or thoughts on what we can do to help overturn this? Aside from supporting USARK. I want to do everything I can to assist in this fight.

---

Focus on the state bans like Virginia. Those state bans are real killers. Unlike the USFWS action, They can be fought with massive letter writing campaigns.

With regards to the USFWS additions, support the upcoming Federal Lawsuit that will be required to debunk/discredit the data that led to the additions to the Lacey Act. As Alex pointed out, the time for petitions is past. The focus needs to be on the lawsuit.

People also need to be more aware what is happening state by state. Stop waiting to hear about this stuff on a forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

I am a Canadian and I have watched the issues quite closely. I cannot comment of the American government exactly but what Skip has mentioned is true for Canada and likely the USA too. It is done, it is time for legal challenge where both sides MUST be heard and the methods used to by pass the law during the process will be exposed and answered for. The time for petitions is past it is time to unite and ban together and bluntly open the wallets to support a legal challenge has arrived.

---

I agree as well.

Question:
Is there any use in someone who is NOT from Virginia writing in to oppose a Virginia ban?

(Nebraska had a restrictive bill come up here, but thanks to the concerted efforts of the Nebraska Herp Society and some other interests, we won, and it did not pass).

My concern is that getting a bunch of letters from non-residents would be as likely to do more harm than good, but I don't know for certain how that is viewed, which is why I am asking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DemmBalls

I'm not at all being sarcastic when I ask this...Do you have any advise or thoughts on what we can do to help overturn this? Aside from supporting USARK. I want to do everything I can to assist in this fight.

---

In my opinion, changing the public's perceptions of reptiles is one of the most important things we can do.

I've heard a lot of people say they don't tell their neighbors about their reptiles, that they don't want people to know what they have. I think that's a bad way to go about it.

Tell everyone you meet about how much you love reptiles, about how cool they are and how rewarding they can be. Dispel any misconceptions your friends and family might have about them. Show them your animals, and try to get them to hold or interact with them.

The general public still think snakes are "icky." There are a lot of misconceptions regarding what they can do (no, a ball python can't and won't even try to eat my baby). The more educated the general public is about them, the less likely they are to support this kind of thing.

So, my recommendation is to donate as much as you can to USARK and try to reach as many people as you can about how great and rewarding your reptiles are.

I know you weren't directing your question at me, but I feel this is important.

i dont understand how this ban holds any weight what-so-ever, if i recall correctly, isnt it written in the constitution that congress shall pass NO law that would deprive anyone of LIFE, LIBERTY, or PROPERTY. this "ban" should be treated as void on its face as it is in violation of the constitution!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GR8DANE

i dont understand how this ban holds any weight what-so-ever, if i recall correctly, isnt it written in the constitution that congress shall pass NO law that would deprive anyone of LIFE, LIBERTY, or PROPERTY. this "ban" should be treated as void on its face as it is in violation of the constitution!!!

---

Congress didn't pass any law.

Even the petition gets it wrong - referring to some "law" being passed. I cringe every time I look at it.

I'm going to explain this REAL slow so all of you can grasp this:

This is NOT a bill.

It is a rule amendment measure that was enacted by the USFWS.

Therefore is cannot be challenged like legislation can. Congress had no part in this - get that through your heads. It was not submitted as legislation and voted on.

The only way this can be reversed (outside of the USFWS doing it on their own) is by filing a Federal Lawsuit against the USFWS challenging the data that led to their amendment.

Understand that the USFW has the ability to either create or amend some existing rules/laws without any input from either the congress or the President.

The only way to reverse such an amended rule is to file a Federal Law Suit challenging the quality of the information/evidence that led to their decsion.

Period.

Lastly, this is not a ban on ownership. It is a ban on importation and interstate transport of the four affected species.

If I were a member of PETA or HSUS I would be laughing my A$$ off at all the misinformation and mis-directed energies being thrown around by the Reptile Nation. USAR has clearly outlined what's next, they have clearly a baldly stated that petitions are worthless and they have clearly discussed what this rule amendment means.

Some of you need to immediately cease spreading BS info and concentrate your energy on actual actions that will be effective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Question:
Is there any use in someone who is NOT from Virginia writing in to oppose a Virginia ban?

(Nebraska had a restrictive bill come up here, but thanks to the concerted efforts of the Nebraska Herp Society and some other interests, we won, and it did not pass).

My concern is that getting a bunch of letters from non-residents would be as likely to do more harm than good, but I don't know for certain how that is viewed, which is why I am asking.

---

You should talk to the California Association of Swap Meets and the Golden State Coral Frag Society.

A few years ago we were facing some legislation in California regarding selling pets at meets, swaps and expos.

USARK and the forum geniuses seemed more interested in other esoteric pursuits, as in figuring out how the punnet square works when you breed a fudge dingleberry het for corn to a tae-bo cougar pied.

The local reptile groups out here soon found out from our State Assembly Reps. that the powerful Swap Meet and Coral Frag Societies fought the good fight and forced in the provisions that ended up protecting the Mighty Reptile Nation.

Maybe the good folks of Virginia can recruit the fraggers and the swappers to help them out. My experience with the Reptile Nation leads me to believe that we need a lot of help with these sort of things.

The other thing you can do is start getting it through people's heads that signing on line petitions regarding the USFWS rule amendment is an abjectly pathetic exercise in idiocy. Efforts need to be focused on reaching out to the various exotic pet societies in the State of Virginia to get them to band together as a unified front against this legislation.

That should include local pet stores, chain pet stores, and the pet supply manufacturers. Someone also needs to keep an eye on USARK to see if they offer up their "model" legislation as a compromise - self-imposed permits and protocols in lieu of outright bans.

Ok...but, that didn't actually answer my question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Ok...but, that didn't actually answer my question.

---

There is no reason why a national lobbying group (or a coalition thereof + the people of Virginia) cannot make up a big enough stink to beat this off. Will outsiders hurt the cause? Maybe, maybe not.

Careful, the lobbying group may just compromise on this with "model legislation".

Here in virginia thete are other factors involved in them wanting to be strict with anything potentiallybeing an invasive species. I am an avid outdoorsman and hunter and do alot of work with dmap and virginia is starting to see issues from ferrel hogs. Not to mention the big snakehead issue that started in md and spread into va. Any sniff of another potential invasive species will cause panic. I know i know pythons wouldnt survive but it still has an impact. Another issue is the fact there has been alot of exotic animal issues within the state over big cats and other species. I have talked to a couple friends of mine here, one is a game warden and the other is a wildlife bioligist and they both tell me from what they are hearing virginia is doing alot of huffing and puffing without alot of data to back the ban they are trying to get done.

there are many things I'd like to say at the moment as a Virginia resident and new attorney, but I will hold off until I have done the appropriate legwork. the only thing I can state with confidence is that the general assembly of Virginia huffs and puffs often. then they pass legislation. this is not purely bluster.

Skiploder... Your point is well taken, by all, the AMMENDMENT has been passes/made to the Lacey Act... We all know what that means. I agree it is pathetic that we can't he 25,000 signatures in less than 2 days in an industry of over 7million... However, the petitions, though weak, can an do mean something if successful in acquiring the numbers needed! Besides that, the best thing to do it to stay in contact with your state senators and wildlife services to make sure they don't pass anything in your state.. Request meetings and express the TRUE FACTS! I personally have already done news stories, and am contacting media sources daily to try to get stories out! Public education is the key! Even if people aren't reptile fans, or keepers if they own a small mammal, fish, dogs, etc are all at risk by the precedent just set here!


Jeremy T.
J and D Reptiles
www.janddreptiles.com

I also have a question, as a concerned member of the community I want to help. As a Canadian I am not sure where or what I can do. I have given $ to USARK, I just don't know what else I can do. I would like to help somehow and am open to suggestions!
Alex

Well, the problem is communication--the industry is huge, far-flung, and extremely disconnected, and there are a great many people involved in it who don't participate in forums, and even many who don't have a computer at all. There is a huge pool of casual pet owners out there who right now have no idea that this even happened.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition...ening/grQ9mNkN