Kevin's 'A&K Exotics' 1st Year Breeding Question Thread

So yeah, long title, but this isn't a thread that has one question and one answer. I plan on making this my 1st year breeding diary/question thread. I have cut back on some of the snakes I planned on getting right away, as I really doubt I will have $12+ to my disposial. So if you have read my other thread I posted the other day I changed the list a bit and the pairings. I will be starting to do some extensive research on how to breed. More so than before, as the whole ovulation and stuff confuses me. Lol. Anywho here is my list (*it may alter a little from time to time, but I like my odds with this starting crew*)

1.1 Black Pastels
1.0 Enchi
1.0 OG Mojave
1.0 Pastel Spotnose
0.1 Bumblebee
0.1 Lemonblast
0.1 Fire
0.1 High Contrast Albino
0.1 Spotnose
0.3-5 Normal
0.1 Butter Pastel (I tend to like the buttery qualities of butters as compared to lessers)

planned pairs are as follows, but it may be completely different in the end.

-Black Pastel (M) x Black Pastel (F), Lemonblast, Fire, High Contrast Albino
-Enchi x High Contrast Albino, Spotnose, Butter Pastel, Fire
-Pastel Spotnose x Spotnose, Black Pastel (F), Bumblebee, Lemonblast, Fire
-OG Mojave x Butter Pastel, Spotnose, Bumblebee, Lemonblast

And for those who are going to comment with, "You shouldn't do a 'who's your daddy' breeding with a recessive trait" don't worry. I am very much aware, I am really just trying to work in the Mojave, not so much the OG, but future breedings will include OG work...just not to start with.

There is a lot of potential with these pairings to hit a lot of stuff, what I'm looking to hit include: *if any of these have a simpler name please let me know*

Enchi het. Albino
Butter Pastel Enchi
Pastel Powerball
Powerball
Enchi Fire
Black Pewter Spotnose
Super pastel spotnose
Spotnose Spider
Lemonblast Spotnose
Spotnose Fire
Jigsaws
Pastel Spotnose Fire
Pastave
Pastel Enchi
Butter Enchi
Black Pewter
Spotnose Bumblebee
Killerbees

and the list goes on, but that's if there is more than one father taking to a female.


Anywho, I'll probably be asking some questions in the future and letting everyone know whats going on in my world as I start making arrangements for my first breeding stock.


Thanks so much!
Kevin. :banana:

Plans sound kewl. Good luck..

Sent from my PG41200 using Tapatalk

I'm not trying to be a killjoy, and your plans do sound interesting, but I can hardly keep up with your posts. I appreciate speculation and potential breeding projects as much as anyone else, but I have to think that you might be better served holding off on a few of these threads at least until you're able to get back into balls again.

at any rate, you do have an eye for unique pairings. I hope you're able to get invested in the projects you've mentioned at some point soon. all the best.

I know I do make a crap ton of threads with various different list of start up snakes, but this one is pretty much it, the real deal. Lots of my other threads were dreams really, this is actually plausible. Sorry if I get annoying with all my post, but that's why I made this one. So I can ask all my questions in one spot.

seems very ambitious.. this is my first year breeding and i couldnt imagine having more then 3 pairs, just a lot to clean and care for and keep track and feed and whatnot.. not to mention a lot to mess up if you arent familiar with incubation and all that...

I'm not going to argue with you on that, it is a lot of work and care to be taken, but oddly enough my favorite thing to do is clean....not just snake cages but anything in the house lol. I'm very anal retentive and need things clean or I get really bad OCD like symptoms...such as anxiety. There is a reason I made this thread now and that is so I will be prepared for when my first clutches come which is probably anpther 4+ years away.

just giving you words of wisdom, im going through it right now and its a lot to keep track of.. i would personally start off with a few morphs and normals just to get a hang of things... also keep in mind the cost of feeding.. 15 snakes, one rat a week (minimum) is (cheapest) $30 a week... i feed my girls twice a week so its easily $45 a week if i were to pay for it

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Originally Posted by Tidus10

just giving you words of wisdom, im going through it right now and its a lot to keep track of.. i would personally start off with a few morphs and normals just to get a hang of things... also keep in mind the cost of feeding.. 15 snakes, one rat a week (minimum) is (cheapest) $30 a week... i feed my girls twice a week so its easily $45 a week if i were to pay for it

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Thanks for the input, with that being said I am probably one of the most organized people in new york anymore. My compulsive cleanliness has gone so far that I label everything and organize everything certain ways. For instance me and my gf dvd collection is seperated by genre, then alphabetized. Its really not that difficult to keep good records of everything and keep everything organized if you know what your doing. As for the rats, well its as simple as breeding them myself, then freezing the extras for a rainy day. Much cheaper than buying a ton of rats a week, and no need to leave the house for them. Its a lot of work yes, but if your like me and all you do is clean/origanize/arrange because your body can't sit still for 5 seconds its a godsend.

So question time.

Is it stupid of me to purchase pairs of each morph that I want in the codom aspect? I want to aim for supers of all the codoms, recessives I have so that I can for sure put the gene into other combos.

Sure I could go out and buy a super but that wouldn't let me put it to every male and or female I have.

So basically is it stupid to buy pairs of everything if they will all be utilized?

Anyone?

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Originally Posted by kevinb

So basically is it stupid to buy pairs of everything if they will all be utilized?

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Why would it be stupid if it fits into your plans? If you want to make supers of everything, you will need a male and female of your co-doms.

Well you could always breed the female of the desired morph. And hold back whatever of their sons to breed the following year. Yes it take a bit longer but I like to produce stuff myself.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Originally Posted by kevinb

1.1 Black Pastels
1.0 Enchi
1.0 OG Mojave
1.0 Pastel Spotnose
0.1 Bumblebee
0.1 Lemonblast
0.1 Fire
0.1 High Contrast Albino
0.1 Spotnose
0.3-5 Normal
0.1 Butter Pastel (I tend to like the buttery qualities of butters as compared to lessers)

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So, you don't actually have any of these snakes yet? Do you own any ball pythons yet? I'm just asking, because this is a pretty ambitious starting group for someone who already owns a few balls, let alone someone who doesn't. I'd suggest getting one or 2 and keep them for a year or so to make sure you actually enjoy keeping them. The worst thing that could happen is to acquire 15-20 snakes over a short period of time with plans to breed them 2-3 years down the road and then not enjoy keeping them at all.

IMO if you need the above questions answerd for you dont have the know how required to handle that many snakes at once. I think your massivly under estimating the work involved in keeping that many and breeding your own rats aswel. Id try gain some experience in keeping and breeding so you can iron out the creases and then add slowly to your collection.

Last thing you want to be doing is making a beginners mistake with several thousand grands worth of snakes. Clutch of pastel x normals no biggy.... a few clutchs with a estimated value of maybe 15-20k and your gonna be feeling suicidal

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

Well you could always breed the female of the desired morph. And hold back whatever of their sons to breed the following year. Yes it take a bit longer but I like to produce stuff myself.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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True, true, that could be a way to go.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

So, you don't actually have any of these snakes yet? Do you own any ball pythons yet? I'm just asking, because this is a pretty ambitious starting group for someone who already owns a few balls, let alone someone who doesn't. I'd suggest getting one or 2 and keep them for a year or so to make sure you actually enjoy keeping them. The worst thing that could happen is to acquire 15-20 snakes over a short period of time with plans to breed them 2-3 years down the road and then not enjoy keeping them at all.

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Currently no, I do not have an ball pythons. However I did have two, a mojave pos het oG and a Pastel male. I loved them to death and was devestated when I had to get rid of them due to my mom. They were seriously the best pet I think I have ever owned. What I don't think anyone fully understands is that, yes it's a somewhat larger list for a noobie, but I won't be getting anything for probably another year, perhaps longer. I also will not be aquiring all these snakes at once. It will probably take my 2-3+ years to get all I am aiming for in my first years breedings. Logically I will probably get as many of the lower cost base morph females first (around 3 to start I would imagine) and just build from there until I have all the females I need, grow them for a few years, then continue the quest with the males. There is no point in dropping more money then necessary when females take 3-4 years to reach maturity. I mean yes I am in persuit to become a nurse, but even so nurses don't make millions. To be more straight forward here is my idea in a nutshell:

1.) Research research research for the next year
2.) Get my own apartment with my girlfriend and judge the space I have available for racks, along with average temps, humidity, etc.
3.) Build a couple racks, and rat racks, along with a incubator
4.) Get a trio of ASF and try my hands at breeding, freezing what ever pups may produce for when snakes arrive.
5.) Obtain between 3-5 base morph females, most likely 3, and over the course of a few months to cut down on up front cost
6.) build on until I have all the females I am looking for (a year or two+ I imagine)
7.) Grow said females until they are almost of breeding size
8.) start to obtain my males over the course of that said year or more
9.) When all have reached breeding maturity select 3 females to breed that year (I don't want to get over my head with babies)
10.) Try my hand at hatching out a clutch

Like I said before everyone seems to think I will be doing all this in like 3 months....not going to happen, sure I'll be making better money than now, but I still have other bills as priorities first. It's going to take a while..as most things do. Patience is a virtue.

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Originally Posted by shaun1118

IMO if you need the above questions answerd for you dont have the know how required to handle that many snakes at once. I think your massivly under estimating the work involved in keeping that many and breeding your own rats aswel. Id try gain some experience in keeping and breeding so you can iron out the creases and then add slowly to your collection.

Last thing you want to be doing is making a beginners mistake with several thousand grands worth of snakes. Clutch of pastel x normals no biggy.... a few clutchs with a estimated value of maybe 15-20k and your gonna be feeling suicidal

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I get where you're coming from, but just because I asked essencially if people will buy pairs of codoms for supers, I don't understand how that impunes my knowledge? I'm not saying your wrong or right, I just don't see how me asking for an opinion can lead to me being stupid? I know how supers are made, I just know several people go different ways about it, whether they get a pair of codoms, or they get a base morph codom and a 2-3 gene animal with the codom in it, or then ever just breed the codom to a normal and get the other sex codom from the breeding to raise up and breed back to mom or dad. I know quite a bit about ball pythons, I just prefer asking questions, as compared to doing something stupid and getting the whole snake world angry. And yes the clutchs I might procduce will be very pricey in terms of retail value, but hey I'm really doing it for the sake of creating new never seen snakes, not because I care about how much money is in it. If I cared about money I'd be doing something much different, where live animals aren't involved. Plus I have heard and read that the snakes that sell fastest are the $1-2k snakes. I know what I want and how to get there, it just takes time, something everyone on here should know about. It's all a waiting game.

So after thinking long and hard about it I have decided to start pff with 4 base morphs and work my way to my goal list....the 4 are.

1.0 butter
1.0 black pastel
0.1 pastel
0.1 spotnose

The other issue to consider is time. You had the thread about nursing school and medical school. Both are no joke and take up quite a bit of time, especially if you have to work while going. Most folks cannot go to school for 6 or more years without working as well. I go to school full time for my NP, and thanks to my position in the Navy, that is my only job right now. 5 snakes, a frog and a dog take a lot of work. I imagine dozens of snakes would be too much, especially with rat breeding as well.

You do not feel like doing a heck of a lot when working several 12 hour shifts in a row AND going to school. And whole BPs are pretty low maintenance, they are not zero maintenance. And, adding rat breeding on top of that it is that much more work.

This is not to dissuade lofty goals, but a reality check.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

The other issue to consider is time. You had the thread about nursing school and medical school. Both are no joke and take up quite a bit of time, especially if you have to work while going. Most folks cannot go to school for 6 or more years without working as well. I go to school full time for my NP, and thanks to my position in the Navy, that is my only job right now. 5 snakes, a frog and a dog take a lot of work. I imagine dozens of snakes would be too much, especially with rat breeding as well.

You do not feel like doing a heck of a lot when working several 12 hour shifts in a row AND going to school. And whole BPs are pretty low maintenance, they are not zero maintenance. And, adding rat breeding on top of that it is that much more work.

This is not to dissuade lofty goals, but a reality check.

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Kevin has a alot of free time hence the posts. ;)

Kevin - are there any breeders near you that you can make friends with? Volunteer to help clean and take care of snakes/rodents for this person and learn a little. You can play with snakes and then back off if time gets short, like during exams. Then you can get into your own program when the time is right.

Good luck.

I don't really have that much free time to be honest I just use my phone which is always with my, type quick, and know what I'm going to to check.

Yes things are a lot of work, currently my two prioritites are working (9-12) a day, then come home to clean up the house which takes up the rest of my day depending. If I play my cards right I shouldn't have to be IN class for atleast the next 3 years, in which ill come out AAS RN, its then another two years to BS RN which will be more hands on and challenging, but hey the hospital is paying for my schooling not me. Then I have to find a school to get my NP degree if I even feel like going that far by that point. Its work yes but no one on here truely knows what I can and cannot handle. I have the weight of about 5 people on my shoulders and I do just fine. I pay my bills on time, I keep the house clean and everyone in it happy, and I even have spare time after everything to do something for myself. Everyone makes it out to be so difficult, to some it might, but when I had my 2 bps, 1 garter, 3 leopard geckos, and my fish, along with my hampster and birds.....I took my day off on wednesdays and feed, cleaned, ect. And it only took me what? Like an hour at the most. I just said I would be starting with 4 and gaining more through the 2013-2014 years. 4 snakes is not that bad, and with that little I could just have a 1.2 trio of asf and had their tanks satisfied.

So thanks for telling me how you think things are and I'm not trying to be rude because I do enjoy constructive criticism, but I also take it more seriously when the person actually knows me and what I can handle. I've had a hard life as a kid, either being cold or hot because we couldn't afford ac or heating in the winter, my mom would take what ever money I made to pay bills or heat the house. I was pretty much on my own at 16, I was shoved in adulthood the hard way because of this. I can handle a lot more than most, as I said my OCD for neatness and cleanliness keeps me on top of my game.


So thanks for the comments, but don't judge me based on my position on an online forum.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

Kevin has a alot of free time hence the posts. ;)

Kevin - are there any breeders near you that you can make friends with? Volunteer to help clean and take care of snakes/rodents for this person and learn a little. You can play with snakes and then back off if time gets short, like during exams. Then you can get into your own program when the time is right.

Good luck.

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I do appreciate this post. Thanks John.

If you do not like the advice coming from someone who has been in your chosen field for many years, then so be it. But do not get offended when you put out a question online and you do not get what you want to hear. My post was simply concerning time. 12 hour shifts, which is what most RNs work, take their toll. Your background is honestly of little importance on that matter. If you doubt me, look at the tons of evidence based research on how nursing schedules affect the lives of nurses.

Mine, and I am sure everyone else's concern here really is not so much for you as for the animals. I think starting with 4 is a great idea, vs the 16 or so you listed before.

Just do not be surprised at responses you get from people who do not know you personally when you ask them for input.

Like stated before time is a must!!!!! We have around 70 snakes, 15 females breeding right now plus some monitors and lizards. Then the 500+ rats/mice/asf/rabbits to feed them all. We both work two jobs as medics and all and I mean ALL of our free time when we get home,before work and days off are devoted to the reptiles and feeders. This business literally takes all of our free time. We love it and don't mind the work , but for someone in school or that likes having a life lmao its not for them. Not saying don't get into it. Just saying if you can't say for 100% that you can devote your free time everyday to your reptiles, then don't get that many.
Just with the list you posted first, that's enough to tie up all your free time.
Plus breeding isn't as easy as you think. It's a lot of work. Being able to incubate eggs and not lose them it s real JOB.
But I agree with doing some research and starting out small. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

If you do not like the advice coming from someone who has been in your chosen field for many years, then so be it. But do not get offended when you put out a question online and you do not get what you want to hear. My post was simply concerning time. 12 hour shifts, which is what most RNs work, take their toll. Your background is honestly of little importance on that matter. If you doubt me, look at the tons of evidence based research on how nursing schedules affect the lives of nurses.

Mine, and I am sure everyone else's concern here really is not so much for you as for the animals. I think starting with 4 is a great idea, vs the 16 or so you listed before.

Just do not be surprised at responses you get from people who do not know you personally when you ask them for input.

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I wasn't offended, as I said I like critisim. I know what I want and how to get there, and as I said before, I'm not getting all these snakes at once. Financially it's impossible for me. I say 4 to start but realistically it might be 2-3, this leads me to grow to the list I have said at the beginning of this thread. I said it could quite well take quite a few years to get all the snakes I want to have as breeders, and I'm okay with that. I'm not saying being a nurse is easy, as I know it isn't. But each place is different, and what may be crazy for one person isn't the other. I said 4 snakes as I know that that is a much easier number to manage, and when I start going to school full time and working full time it will be the judge as to if I can add another snake or not. I would never put an animal in a crappy situation for my benefit. That's not how it is or ever will be.

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Originally Posted by Amon Ra Reptiles

Like stated before time is a must!!!!! We have around 70 snakes, 15 females breeding right now plus some monitors and lizards. Then the 500+ rats/mice/asf/rabbits to feed them all. We both work two jobs as medics and all and I mean ALL of our free time when we get home,before work and days off are devoted to the reptiles and feeders. This business literally takes all of our free time. We love it and don't mind the work , but for someone in school or that likes having a life lmao its not for them. Not saying don't get into it. Just saying if you can't say for 100% that you can devote your free time everyday to your reptiles, then don't get that many.
Just with the list you posted first, that's enough to tie up all your free time.
Plus breeding isn't as easy as you think. It's a lot of work. Being able to incubate eggs and not lose them it s real JOB.
But I agree with doing some research and starting out small. Good luck.

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That's how I like it though, I have a multitude of physicilogical issues that make me best on the go, from the moment I wake up to the moment I hit the pillow I am doing some form of something, whether it's my actually job, or folding laundry. I always have to have something to occupy my mind, and as I said I have OCD, especially around cleaning and organizing, some would call it a curse, I use it to my advantage. Plus the fact that I can run on 3-5 hours of a sleep a night helps me greatly as well. I often say that I wish I didn't have to sleep, so much more could be accomplished.