Would like some opinion's on my pursuit of Killer clown's?

Hey all,
I'm in the process of picking up a male pastel clown and a female pastel 100% het clown from garrick demeyer (royalconstrictordesign). My goal is to get Killer clown's.
He has some offspring that he produced in 2009. A super reduced pattern pastel clown and a killer clown. Both were from the same clutch. But, the thing is he breed a pastel het clown to a pastel het clown (I assume a pastel 100% het clown is the same bp as a pastel het clown? Just that some people drop the saying of the 100% over and over?)
What I want to know is? Are my chances in hatching a killer clown greater or less with a combo of a pastel het clownXpastel het clown? Or, is my chances even better with the pastel clown X pastel 100% het clown? If, I have the same chances with either combo's in my pursuit of killer clown's? Why not go the cheaper route and pickup the pastel het clownXpastel het clown?
Here are my choices for a pastel clown? Which do you all like if you had to choose for yourself?

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...58ec6abd91.jpg $3500
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...acc3eda79e.jpg $3500
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...20d4d1acb3.jpg$4500 brighter yellows and super reduced pattern
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...22327392_n.jpg
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...1448886d22.jpg $4500 broken line
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...8a4ab61669.jpg another view
All these pic's belong to garrick except the second picture of the reduced pattern male. That one belong's to midsouthmorphs.
TY Gerrad

The 100% bet has nothing to do with what is passed on to future generations. A snake that is het for clown will always have a 50% chance of passing that recessive gene on.

The 100% refers to what chance that snake has for carrying that recessive gene. So a 100% het for clown has a 100% chance of being het for clown. A 66% het clown has 66% chance for being her for clown. That means that there is a 44% chance that it is just a normal ball python. 100% hets or visual morphs are the fastest and most reliable way to produce visual recessives.

If you plan on working with recessive genetics (clown) I sugest you do some research on how they work. It is much more complicated than co-dom genetics like many ball python morphs.

A pastel clown x pastel het clown will give you better odds than pastel het x pastel het. Check out the morph calculator on worldofballpythons.com for combo odds questions.

Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png




Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

So, the Pastel Clown X Patel Het Clown gives you double the chance of hitting a Killer Clown.

I kinda figured that it would be to easy if I did the pastel het clown X pastel het clown combo. Thank you jinx for clarifying thing's. Garrick also told me the break down.

If you are going to spend that kind of cash, I would get the higher end one. The $4500 one does look nicer IMO.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

If you are going to spend that kind of cash, I would get the higher end one. The $4500 one does look nicer IMO.

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You mean the broken line male (last two pic's?). Yea, he does have really nice yellow's actually. Garrick sent me some pic's from dec thru text. And, he looked really good. At, the time I was looking at the broken line clown and a solid stripe clown. The broken line clown had the deeper brighter yellows compared to the other. But, I was stuck on the solid line on the other pastel clown. I was going to choose the broken line pastel clown but someone influenced me to look toward a solid stripe pastel clown. I think it was a youtube video I watched about his pastel clown. How his had a complete line on it's back and made me then lean toward a solid line pastel clown.
I wouldn't mind choosing the broken line pastel clown male. But, I wonder if his broken line will pass down to the babies (which I know is kinda dumb ?)? Or, will each pastel clown baby have a chance at a solid stripe even thou the dad has a incomplete line? If, you look closely on the male? His neck is broken and near his rear end he has some pattern's that cover the line. I know it's weird not to choose him just because of a silly line,lol. Maybe I will consider him since he does have a exceptional yellow complexion. Thank you for me to reconsider him.

I'd definitely go with the middle one...unbroken dorsal, reduced pattern...very nice snake.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG957054.jpgHere's the pic of the broken line from dec thru text. He should be the one on the right. The solid line is sold.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...8a4ab61669.jpgwebsite pic
Garrick today said he would send me a updated pic

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

I'd definitely go with the middle one...unbroken dorsal, reduced pattern...very nice snake.

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Yea, I do like the super reduced pattern on this male. But, I also like a pastel clown with some busy side pattern's.
I wonder if the super reduced pattern is just a random outcome? I wonder if all of his offspring will carry this super reduced pattern? hm

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG958510.jpgHere's today's pic of the broken line. Very nice but I still kinda want the other male.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...58ec6abd91.jpgI think with alittle more shed's and more growth and weight. This male should be just or close in yellow brightness as the broken line. IMO

Ok, so here is a updated picture (today) of the male that I think I will go with. He is HOT! But, I do notice he is not as yellow as the broken line which I know. But, then again the broken line pastel 3 is older by a month or so. And, here is the female pastel 100%het clown. Garrick only has her left from 11' season. She's nice I do notice from the picture that her body there seem's to be a slight slope in her back near her head? Like the contour is not completely portion from head to toe (figurely speaking,lol.) . Or, it's just the angle and I'm over looking the picture. As, long as she gives me my killer clown then that's all I need.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...IMG9511121.jpg
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG959497.jpg

That really reduced guy is amazing, but the one you chose would have been my second choice and is probably a better value. Looking forward to seeing what you will make with that pair in 2-3 years. I produced a bunch of pastel 100% het clowns myself this past season using a clown male and 2 pastel girls. I can't wait to get these babies up to size.

For those that think I should pick the super reduced pastel clown male? Please tell me WHY you guy's think I should choose him? Is a super reduced pattern rare? Does it make the offspring more unique? Is it just because you like a blank clean canvas on bps? I know the yellow will stay thru out it's life garrick has a yearling that is still bright yellow. Will the babies have this super reduced pattern? Will see

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Originally Posted by Gbusiness

For those that think I should pick the super reduced pastel clown male? Please tell me WHY you guy's think I should choose him? Is a super reduced pattern rare? Does it make the offspring more unique? Is it just because you like a blank clean canvas on bps? I know the yellow will stay thru out it's life garrick has a yearling that is still bright yellow. Will the babies have this super reduced pattern? Will see

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It depends on the morph...some things I like busy, others I prefer reduced. When it comes to clowns, reduced makes for a much more desirable snake in my opinion. Pair him up with a clean, bright yellow pastel het clown, and you're bound to make some INCREDIBLE babies.

Clowns are not my thing at all, but that reduced pattern pastel clown makes me rethink that, because that is a striking animal, IMO. The other ones you've shown us just don't do anything for me.

The really reduced pattern clowns are in higher demand just because most people seem to prefer that look. It appears randomly, a reduced snake can make reduced babies and busy babies . A pair of busy clowns can throw a reduced baby as well, but logic says that the reduced ones are more likely to produce more reduced ones.

Reduced clowns are not exactly rare, but there are definitely more busy ones and not so reduced ones available than there are reduced ones. A clown that is both reduced AND a pastel is very hard to come by.

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

The really reduced pattern clowns are in higher demand just because most people seem to prefer that look. It appears randomly, a reduced snake can make reduced babies and busy babies . A pair of busy clowns can throw a reduced baby as well, but logic says that the reduced ones are more likely to produce more reduced ones.

Reduced clowns are not exactly rare, but there are definitely more busy ones and not so reduced ones available than there are reduced ones. A clown that is both reduced AND a pastel is very hard to come by.

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Interesting.

So, let's picture this combo peep's!
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...22327392_n.jpgGarrick's baby boy
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...s5/28swz8i.jpgJake's baby girl (thereptileenthusiast) pastel het clown. I hope you didn't me posting your pic? And, I would hope we can work out a deal? :rolleye2:

I've been thinking yesterday about the time it will take to raise up these juvi pastel clown X pastel het clown to breeding size? The time it will take to raise a clutch. And, the chances of me possibly or not getting any killer clown's in my first try?
Would I be a lazy bum if I just skipped another step and bought a sweet Killer Clown now!

If it's financially an option for you and that's what you want, go for it.

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Originally Posted by Gbusiness

I've been thinking yesterday about the time it will take to raise up these juvi pastel clown X pastel het clown to breeding size? The time it will take to raise a clutch. And, the chances of me possibly or not getting any killer clown's in my first try?
Would I be a lazy bum if I just skipped another step and bought a sweet Killer Clown now!

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If money isn't a big deal, I say go for the Killer Clown now.

If you want to breed your own, then I suggest just buying a female for now. It'll take her twice as long to get to breeding size compared to males. Males can breed as young as 6 months old depending on its size. So you can always get the male at a later date. And who knows, maybe prices will go down then. And there's always the option of leasing a male as well if you could find somebody who's willing to do so. So you don't actually have to buy and raise one.

And that female you had your eye on from thereptileenthusiast is fantastic! Very bright and clean. Females are always desirable no matter what morph it is. And they gain value with size.

Yea, I just found out that female pastel het clown in that picture that I compared to the reduced male? Is not for sale it's a holdback. But, he does have another female that is for sale but is rather dull looking. He is going to send me some updated pic's to show off the real color's.
Garrick has a female KC that he is willing to give me a good deal on. And, he has one good egg from a clutch that had all slug's. I'm waiting to find out if it is a male KC! If, it is he want's more for it but I may still bite.
I'll let you guy's know what I finally do.

New combo pair! The baby in the egg is possibly a super pastel het clown. I'll find out on monday if it's a boy. If so, I'm going to pair it with his female Killer Clown!!!!!!!!!:banana::banana::rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Gbusiness

New combo pair! The baby in the egg is possibly a super pastel het clown. I'll find out on monday if it's a boy. If so, I'm going to pair it with his female Killer Clown!!!!!!!!!:banana::banana::rolleye2:

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Jeez, wish I had that much disposable income. :(

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Originally Posted by Gbusiness

New combo pair! The baby in the egg is possibly a super pastel het clown. I'll find out on monday if it's a boy. If so, I'm going to pair it with his female Killer Clown!!!!!!!!!:banana::banana::rolleye2:

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With that kind of cash, a few more bucks would get you that banana you're saying you wish you could afford. ;)

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Originally Posted by Shadera

With that kind of cash, a few more bucks would get you that banana you're saying you wish you could afford. ;)

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Just a few more buck's and that's it eh? lol Garrick does have a female banana and a few more bananas he just purchased. I think he is selling the one but the younger ones he's keeping for his new projects. hehe

Everyone? Put on your SUNGLASSES please! http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG952888.jpg:taz: :O :banana:
This is a updated picture

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Originally Posted by Gbusiness

Everyone? Put on your SUNGLASSES please! http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG952888.jpg:taz: :O :banana:
This is a updated picture

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-drool- :eek:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

I just found out the baby in the egg?Ended up being a pastel female. Boo I guess the kc will have to stay single.:(

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Originally Posted by Gbusiness

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...58ec6abd91.jpg
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...20d4d1acb3.jpg

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AWESOME!!!! I want one sooooo bad.:tears:

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Originally Posted by Gbusiness

I just found out the baby in the egg?Ended up being a pastel female. Boo I guess the kc will have to stay single.:(

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No need to rush on the male, she won't breed for a couple years anyways, and you will probably have bigger plans for her than just more killer clowns by then. It would almost be a waste to put "just" a pastel clown on a female like that. Wait until you see the crazy clown stuff that is gonna hatch out this year.

Here you all go a updated pic of the "super reduced pattern male" :P.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG959887.jpgI'll admit he is pretty stunning now. And, I would consider him also for sure! Can you say "super reduced Killer clown"?

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

No need to rush on the male, she won't breed for a couple years anyways, and you will probably have bigger plans for her than just more killer clowns by then. It would almost be a waste to put "just" a pastel clown on a female like that. Wait until you see the crazy clown stuff that is gonna hatch out this year.

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Yea, you are right jake. Hey? Are you following me? hehe I still would love to produce a "Killer Banana"! Yes folk's I am the first to put that combo on the web! (lol, I have no idea ....maybe not. But, I did think of it a few day's ago :D)