Live or Frozen?

I've heard alot of negatives about feeding them live mice... I fed her frozen today. Just wanted to know what all of you think about it?

It is always preferred to feed frozen or pre-killed. There are some snakes that just won't eat anything other than live so you have to indulge them. Feeding live can be very dangerous. a mouse can kill a snake if left unattended

Brutal evidence of this:

http://www.deviantconstrictors.com/i...feed-live1.jpg

It is a matter of personal preference. I feed live rats and ASFs. And I watch every single snake kill and eat dinner or dinner is removed.

more is not really needed. Live feedings comes with a bit more risk than PK or FT. It is a manageable risk but a rish all the same. If your snake redily takes FT I'd feed FT.

There is nothing wrong with feeding live as long as you supervise to some degree. I feed my collection f/t because it's cheaper, but I do have a few that will only take live. I will leave pinkies and pups in overnight if they don't take them right away, but anything larger they get a few minutes to make a move before I turn the lights down and wait. I want to make sure they get a good grab before I leave them alone. Snakes know what they are doing and sometimes we worry about them a little too much.

It's mostly personal preference. FT definitely eliminates the risk of the prey item injuring the snake. But some snakes won't take FT, so you've got to give them live. I think if your snake will take FT, then feed FT.

It's the never ending debate of the bp world.

I feed live, and have fed live for a few years now, and have had zero issues to speak of. Done responsibly, live feeding is fine. Of course, there is always the chance of a bite or a scratch, but the chance is not great, and if you are attentive, the chance of something happening is even less. Then again, feeding f/t, there is always a chance of not fully thawing or cooking the prey item, which can cause damage to your snake. I'm not advocating one method over the other, and bad things can happen either way, so whichever suits you, just be attentive.

Thank you again! And I would never leave her unattended. I did make the mistake of holding the frozen one today and by feeding her in her home which I know isn't a good thing to do... if I were to feed her a live one, I would hold it the same as I did the one I had to warm up for her.. She struck it quickly and wrapped around instantly even though shes been on the frozen from the pet store.. I'm new at this.. I've been around my bestfriends for 3 years now, but I still want to know if what I want to do is correct before I do it.

Feeding in the tank is also an ongoing debate. again personally I haven't found their to be any adverse effects of feeding ball pythons in their homes. I do it all the time and none of my ball pythons have ever even struck at me. Now my carpet python... that's a different story lol

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Feeding in the tank is also an ongoing debate. again personally I haven't found their to be any adverse effects of feeding ball pythons in their homes. I do it all the time and none of my ball pythons have ever even struck at me. Now my carpet python... that's a different story lol

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X2. All my snakes are fed in their tubs and I've seen no change in the amount of aggression (or lack there of) that they show me.

Unless your breeding the rats I don't see the point of feeding live... F/t tends to be cheaper easier to store and readily available. Also if a snake doesn't want to eat or is being shy you can leave it in the tub overnight. I hope everyone agrees that its not safe to do this with live.. The tricky part with bps is getting them to switch but if yours took it I'd stick to f/t.

That makes me feel alot better now. She is as calm as can be at all times so hopefully she will stay that way if I do continue to feed her in there. I may continue with the frozen since she is used to it and takes to it very quickly. And when I say she I'm not positive if she is not a he haha. I'm hoping she though bc if not he's stuck with a girls name now..

No need to feed in a separate enclosure. They're smarter than people give them credit for. As long as your hand isnt reeking of rat, they will understand that that is not food. Feeding live p/k or f/t is all in preference. 99% of the time I feed either live or p/k and on the off time when someone doesnt take their p/k it goes in the freezer for next week. I mostly use these for convenience. My rat source is live so it's easier for me to feed live or p/k versus f/t. When feeding live, no you do not hold the rat like with f/t or p/k, you just put the rat in the snakes tub or tank and let them do what nature designed them for. If you do feed live, I wouldnt leave the rat in there for more than a few hours at most. Not just because they can nibble on the snake but because it's stressful for the snake to have something in it's environment that it doesnt want. Also, I just want to make a comment about that picture of the half eaten snake. It's been around for quite some time and always seems to come up in the live v.s. frozen debates. What I want to know is really, how big was the rat that was put with that snake and how long it was left alone. I honestly dont think that much damage could have been done in even 24 hours. Something else I always wonder is if that snake was sick. I mean, it was obviously alive when the rat started chewing, so what snake would not defensively strike? Not saying live is the best or only way to go, just saying, I think that that photo has more at play than it states.

I have a quick question... If my collection gets large enough and I have he ability I would breed rats and feed live what do you guys do when your bp doesn't get a good grip on the rats?

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Originally Posted by MiamiRoyalPythons

No need to feed in a separate enclosure. They're smarter than people give them credit for. As long as your hand isnt reeking of rat, they will understand that that is not food. Feeding live p/k or f/t is all in preference. 99% of the time I feed either live or p/k and on the off time when someone doesnt take their p/k it goes in the freezer for next week. I mostly use these for convenience. My rat source is live so it's easier for me to feed live or p/k versus f/t. When feeding live, no you do not hold the rat like with f/t or p/k, you just put the rat in the snakes tub or tank and let them do what nature designed them for. If you do feed live, I wouldnt leave the rat in there for more than a few hours at most. Not just because they can nibble on the snake but because it's stressful for the snake to have something in it's environment that it doesnt want. Also, I just want to make a comment about that picture of the half eaten snake. It's been around for quite some time and always seems to come up in the live v.s. frozen debates. What I want to know is really, how big was the rat that was put with that snake and how long it was left alone. I honestly dont think that much damage could have been done in even 24 hours. Something else I always wonder is if that snake was sick. I mean, it was obviously alive when the rat started chewing, so what snake would not defensively strike? Not saying live is the best or only way to go, just saying, I think that that photo has more at play than it states.

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I agree for something that extreme to happen there must have been something else going on. I posted it in this thread because I feel that it shows the worst case of what can happen if proper care isn't taken when feeding live. I use to feed live and know that as long as you keep an eye on things you should be fine. But I feel that if your snake will take F/T or P/K it's safer and at least with F/T it is usually cheaper. To me it is just the logical thing to do: feed F/T or P/K if your snake will take them, and feed live if necessary. It isn't a big deal either way, and both methods require care.

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Originally Posted by benwallage9

I have a quick question... If my collection gets large enough and I have he ability I would breed rats and feed live what do you guys do when your bp doesn't get a good grip on the rats?

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Back when I fed mine live I would have a pencil to hold the mouse/rats head or feet away from my snake. I got sick of doing this and what I find to be more stress for me than was necessary so I made a CO2 gas chamber. later I moved to F/T because of the better prices.

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Originally Posted by benwallage9

I have a quick question... If my collection gets large enough and I have he ability I would breed rats and feed live what do you guys do when your bp doesn't get a good grip on the rats?

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I haven't had this issue in a lot of live feedings. I'd imagine that after a missed strike, the rat would most likely retreat to a corner, the snake would gather itself and go get it. I have not seen a rodent become the aggressor...not saying it couldn't happen, I just haven't seen it.

Then there are your strikes that are just a little off...the snake misses the head/neck. Not a big deal, as it constricts very quickly anyway. Sometimes it seems like the rat could bite while coiled, but again, not something I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by benwallage9

I have a quick question... If my collection gets large enough and I have he ability I would breed rats and feed live what do you guys do when your bp doesn't get a good grip on the rats?

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I've grabbed legs to keep them from scratching too much. I've stuck my feeding tongs in the rat's mouth to keep it from biting. The struggle usually doesn't last very long. These snakes are very good at what they do. ;)

Personally I wil not buy from a breeder whom feeds live just because it is so very inconvient for me to deal with live. I want animals that take FT and not have to struggle to convert FT to live is easier than live to FT.

I'm gonna stick to the frozen for now then, just because I know for a fact she will take to it.. and I honestly wouldn't want to have to break her and a mouse apart if the mouse was to get ahold of her instead. That'd be alot of teeth, a hurt and probably very mad snake and a mouse scared to death and ready to take my fingers with it too. Thank all of you for the help, you don't know how much it has helped and how much I appreciate it!

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Originally Posted by MiamiRoyalPythons

I mean, it was obviously alive when the rat started chewing, so what snake would not defensively strike? Not saying live is the best or only way to go, just saying, I think that that photo has more at play than it states.

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It's not really in a bp's nature to defensively lash out. Years ago, a friend of mine left a mouse in with a perfectly healthy juvenile bp for 2 days, and that mouse absolutely did a number on the snake's back, but nothing compared to that picture.

I'd guess that picture was taken after the snake and rat/mouse were left together for 4+ days.

Yeah I couldn't leave one in there with her alone.. I held the tail of the frozen on until she really decided she wanted it, which was something very amazing to watch and happens so fast.. but i don't have any tongs.. I held it with my fingers by the tip of the tail.. someone told me they don't always have the best aim but she was dead on. If she were to just happen to miss and get me on accident it would be my fault anyway but i don't honestly see that happening.. Frozen just seems to be alot safer after seeing what everyone is saying.. especially since she already takes to the frozen and does it without any hesitation.

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Originally Posted by boaz_21

Yeah I couldn't leave one in there with her alone.. I held the tail of the frozen on until she really decided she wanted it, which was something very amazing to watch and happens so fast.. but i don't have any tongs.. I held it with my fingers by the tip of the tail.. someone told me they don't always have the best aim but she was dead on. If she were to just happen to miss and get me on accident it would be my fault anyway but i don't honestly see that happening.. Frozen just seems to be alot safer after seeing what everyone is saying.. especially since she already takes to the frozen and does it without any hesitation.

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The problem comes when they see the heat from your finger and smell the rodent. Then you might be in trouble. I just use a pair of needle-nose pliers, and I've yet to been bit.

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Originally Posted by boaz_21

Yeah I couldn't leave one in there with her alone.. I held the tail of the frozen on until she really decided she wanted it, which was something very amazing to watch and happens so fast.. but i don't have any tongs.. I held it with my fingers by the tip of the tail.. someone told me they don't always have the best aim but she was dead on. If she were to just happen to miss and get me on accident it would be my fault anyway but i don't honestly see that happening.. Frozen just seems to be alot safer after seeing what everyone is saying.. especially since she already takes to the frozen and does it without any hesitation.

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I would suggest getting a set of tongs. They're not a NECESSITY...but I have a few (mostly my spider female) who get a little over zealous on feeding day and will strike at anything semi-warm (fingers included). I've also had the skin on the tail slough off after holding it for a bit, and that was a bit gross to me...

I can see what you mean now about the heat from my fingers, i wasn't really accounting for that.. I have some needle nose near me actually and I never really thought about using them. And I can definately see why that would gross you out.. That sounds digusting.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Personally I wil not buy from a breeder whom feeds live just because it is so very inconvient for me to deal with live. I want animals that take FT and not have to struggle to convert FT to live is easier than live to FT.

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Really! When I go to the expos it seems like all the breeders feed live. I've switched all of my snakes over to f/t without much trouble (knock on wood I just got a new snake that is use to live.)

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Back when I fed mine live I would have a pencil to hold the mouse/rats head or feet away from my snake. I got sick of doing this and what I find to be more stress for me than was necessary so I made a CO2 gas chamber. later I moved to F/T because of the better prices.

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Did you gas them then feed straight to snakes or freeze in between? Also how much do you think it cost you per rat when you raised them yourself? Or I guess how much more was it to breed your own? Also how big of a collection were you feeding?

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Originally Posted by benwallage9

Did you gas them then feed straight to snakes or freeze in between? Also how much do you think it cost you per rat when you raised them yourself? Or I guess how much more was it to breed your own? Also how big of a collection were you feeding?

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I would gas them then feed. There are people on here far more knowledgeable than me on here. My attempts at rat breeding utterly failed. I would sugest that you check out the rat breeding section of this site.

I had 5 snakes that I was feeding, 4 ball pythons and 1 carpet python.

I had 4 male rats and 12 female rats (1 male to 3 females per tank) I had 4 tanks and for whatever reason things never really got rolling. I produced a few litters but the smell was terrible and I live in a 1 bedroom apartment (college student :) ) once the initial cost of the rodents/tanks/water bottles/food dishes was paid for all I needed to get on a semi-regular basis was lab blocks and bedding. I honestly don't remember how much I spent but cost wasn't the main reason why I stopped.

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Originally Posted by boaz_21

I've heard alot of negatives about feeding them live mice... I fed her frozen today. Just wanted to know what all of you think about it?

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If she is taking F/T then continue with that method. I personally prefer Freshly Killed...not for the faint of heart though!...a minute before i am about to feed my ball pythons Zig & Zag ill tempt them out of there hides by holding the rat by its tail and kind of walking it around the enclosure to get the snakes interested then i will take the rat back out and kill it (cervical dislocation method, this and Co2 gassing are the most humane) then i will throw it back into there enclosures and they will strike and coil the rats straight away without any hesitation!
Hope this helped.

Gaz

ive been feeding my bp frozen since she was a hatchling, seems to eat them every week, havent had a feeding issue in the 6 months ive had her thank god. no point in changing now imo.

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Originally Posted by gazCOBRA-CHOKEhop

If she is taking F/T then continue with that method. I personally prefer Freshly Killed...not for the faint of heart though!...a minute before i am about to feed my ball pythons Zig & Zag ill tempt them out of there hides by holding the rat by its tail and kind of walking it around the enclosure to get the snakes interested then i will take the rat back out and kill it (cervical dislocation method, this and Co2 gassing are the most humane) then i will throw it back into there enclosures and they will strike and coil the rats straight away without any hesitation!
Hope this helped.

Gaz

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This is definitely always a debatable topic on here. If she is eating f/t or p/k, I would keep it that way. We started out with f/t, but found p/k was a little more convenient for us. All of our balls that we have had since hatching eat p/k in a separate tub. Our ball that we got as an adult, will only take alive in his tank. So basically do what ever works best for you and your snake, as each is different.

Been in the hobby now for about 6 years and still learning quite a bit everyday. I started out with frozen thawed so I really can't provide any input on live. I would rather keep an extra freezer with bulk frozen rats then breeding them or constantly going to the store to pick them up every week. Right now my collection is up to 10 including a jcp and just like anything else, I have a routine down on feeding day. Of course it takes some time to thaw them out and to get them warm, but this is all part of the hobby and that is what a day off from work is all about. I still have more then enough time to enjoy time with my family, dogs and to run errands. Plus my other half wouldn't allow any type of live rodent near our house so that my friends, was the deal breaker on doing f/t.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

http://www.deviantconstrictors.com/i...feed-live1.jpg

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This is not a Brutal evidence of what happen when people feed live :rage:

This is picture in no way reflect live feeding this picture is the poster picture for people who are pro F/T feeding which you might be yourself.

Those horrible stories you hear or horrible pictures you see are not the result of responsible live feeding they are the result of NEGLECT and I wish people would stop using those images or so call horror stories when giving advises.

If you leave a snake with a rodent for days and the rodent has no food or water yes this will likely be what will happen however this is not what responsible owner do.

Responsible owners feed an appropriate size prey, do not stress the prey item prior to feeding it off, supervise feeding and remove the prey after 20 minutes if left uneaten etc.

Interestingly enough why is it no one ever talks about snake's death due to improperly thawing a rodent :confused:. That would be another debate.

The KEYS here when it comes to feeding is RESPONSIBILITY and KNOWLEDGE

Know your options feed what you feel comfortable with and do it RESPONSIBLY whether it is live or F/T

People need to feed what works for them an their animals base on KNOWLEDGE not based on fear of the boogieman that is propagated by people with no real solid live feeding experience.

I mainly feed live I feed over 250 live prey each months and have done so for a few years and there is no horror story here and I am not the only one.

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Originally Posted by benwallage9

Really! When I go to the expos it seems like all the breeders feed live. I've switched all of my snakes over to f/t without much trouble (knock on wood I just got a new snake that is use to live.)

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The breeders I have bought from try to start FT they say they have about a 75% success rate with the first meal the hold outs get live. The switch is made after a few meals even for the hold outs. 100% have been switched in the first few months (3 different breeders) It isn't for mea massive safety issue but connivence there is just no way I am breeding rats unless it was on a large scale supply situation. To race out on or near feeding day to collect a bunch of rats and try to guess how many I will need (not all mine eat 100% of the time) And run the chance of running short of having extras just isn't practical and until my situation changes (retire...) It just isn't an option.

So no I will not buy a live feeder and be forced to try to switch it and if that fails sell the animal.

It isn't so much about the snake but me. It is inconvenient to buy live in a serious kinda way.