Substrateless Method of Incubation

does anyone have a link on this? i heard of someone using soaked sponges in a little big of water for this and the grating over this... and in a different thread someone mentioned using a "push to seal" ? not sure what that meant

ill be having my first clutch soon and ive heard this method is very very hard to mess up, any and all help is much appreciated

push to seal I think is a type of saran-wrap

check out these:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/sim-incubation-box

The only purpose for substrate in incubation is to keep the humidity high as long as possible. It doesn't matter what you use as long as your humidity is at the right level. I use vermiculite because it seems to hold humidity really well and then I use a light diffuser on top so that I dont worry about having the vermiculite too wet. Push n seal is a plastic that you place over the container, it basically helps seal the humidity in better.

from what ive read substrateless is the way to go.. why dont more breeders do it? i was going to use a 10qt tub with light defuser on 1.5" spacers over water and sponge... do you think this will work?

all that matters is that the box stays at the right temperature and humidity level as much as possible, and that when the snakes hatch they can't drown or otherwise hurt themselves.

Sounds like it would work but I have never done it before.

kinda seems like to kinda mimic the SIM system i could use my ex girlfriends MASSIVE bobby pin collection scattered throughout the house to secure the eggs in place and kinda seems fool proof?

just make sure there isn't any sharp edges or anything else that could harm the little guys

I know that most people i have seen use vermiculite and a light diffuser with great results. all of the big breeders do this as well. I won't have my first clutch until at least next breeding season, but I will probably go that route.

The substrate method has been around a long time and I bet you that even the big breeders learned with that method. It has worked for years and most people go by the quote "if it aint broke, don't fix it". A new substrate-less method will mean having to change a lot of things especially big breeders, not to mention that the big breeders clutches are usually pretty high dollar and they probably wouldnt want to take a chance on a new method. Also, someone mentioned drowning, thats something to worry about and can be avoided, however it would probably take some rigging of a tub etc, that would take a lot of time for the "big breeders".

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Originally Posted by jball1125

The substrate method has been around a long time and I bet you that even the big breeders learned with that method. It has worked for years and most people go by the quote "if it aint broke, don't fix it". A new substrate-less method will mean having to change a lot of things especially big breeders, not to mention that the big breeders clutches are usually pretty high dollar and they probably wouldnt want to take a chance on a new method. Also, someone mentioned drowning, thats something to worry about and can be avoided, however it would probably take some rigging of a tub etc, that would take a lot of time for the "big breeders".

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I can totally dig that and this being my first season im not sure what to really expect, thus why im thinking this method that doesn't require me to buy and mix these things would be more beneficial to me. I am going to produce a clutch with spiders and a clutch with pins.. hopefully.. next year ill have more projects that i can work with and all that but i really am focusing on learning what i can and hopefully producing healthy 'neonates' still trying to learn more about this water only method...

Sorry to steal thread but does anyone still let the momma incubate them herself

The substrateless method is just too easy, I wouldn't do it any other way, even with my high dollar clutches...
There's really no need for seal a meal on a substrateless tub set up, the humidity level is easy to reach without it, and with it you have to worry about mold build up.
We switched from vermiculite to perilite mostly because it's cleaner, I like it a lot better than vermiculite.

vermiculite and a light diffuser is what i use.

This is what I do, super easy! I used hatchrite because I had some left over from last year when I tried putting the eggs directly on it-I won't do that again. You can find some perlite locally rather than use hatchrite, just make sure it doesn't have any fertilizer in it. You don't need to use press 'n seal if you are going substrateless.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ding/001-3.jpg

I wouldn't use any other method either.. Look at this pic. I use cross stitch plastic canvas under the light diffuser grate as well. (it's easy to cut with scissors and only about $.60 per sheet at craft stores) It allows you to completely drench the hatchrite so there is absolutely NO fear of it drying out during the entire incubation time and the light diffuser grate will not sink in it under the weight of the eggs!!

I started doing this when I had the problem of the light diffuser grate sinking a little if the hatchrite was too wet. If it was too dry, I needed to add water throughout the incubation time.. Presto! Solved that problem completely.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/IMG_2407.jpg

I also do not use GLAD press n seal. Never have. I just use the snap on lids that came with my boxes. My method of substrateless with extra deep hatchrite very well drenched, cross stitch plastic canvas, and then the light diffuser grate, all insure that my humidity is 100%.

Plus my incubator has the heat source coming from below instead of the sides and my egg boxes are above the heat source. This is best to insure that the humidity stays constant in the egg boxes.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I wouldn't use any other method either.. Look at this pic. I use cross stitch plastic canvas under the light diffuser grate as well. (it's easy to cut with scissors and only about $.60 per sheet at craft stores) It allows you to completely drench the hatchrite so there is absolutely NO fear of it drying out during the entire incubation time and the light diffuser grate will not sink in it under the weight of the eggs!!

I started doing this when I had the problem of the light diffuser grate sinking a little if the hatchrite was too wet. If it was too dry, I needed to add water throughout the incubation time.. Presto! Solved that problem completely.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/IMG_2407.jpg

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OOOOOO OOOOOOO i like that idea! i use vermiculite and the light defuser, but now ill be adding this stuff your talking about!
thanks
spooky

no one does just water? why not?

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Originally Posted by Tidus10

no one does just water? why not?

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You can but it sloshes about and gets the eggs wet when you move the tubs around.
I use perilite and add water until the water touches the bottom of the light diffuser piece and that's it.
I never have to add water to the tub again throughout the incubation period.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

You can but it sloshes about and gets the eggs wet when you move the tubs around.
I use perilite and add water until the water touches the bottom of the light diffuser piece and that's it.
I never have to add water to the tub again throughout the incubation period.

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AHH, so the perlite is kinda a defuser of the water so it doesnt slosh? also how much does a tub of water/perlite/eggs weigh? i feel like i got a lady thats gonna pop soon and i still need to finish the incubator more and get this stuff going

I use substrateless incubation.
I put the water catch tray in the bottom of my Hovabator, then put in the enclosed screen. Over that, I place a piece of fluorescent light grid, cut to fit. Water goes in the tray, and eggs sit on top of the grid. I can add more water if necessary during incubation.

Hatch rates are great, and the hatchlings don't come out with vermiculite adhered to them.

I don't worry about water sloshing, because I don't move the incubator once it's set up.

should i use RO water or should i use distilled water? or does normal water work just fine

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Originally Posted by Tidus10

should i use RO water or should i use distilled water? or does normal water work just fine

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I use regular tap water.

Substrateless is certainly easy as pie! I don't know why anyone new to it wouldn't use it. No filddling around with trying to get the moisture content of vermiculite/perlite mix to be right. No guessing if it needs more water later on. Just a great, fool-proof method.

When doing substrate less method do NOT use Press n Seal. This will cause extreme condensation on the lid and sides after only a weeks time. Which is turn causes the eggs to sweat and die.


Also when soaking vermiculite, be sure to have a way to support the light diffuser orther swise it will sink it over time, and bottom of eggs will get wet. In turn causing mold to grow and possible killing the egg. I just double up on the light diffuser so if one sinks other wont.

Works like a charm and i dont add water ever during incubation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I use substrateless incubation.
I put the water catch tray in the bottom of my Hovabator, then put in the enclosed screen. Over that, I place a piece of fluorescent light grid, cut to fit. Water goes in the tray, and eggs sit on top of the grid. I can add more water if necessary during incubation.

Hatch rates are great, and the hatchlings don't come out with vermiculite adhered to them.

I don't worry about water sloshing, because I don't move the incubator once it's set up.

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This would work if using that type of small incubator where you won't move it but when using a larger one with egg boxes to accommodate more clutches the eggs would get wet when moving boxes..

I also noticed hatchrite stuck to babies BUT my method of using the cross stitch plastic canvas under the light diffuser also fixed this problem as well. The hatchlings don't come in contact with any of it because it can't fit through the small mesh. They come out completely clean no matter how long you leave them in there :)

I imagine the same would hold true if using vermiculite/perilite (SP?) as well.

Last year I used a new type of Perlite(it has no chemicals) its really alot bigger chunks of Perlite so the light diffuser will not sink at all. I had a 13 egg clutch and it didn't even begin to sink not once, worked like a charm. My buddy told me about it as he sells plants(bromeliads) at all the plant shows. I forgot the name of it but I'll call him later and get it..

Just do a Google search for "Goodbye Vermiculite" and you will find a post about my substrate less method. I posted it on BLBC a couple years ago.

Good luck this season season :-)

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