Determining proper prey size...

I found this interesting. Our local mom and pop store raise, and freeze, their own prey supply for the store - which I love btw. While trying to determine the proper prey size for our '09 bp the prey breeder, and snake owner, guy says that he goes by prey skull width compared to the width of the snake's jaw. He said that when choosing you want to feed nothing with a skull wider that the snake's jaw. I found this interesting. Both weight and width seem to be hard way to go because your snake could be either a) overweight or b) underweight and this could lead to an improper prey size. What do you think about this?

I think that if a snake wasn't meant to eat something wider than its jaw then nature wouldn't have given a snake the ability to spread out their bottom jaw to almost twice its size. But that's just me. I've never heard this before and I'm not buying stock in it. But thanks for bringing it up cause I'm interested in what people think.

Isn't the point of a snake dislocating its jaw so that it can eat prey larger than its head (and therefore more valuable to it in terms of calorie/nutrient intake)?

I go by 15% of the snakes body weight.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I go by 15% of the snakes body weight.

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X2 and only up to 100g prey item.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I go by 15% of the snakes body weight.

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But what if your snake is chunky?

I think what I am saying is being missed. I'm speaking of skull of prey to jaw width of snake comparison. The size of the skull is not proportional to the size of the body. A rat, or mouse, has a small non squishy head compared to its larger but squishy body. The skull also doesn't crush while the shoulder girdle, ribs, and pelvic girdle does.

And our guy is chunky. The "proper" sized prey compared to his weight is HUGE. I don't want him to be even more chunky.

As babies and adolecents they really aren't considered chunky cause they are constantly growing. That's also kina how balls look. But that's also why I would stop at 100g prey item due to obesity in adults but there are signs of a obese snake. Skin between scales and such. But if you are at the 100g prey size then feed every 10 days instead of 7 or if you feed every 10 the go to every 14. But I don't see an obesity problem happening if you stay by those guidelines. Ofcourse anything is possible but not likely.

Post a pic if you are concerned and you will get your answer.:)

i think this may be true as snakes aim at the head when they strike, to nutralise their prey, but when they strike they do not stretch their jaw untill they have killed their prey and begin to eat it. So it would make sense not to feed a head bigger than the jaw. But thats just my opinion:P

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Originally Posted by bclose93

i think this may be true as snakes aim at the head when they strike, to nutralise their prey, but when they strike they do not stretch their jaw untill they have killed their prey and begin to eat it. So it would make sense not to feed a head bigger than the jaw. But thats just my opinion:P

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They are also not swallowing when they strike and they can open their mouths to just about 180 degrees if not all the way to 180 degrees. They can bite your big calf or thigh if they wish so there is no need for this during a strike having felt I've seen enough to know. And the can strike anywhere on the prey not just the head but irrelavent due to that the head is the smallest place on a prey items body. So I still see no sense In that arguement.

Plus there is a reason snakes eat prey head first. Yes a skull does not give as a stomach does but I have never seen a snake struggle to swallow the head of a prey item. If anything it is the easiest part the jaw doesn't even fully expand until it reaches the body.

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Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

He said that when choosing you want to feed nothing with a skull wider that the snake's jaw. I found this interesting. Both weight and width seem to be hard way to go because your snake could be either a) overweight or b) underweight and this could lead to an improper prey size. What do you think about this?

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I think it would be pretty much the same as feeding based on the girth of the snake.

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Originally Posted by VEXER19

But that's also why I would stop at 100g prey item due to obesity in adults but there are signs of a obese snake.

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Ball pythons are capable of eating rats far larger than 100 grams regularly without ever become obese.

Ball pythons are capable of eating rats far larger than 100 grams regularly without ever become obese.[/QUOTE]

Ofcourse they can. Its more of a guideline not a must. But that's a whole other debate in itself.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

I think it would be pretty much the same as feeding based on the girth of the snake.

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To clarify, the size of the rat would most likely end up being roughly the same if you are feeding based on girth or skull size.

RobNJ... That's my thoughts too. My guy weighs in at a whopping 794 grams. 15% is 114 grams. He is no where near full grown at a bit less than 2 yrs old and about 30-36 inches long.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

To clarify, the size of the rat would most likely end up being roughly the same if you are feeding based on girth or skull size.

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Agreed in most cases. But I stil go with 15% over both skull size and girth. Obviously stating that girth should be checked too.

And for your viewing pleasure... Most of our big boy.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/t...m/82656cc2.jpg

And this guy is a good point made. A rat as big around as him is HUGE and would be way to big 15% wise. Based on skull size we picked the perfect sized rat.

He looks perfect. Doesn't look chunky to me at all

He's slimmed down a bit during our switch from live mice to f/t mice and then rats. Lol. He also just grew. He was getting pretty chunky ;)

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Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

He's slimmed down a bit during our switch from live mice to f/t mice and then rats. Lol. He also just grew. He was getting pretty chunky ;)

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Lol I bet. Sometimes I think they just grow over night. But then again they practically do.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I go by 15% of the snakes body weight.

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I am curious how many 375 to 480 grams rats have you fed to your BP unless of course you do not have 2500 grams - 3500 grams BP.

Ideally feeding smaller preys to adults is recommended for safety reasons as well as allowing them to feed with more constancy.

Large animals including 3500 grams animals do not need large preys to thrive.

In general I feed hatchlings and juvies a prey = their girth size without ever feeding anything larger than 120 grams rat even to my largest adults.

Can they take down larger preys? Yes, do they need to? No

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I am curious how many 375 to 480 grams rats have you fed to your BP unless of course you do not have 2500 grams - 3500 grams BP.

Ideally feeding smaller preys to adults is recommended for safety reasons as well as allowing them to feed with more constancy.

Large animals including 3500 grams animals do not need large preys to thrive.

In general I feed hatchlings and juvies a prey = their girth size without ever feeding anything larger than 120 grams rat even to my largest adults.

Can they take down larger preys? Yes, do they need to? No

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Well said as always. I always assumed around 100g but if you say 120g then knowing your knowledge my opinion has just changed on max feeding by 20g.

I feed by girth, and have never had any inclination to feed by body weight percentage. With any larger females, the only thing I use girth for is a maximum prey size. They feed well on anything from 125ish to 250+ grams, depending on what I have available, with no issues regarding safety or consistency.

Well... a small, medium sized rat weighs in a 114 g. A large rat is probably pretty darn heavy ;) My sister's 5 1/2' fem bp eats two adult male rats every two weeks and still looks around for more :O

In my opinion, your BP looks fine as far as weight goes. BPs are supposed to be more "rounded" bodied snakes.

I've never heard of this skull size thing...feeding between 10-15% of the snake's weight or a prey item approximately as big around as the snake is, is an excellent way to judge prey size. It doesn't have to be exact, and if the prey is a little big bigger around or smaller around than the snake, no problem. They were made for this kind of thing.

I, too, max my feeders out at around 100-120 grams. Every now and then someone gets a bigger one when one comes along.

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Originally Posted by KatStoverReptiles

In my opinion, your BP looks fine as far as weight goes. BPs are supposed to be more "rounded" bodied snakes.

I've never heard of this skull size thing...feeding between 10-15% of the snake's weight or a prey item approximately as big around as the snake is, is an excellent way to judge prey size. It doesn't have to be exact, and if the prey is a little big bigger around or smaller around than the snake, no problem. They were made for this kind of thing.

I, too, max my feeders out at around 100-120 grams. Every now and then someone gets a bigger one when one comes along.

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Agreed. I just don't understand people desire to feed any more than that. It is not neccesary can can only do more bad then good. Just because a ball can eat more doesn't mean it should.

Quick question for those that say 100-120 g is the max prey size... How big is your biggest BP? I have a hard time believing that a 5+ foot BP is going to thrive on one 120 gram rat given every 7-10 days.

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Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

Quick question for those that say 100-120 g is the max prey size... How big is your biggest BP? I have a hard time believing that a 5+ foot BP is going to thrive on one 120 gram rat given every 7-10 days.

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Once they reach their adult size, their metabolism slows down quite a bit and they need considerably less. As is the case with most animals.

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Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

Quick question for those that say 100-120 g is the max prey size... How big is your biggest BP? I have a hard time believing that a 5+ foot BP is going to thrive on one 120 gram rat given every 7-10 days.

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I don't but from what I've heard from plenty who do that it is plenty for a snake that size that is no longer growing.

My big big girls get a rat that is around 200gs. But they are 3000-4000g. I classify 200g rats small mediums. That's the largest ill go. Everyone else usually gets weanlings.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

My big big girls get a rat that is around 200gs. But they are 3000-4000g. I classify 200g rats small mediums. That's the largest ill go. Everyone else usually gets weanlings.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Now that's some big girls...lol

I feed according to the individual snake. Some of my girls have voracious appetizers and if I feed them small rats in a few days seem starving and are ready to strike as soon as you open the tub therefore these girls get larger rats. I have other girls that don't like bigger rats and will shy away from them so they get smaller rats. I don't have a ton of BP's (just 20) but out of my say 2009 girls the ones that eat the larger rats are 300-500grams bigger than the ones that eat smaller rats. I have a 4189 gram normal ( I weighed her today) who is a super aggressive feeder and eats every week never missing a meal whom once in awhile I'll feed her a jumbo retired rat breeder and she eats them like nothing.. She had a 13 egg clutch for me last year..

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Large animals including 3500 grams animals do not need large preys to thrive.

In general I feed hatchlings and juvies a prey = their girth size without ever feeding anything larger than 120 grams rat even to my largest adults.

Can they take down larger preys? Yes, do they need to? No

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May I ask the weight of your largest adult(s) ? I remember Adam Wysocki feeding adults around 50 grams a week. I' m convinced that feeding smaller prey items results in more consistence feeding and better results in long-term. But 50 grams seems me a bit low, while 200 grams seems to much.
So i wondered what your results are with this +- 120 gram rule. Do your adult females that you use for breeding still grow over the years with a 120 gram prey. And do you feed more before breeding season?

Thanks in advance.