Didnt know that about Bumble Bee's

I never really got my head around what the wobble-twirl in the spider gene was until now... So what im trying to understand is, if the snake is over 300 grams with no signs of wobble-twirl, does that mean it will be okay for the rest of his life.... OR Can he still get it at any given time?

They can develop it at any point in their life, but it really isn't anything to worry about.

It can get worse or get better with age. My Desert/Spider was my worst wobbler as a hatchling, but now it is barely noticeable.

And I have a woma female that was a little bit of a spaz as a baby, and now a year later she can barely function. It's so bad she can't eat anything bigger than a 20g ASF by herself.

Ive seen ads on KS with breeders selling spiders with no wobble so this would lead me to believe its more something that theyre born with not something that can develop later on in life... But thats just my 2 cents, im not positive.

Its not something to "get" they all have the potential to do it. Stress or excitement seems to bring it out more. No one can answer your question, it going to be up to your animal. I've seen the same animal be fine when it was born, go to a new home, get shipped back with a horrible wobble and lose the wobble over a month or two. Our theory was the living conditions at the one home wernt ideal for that spider.

Nothing to worry about? How can you have a snake like that? I would just feel bad to see it like that, constantly wobbling and twirling? Im buying a bumble bee from a local breeder.... but i have kind of shifted my attention to this butter he is selling :
http://i42.tinypic.com/1fgy34.jpg

He says this Bee here:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2ely3ol.jpg

Does not have a wobble-twirl, but i'm worried it will develop it later on.

Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Its not something to "get" they all have the potential to do it. Stress or excitement seems to bring it out more. No one can answer your question, it going to be up to your animal. I've seen the same animal be fine when it was born, go to a new home, get shipped back with a horrible wobble and lose the wobble over a month or two. Our theory was the living conditions at the one home wernt ideal for that spider.

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You're saying if the temp or humidity isn't right it can bring it out more?

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Originally Posted by hurricaNe

You're saying if the temp or humidity isn't right it can bring it out more?

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Stress and/or excitement is what brings it out. Improper temperatures or humidity levels will stress you any snake.

Whats your thoughts on the "bumble Bee vs. Butter" should i take the risk and buy the bumble bee? Or go with a butter.:taz:

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Originally Posted by hurricaNe

Nothing to worry about? How can you have a snake like that? I would just feel bad to see it like that, constantly wobbling and twirling? Im buying a bumble bee from a local breeder.... but i have kind of shifted my attention to this butter he is selling :
http://i42.tinypic.com/1fgy34.jpg

He says this Bee here:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2ely3ol.jpg

Does not have a wobble-twirl, but i'm worried it will develop it later on.

Any thoughts?

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No it's not. It is extremely overstated on the Internet, and cases bad enough to cause actual issues are rare. I'm holding my spider right now, and his head will start to wobble just a bit, but he doesn't seem to mind so neither do I.

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Originally Posted by hurricaNe

Whats your thoughts on the "bumble Bee vs. Butter" should i take the risk and buy the bumble bee? Or go with a butter.:taz:

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I personally like that bee better than that butter but what I think doesn't matter. Which one do you like better?

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

No it's not. It is extremely overstated on the Internet, and cases bad enough to cause actual issues are rare. I'm holding my spider right now, and his head will start to wobble just a bit, but he doesn't seem to mind so neither do I.

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Great because ive really got my mind set on a bumble bee.

I already told the breeder i want him for tuesday, ive been trying to find one and have been really excited for one. The Bumble Bee is my choice

I just honestly hope the wobble doesnt get really bad :(

There is no way to treat it if lets say it starts to get real bad?

I think consensus is that it's a very variable issue but its potential lives in every single spider. If you're not cool with it, I'd advise not to get a snake with the spider gene. I didn't do my homework and while I enjoy my bee and wouldn't give him back at this point, I would have bought a non-neurologically impaired snake if I could go back in time. He functions perfectly fine by the way.

I think the other consensus is that if the guy is claiming the snake doesn't wobble AT ALL, then it means A) he's playing with words by telling you that it doesn't wobble... what he means is he hasn't observed it express the wobble or B) he's straight up lying to you.

If it's something that gives you a little bit of a negative visceral reaction like it does to me, I'd advise against it. There are plenty of other morphs out there that don't have issues.

Wobble isn't a sickness, it is a neurological disorder that causes some of them to have difficulty in sensing which way is up and which way is down. It is like the inner ear in humans.

So no there isn't anything that can be done.

Im not really bothered by it just upset about it in general, its a shame, but im still going to go through with it. Hes not lying, hes a trusted breeder around here, i spoke to another local friend breeder who says hes done business with this guy before : WWW.legendboas.com

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I think consensus is that it's a very variable issue but its potential lives in every single spider. If you're not cool with it, I'd advise not to get a snake with the spider gene. I didn't do my homework and while I enjoy my bee and wouldn't give him back at this point, I would have bought a non-neurologically impaired snake if I could go back in time. He functions perfectly fine by the way.

I think the other consensus is that if the guy is claiming the snake doesn't wobble AT ALL, then it means A) he's playing with words by telling you that it doesn't wobble... what he means is he hasn't observed it express the wobble or B) he's straight up lying to you.

If it's something that gives you a little bit of a negative visceral reaction like it does to me, I'd advise against it. There are plenty of other morphs out there that don't have issues.

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You might want to watch your words with possibly accusing someone of lying.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

You might want to watch your words with possibly accusing someone of lying.

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x2, Not all spiders wobbles are noticeable...

Wobbles are also expressed differently. Sometimes it's a true wobble, other times it's a corkscrew, my guy has a slight head tilt 24/7. Only time he wobbles is when he is excited (feeding or breeding) or stressed. He will do a single corkscrew once in a blue moon.

His daughter is the same way, only wobbles when excited during feeding. Never seen her corkscrew.

They eat, shed, breed the same way as other morphs, so it doesn't bother them.

Also, they are a dominant morph, so it is expressed in the wild and they survive well enough to grow into adults.

part of a write up i did on the spider gene. full thing is here

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I don't believe the wobble is leaving there is too much evidence it is linked directly to the gene, but I think it can be reduced. I see stress levels might play a factor in the amount of wobble the Spider's show. As stated before, every snake is different, but I have personally seen how changing homes can bring a minimal wobble, to horrible wobble, to minimal wobble again. Many people report only seeing signs of it while only feeding, or only while being handled. I feel this strengthens the idea that stress or excitement can elevate the condition.

I know this may be a touchy subject for some Spider owners whose snakes exhibit a particularly bad wobble. They may feel like i'm saying their not taking care of their snake correctly. I will say if your snake is eating and living a healthy life, you are doing a great job, there may be Spider that will always have the bad wobble, but also it may need extra accommodations beyond the normal to feel less stressed (ex. extra hide, more foliage, less direct light, ect). Yes, I am suggesting the 2 hide, water bowl, cookie cutter setup may not be right for every ball python in general and the Spider just shows it. I have talked this over with many people and online and I think it all comes to the same conclusion that it's near impossible to test this theory. Some people have stories that strengthen the theory and some have stories that 100% conflict with it. So take it as you wish. If you have any input on this feel free to email me.

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I have 2 spider balls and a jag carpet (the jags look like they have the same issue) and really it's nothing to worry about. I would never even think of getting rid of them based on the wobble, Heck one of my spiders has never shown it one bit the entire time we had her. eating, breeding, laying eggs, flip her over, dog sniffing her.... never shows it. The others do though.

If I was buying one I would get the butter just because of the colorin between th 2. Forgetting about the wobble just based off the 2 snakes.

I raised a spider male that had no noticeable wobble until he hit puberty(8-9 months old), now he is 3 years old and shakes his head violently and corkscrews worse than 90% of the spiders I've seen.
The seller could be 100% honest with you and you still might end up with a weeble...

Yeah, i just thought it effected them. Like i said, im sticking to the Bumble Bee, already got it on hold, Ive been waiting to get one for two years. This def wont stop me. I just needed more insight.:banana:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I raised a spider male that had no noticeable wobble until he hit puberty(8-9 months old), now he is 3 years old and shakes his head violently and corkscrews worse than 90% of the spiders I've seen.
The seller could be 100% honest with you and you still might end up with a weeble...

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And, im fully aware of that, personally, if it doesnt hurt them, it just makes them that much more unique and fascinating. I dont mind the wobble.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

if the guy is claiming the snake doesn't wobble AT ALL, then it means A) he's playing with words by telling you that it doesn't wobble... what he means is he hasn't observed it express the wobble

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And I'm not calling them a liar, I phrased myself appropriately to convey that the consensus is that every spider carries the ability to wobble. There is no "no wobble line." That's all.