Some care sheets

Hi All,
Started a new website that has some stuff for sale, as well as care sheets being posted up for various species (ball pythons, amazon tree boas, candoia, leptodiera, and so on - more to come as I have the time).

Take a look!
http://nyexotics.blogspot.com/p/tear-care.html

Thanks!
Chris:D

Hi,

Downloads don't work - just direct you to sign in to google sites as they are https links.

The downloads are working now. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, they should be working now. I had a filter accidentally set.

Your caresheet for ball pythons says the hot spot should be at 90 celsius, which is 194 degrees F, which is obviously way too hot, i'd imagine its a typo, but you might want to go in and fix that

I just read the other two and they all say celsius

Thank you! I just realized I have all the temps labeled as C when they should be F... science teaching habit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bioteacher

Thank you! I just realized I have all the temps labeled as C when they should be F... science teaching habit

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Totally understandable, I just wouldnt want someone new to snakes to use yours as reference and cook their snakes alive, I doubt that would actually happen, but you never know

Great site btw, I like how you have a caresheet for the cat eye snakes, I cant recall ever seeing one for them before, but I really want one so it will help some day, now im gonna go check out the rest of the site

Fixed the labeling mistake - not a good start:mad:

Hi,

I don't know about letting the night time temps drop as low as 73-75f either. :oops:

I don't let mine drop much below 80f at all.


dr del

Thanks for the help. My temps get down in the mid/low 70s every night. I've had absolutely no respiratory issues or other issues. They all eat weekly, some will even eat once every 5 days (not recommended to let them though - I've only done this to add weight to underweight individuals that I've bought). All digest, defecate, and are active in a normal way.:)

No issues whatsoever.

You have some amazing photo's on there too, what camera do you use?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cmack91

Great site btw, I like how you have a caresheet for the cat eye snakes, I cant recall ever seeing one for them before, but I really want one so it will help some day, now im gonna go check out the rest of the site

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Thanks! Working on getting a better site together for my photo stuff (not really good with html and coding though).

The cat-eyeds are really neat - some people are jaded to them since they're really common when herping in the tropics. You can find them on Kingsnake from DTS Herps sometimes. I should have some CBB individuals this year if all goes well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cmack91

You have some amazing photo's on there too, what camera do you use?

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Thanks again! I shoot with a Nikon D700 and 3 lenses (14-24 - love this one, 70-300, and 105 macro)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bioteacher

Thanks again! I shoot with a Nikon D700 and 3 lenses (14-24 - love this one, 70-300, and 105 macro)

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Of course the D700, it seems that all the good pictures I see now days are shot with that camera, I got to get me one of those... Some day haha

General Candoia species, amazon tree boa, ball python, and banded cat-eyed snake care sheets posted!

I too would say that 73 is the extreme end of low. I don't like seeing under 76º and never for ambient air temps. I would also point out that 88ºF ambient with a hot spot of 90º will not allow thermoregulation and again is on the extreme end of hot. I own Royal that is 5 foot 5 so 5 feet is clearly short i believe the longest (oldest too and largest) was just shy of 6 feet. A 20 gal tub I think that is also in error.

Royal python comes from the Latin, regius, royal. I believe regius came from the Dahomey tribe's worship of the species. I believe they built temples to them and houses for them the CITES expedition were banned from the Dahomey home land as it is un acceptable to disturb Royal pythons in any way. The first description of the species came from a visiter of the Dahomey tribe (I can't recall the name of the man now)

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I too would say that 73 is the extreme end of low. I don't like seeing under 76º and never for ambient air temps. I would also point out that 88ºF ambient with a hot spot of 90º will not allow thermoregulation and again is on the extreme end of hot. I own Royal that is 5 foot 5 so 5 feet is clearly short i believe the longest (oldest too and largest) was just shy of 6 feet. A 20 gal tub I think that is also in error.

Royal python comes from the Latin, regius, royal. I believe regius came from the Dahomey tribe's worship of the species. I believe they built temples to them and houses for them the CITES expedition were banned from the Dahomey home land as it is un acceptable to disturb Royal pythons in any way. The first description of the species came from a visiter of the Dahomey tribe (I can't recall the name of the man now)

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My bps are completely healthy and grow really well without overfeeding. I feed about once a week and they've all put on close to 125 grams of weight a month. No respiratory issues, all very active... never an issue. These are also temps that are recommended by a lot of keepers. All of my snakes have not had health issues and all my bps are eating without fail and shed perfect.

As for tub size, most keepers use 41 quart tubs - which is just over 10 gallons. I prefer to give my snakes some room to move. So stuffing them into a small space, may give them security, but also makes them more sedentary. Bigger cages with hides for them to feel secure works perfect... and also allows for a greater temp gradient so they can better regulate body temp. a 10 gallon tub won't have much of a gradient because of available space.

The 5 ft mark is for averages, obviously there will be exceptions. I don't want to put the maximum mark for each species. That'd be like me saying the bps have clutches between 3 and 20+ --> better to give an average.

As for the name, you may be correct. I only know what I've read. And I've read it in several places, which is why I've listed the facts I did.

Oh well - everyone has a way of doing things. I just know other keepers use the same specs as I do and are very successful. I'll make sure to add a side note that any diligent keeper should do their research. :-)

"Ball Pythons also do well in rack systems, housed in 20-gallon tubs." 20 gal is 80 quarts... that is a hell of a rack. The largest rubbermaid clear...


"Mist once daily to prevent poor shedding." I guess you have humidity problems? Not everyone does. Recommending a bandaid fix rather than addressing the problem is IMO not good advise.

The maternal incubation temps 78ºC cooked eggs or 78ºF cold ones?

"Wild caught individuals tend to have an attitude and are very defensive. They will strike repeatedly until tired or they feel secure."

"When Ball Pythons feel threatened they will coil up into a ball and hide their heads"

Make up your mind they either strike when defensive or ball up.

Have you ever dealt with a WC snake? I have 2 and have never seen this behaviour. Presenting myth as fact, again I have an issue with.

I have seen a lot of care sheets for royals never suggesting temps as low as you are or ambient as high. They need to thermal regulate and 2 degrees is not enough to allow for this.

I can plainly see that you are unwilling to take any comments from anyone (Dr. Del for example) I hope that you don't cause serious health problems in someone else's animals with your advice.

All I know is that what I do works and works well. I also know what I've researched and read - from multiple sources. Even just googling their care, you'll find a few sources right away.

80-88% isn't two degrees - it's 8. Which is more than enough to thermoregulate. On one end of my tanks there is a heat source, the other end there is none, providing a gradient.

My apologies on the 20 gallon "rack." That is a mistype. 20 gallon aquariums are what I use. You are correct, that would be one hell of a big rack system. I don't necessarily agree with it, but the racks recommended are 41-quart which would be small in my opinion - but it works for most people.

The misting is simply to try to get full sheds. My bps will shed at 60% humidity, but a lot will shed in pieces. If I mist once a day to increase humidity for a short period of time, I've found that my bps will shed full body in one piece. I don't want humidity higher because it could cause ri problems I believe.

I've dealt with both behaviors in w/c and cbb animals - striking and balling up, which is why both are listed. I've had several animals that will ball up on me and then several that will sit and attempt to bite, hissing, and puffing up - particularly my black pastels. So in my experience, yeah both situations occur.

And I have recommended this care to several other keepers in my area and have had no issues. If you don't agree that's fine, but if it works and no one has complained because it works, then what problem are you having? There has been no issues with this husbandry info for myself or the other keepers I know that use these specs. If you just like arguing, we can pick a topic and you're welcome to pm me and argue about it. I know I don't know everything, but I am confident in what I know, how I research, and my husbandry knowledge because it's been tested and works. As for my willingness to make changes, I have taken comments and made changes - correcting Celsius where it should read Fahrenheit and changing the 20-gallon rack system.

Also, if you're going to be so critical please read through and "correct" the husbandry problems you have with my Candoia, Leptodiera, and Corallus care sheets. Next will be Sibon and Varanus, so read up!

I am not trying to be mean or petty with this criticisms. There are so many poor, in accurate and myth filled care sheets out there that adding one more is infuriating.

Part of what I see is what you have written on the sheet and what you have said here you intended are not the same.

If I may start at the top...

life span I am guessing you intended average life span as there are a number of animals that have been in captivity for over 40 years 30 clearly isn' a max recorded age. Same for size...

temps...

I disagree about the 73ºF, I, and many other feel that this is too cool to be healthy.


"75 or below is unhealthy. Night drops in temps are not necessary or desired"

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

"The ideal ambient temperature of the tank should be maintained at 80-83 degrees. There should be a basking spot of 90 degrees and a cool spot with a temperature of 80.

Night time temperatures around 75-80 are acceptable. "

http://www.reptileuv.com/reptile-car...all-python.php


"it's a better maintenance practice to provide a temperature gradient for ball pythons; in other words, one end of the cage is 8-10 degrees F warmer than the other end, with the cooler end of the cage averaging 77-80 degrees F."

http://www.vpi.com/publications/the_...hon_care_sheet

"Night time temperature drops are not required and a minimum ambient temperature of 80 F should be maintained at all times."

http://www.theurbanpython.com/caring-ball-python

"Ball Pythons favorites include ASFs, Gerbils, Hamsters, and Quail" it sounds like you mean that in addition to rats and or mice to feed these items as a 'treat' or something.

I agree that to high humidity often leads to respiratory issues. What you mean and what you have written are not the same thing you have told some poor unsuspecting person to mist an enclosure every day. My enclosures hold 60% accurate with no misting if I misted everyday I would hit 95-100% and keep it there. Perhaps not what you ment but what you have written. Same for the gradient you have stated a daytime temp 80-88 with a hot spot of 90. 90-88=2. what you intended is not what you have written.

I usually don't mist at all, I always have complete sheds if the humidity is between 55-65% If you are not I would suggest the hygrometer is in accurate (salt test to verify) or stress could be a cause as well.

There is enough debate over enclosure sizes that it is a grey area I personally believe that it isn't enclosure but the keeper whom makes the difference.

Same for breeding personally I think you have quoted on the small side but I am overly careful and see no reason to rush things.

I believe your maternal incubation temps are off.

I know people whom would want to debate the existence subspecies in particular the "Saharan" region animals. It isn't recognized but... perhaps a debate over beer. Many amateur herpers refer to it as a subspecies.

I have pointed out my issue with temperament... I have never seen a royal strike repeatedly until it was to tired to continue to be honest of the few hundred I have handled I have only seen 2 or 3 that were willing to strike and then only once or twice and all of them were CB all the WC animals I have encountered would just ball up.

I have pointed out that Cleopatra is far from 'FACT' at best it is a story. You have presented it as fact just by calling it an interesting Fact. I believe royal come from the correct latin name
Python regius (python = pythonidae shortened and regius = Royal or the royal or royal one )

Honestly not worth the debate anymore, I'll close this thread for you as it has just turned into a back-and-forth between me and you.

Just a side note though - the specs I use work and they work well. My BPs wouldn't be healthy, active, and putting on weight if they didn't work.

Just a clarification on the 41 quart tubs vs. the 20 gallon tanks.

41 qt. is 34.75" x 16.5"

20 gal. long is 30" x 12"

The 41 quart has more room to move around.

As far as the ambient temps, the snakes in my living room are kept in glass tanks and the ambient temps on winter nights is 67 degrees. The snakes stay in hides over heating pads so the temps inside the hides is higher but I'm not sure how much. They have been very healthy for many years.