Lemonblast / Bumblebee - Crazy Price Difference?

I was just wondering why the extreme price difference in Bumblebees and Lemonblasts? Looking at 2011 Males specifically, I currently have the ability to go pickup a nice Bee male for $300 (not shipped), and most online are right around $300 to $350 plus shipping. Where-as the Lemonblast males are running anywhere from $100 to $200 more than that?

I mean, they are both a dominant gene (Spider or Pin) mixed with a Pastel. I don't see the reason for the major difference? I know Spiders have been around longer, but now I can go buy a 2011 Pin and a 2011 Spider for the same price...?

Just wanting to here some people's thoughts, specifically from some breeders who produce one or both of these morphs..

Thanks!

A lot more people got into bee's, there super hot right now. This means there is a huge supply of them, which means those with the best price will sell. Quality is huge too, I've seen some super nice bees go for 600. I think thats fair, the better the quality is, the more it should be worth.

Supply and demand. There are probably less Lemonblasts; Lemonblasts could just me more popular; or some folks do not want to deal with the Spider gene.

I picked up a male Lemonblast earlier this year for $350 shipped. You'll just have to look a little more. Seems like prices change every few months. Blasts might just be high at the moment. The ball python market seems more trendy then fishing supplies.

Superblast = $2000 Killerbee = $1500

I haven't seen any pinstripes that cost the same as spiders. All the pinstripes I've seen cost $100 - $200 more.

Yea I agree with you you. At the white plains expo a week ago the cheapest male lemonblast I saw was $400 and it wasnt a really nice one. Most were labeled at $450. The other weird thing I noticed though was that all the females I saw were $500, only $50 more than a male?
I personally dont like the spider wobble so I wanna work with pins instead.

I personally think some of the price difference is the lack of the spider gene, pinstripes don't have issues like spiders do.

ever since I've been in the hobby pinstripes have always been a little more. that difference is going to be multiplied when you get into combos.

I produced a bumblebee het hypo and and some lemonblast het hypos. I wanted to sell one of the male lemonblast het hypos so trying to figure out market value of them, it was easy to find that market value of the male bumblebee het was around 750 while I could only find a female lemonblast het hypo going for 1500, no males even for sale. not much supply out there.

I agree some pricing in the hobby is just off I know supply and demand as well as quantity but if you have something that is only 2 morphs that aren't that big of a deal your hurting the hobby by going price crazy. But it is like the coral propagation game same thing goes on there if you give a coral a funny name you can jack the prices up. Its a question of asking more then its worth or just being in it for the money and not the snakes. Thats my opinion

Lance

I was at a show yesterday and the there where the most Lemon Blasts there than I've ever seen there before! The average price was right around $500.00, one guy there found someone selling one for $275.00! I did not see it, so not sure how good of a deal that was.

I would also have to say, there are a lot more bees out there than blasts.

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Originally Posted by lance

I agree some pricing in the hobby is just off I know supply and demand as well as quantity but if you have something that is only 2 morphs that aren't that big of a deal your hurting the hobby by going price crazy. But it is like the coral propagation game same thing goes on there if you give a coral a funny name you can jack the prices up. Its a question of asking more then its worth or just being in it for the money and not the snakes. Thats my opinion

Lance

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your entire post just made me go "huh?"

I don't see how it hurts the hobby, if your asking too much, people don't pay it, so you lower the price, or don't sell. It doesn't effect the hobby the least bit.

I have no idea what your talking about with the "corals".... yea your just going to have to explain that one.

What something is worth is only in the mind of the seller and buyer, there no commission setting market value. I don't see how that could have anything to do with the reasons someone is in the hobby. Everyone wants to sell their snakes, regardless of your reasons for doing it.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I have no idea what your talking about with the "corals".... yea your just going to have to explain that one.

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I think he may be taking about coral from coral reefs?...not sure how that applies but okay. *shrugs shoulders*

Sorry but having a high price on a morph does not hurt the hobby. What hurts the hobby is people slapping low prices on their snakes to make a quick sale. All of the "weekend sale!" "final price drop" "the lowest around" is what hurts the hobby. Some people feel the need to drop their prices to match what someone else is using. A morphs price should not be cut in half every year, yet that is def going on.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

your entire post just made me go "huh?"

I don't see how it hurts the hobby, if your asking too much, people don't pay it, so you lower the price, or don't sell. It doesn't effect the hobby the least bit.

I have no idea what your talking about with the "corals".... yea your just going to have to explain that one.

What something is worth is only in the mind of the seller and buyer, there no commission setting market value. I don't see how that could have anything to do with the reasons someone is in the hobby. Everyone wants to sell their snakes, regardless of your reasons for doing it.

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what I mean is pinstripes and spiders are priced the same so are pastels no point to raising cost for a lemon blast if a bumblebee is a $100 or more, less then that of a bumble-bee its like when Coral Propagation came out they took one thing equal to another but said well there is 5 times more of this then that so if you go by availability add a little more to it not a few hundred dollar it hurts the hobby in a sense cause now everyone breeds something 2 gene that isn't that great of a thing and charge insane pricing for it. Like when corals got cute names like " Mummy Eye" " Rainbow Poly " they took something simple and ripped people of like the Whole ( DINKER ) thing maybe in a few thousand normals you may possibly may have something unique but not likely but now I can go online say Dinker for sale and add an extra $100 or more and people will buy in hopes of finding the next unique gene. kinda lost my point but I think you get the point if not my bad :) I'll elaborate someday in a thread.

( I know with demand and less quantity raises price but everyone says if your in the hobby for the money and not the snake then your not in it for the right reason thus my point of lemon blast males $700 dollars and Bumblebee males $400 dollars )

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Originally Posted by kevinb

I think he may be taking about coral from coral
reefs?...not sure how that applies but okay. *shrugs shoulders*

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yes


Not trying to offend anyone by the way just saying my peace :)

Lance

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Originally Posted by lance

what I mean is pinstripes and spiders are priced the same so are pastels no point to raising cost for a lemon blast if a bumblebee is a $100 or more, less then that of a bumble-bee its like when Coral Propagation came out they took one thing equal to another but said well there is 5 times more of this then that so if you go by availability add a little more to it not a few hundred dollar it hurts the hobby in a sense cause now everyone breeds something 2 gene that isn't that great of a thing and charge insane pricing for it. Like when corals got cute names like " Mummy Eye" " Rainbow Poly " they took something simple and ripped people of like the Whole ( DINKER ) thing maybe in a few thousand normals you may possibly may have something unique but not likely but now I can go online say Dinker for sale and add an extra $100 or more and people will buy in hopes of finding the next unique gene. kinda lost my point but I think you get the point if not my bad :) I'll elaborate someday in a thread.

( I know with demand and less quantity raises price but everyone says if your in the hobby for the money and not the snake then your not in it for the right reason thus my point of lemon blast males $700 dollars and Bumblebee males $400 dollars )

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Spider and pinstripes are priced the same? This is news to me. and pastel prices can vary anywhere from 50 to 300+ so we are dealing with a huge variable. I don't get what you saying with the coral since I know nothing about it, but you say "they took one thing equal to another but said well there is 5 times more of this then that so if you go by availability...." this makes me assume you don't understand supply and demand at all, unless you would like to reword it? Also dinkers do command higher prices if it looks like there might be something.... why wouldn't they?

You also seem to be under the impression that people put a price out there, they get it. Well if its too high, people don't buy it now do they? If they can get it, why wouldn't they sell it for that price? it makes zero sense to question someone's intentions over this.... it's how any normal person would do business.

supply and demand is the answer to all your bitterness toward this whole topic, bout all I can say.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Spider and pinstripes are priced the same? This is news to me. and pastel prices can vary anywhere from 50 to 300+ so we are dealing with a huge variable. I don't get what you saying with the coral since I know nothing about it, but you say "they took one thing equal to another but said well there is 5 times more of this then that so if you go by availability...." this makes me assume you don't understand supply and demand at all, unless you would like to reword it? Also dinkers do command higher prices if it looks like there might be something.... why wouldn't they?

You also seem to be under the impression that people put a price out there, they get it. Well if its too high, people don't buy it now do they? If they can get it, why wouldn't they sell it for that price? it makes zero sense to question someone's intentions over this.... it's how any normal person would do business.

supply and demand is the answer to all your bitterness toward this whole topic, bout all I can say.

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I know the whole supply and demand I spoke on it in the end I am just saying pastels in ameica are $75 to $100 for males and 150 for females at least on kingsnake.com, bhb, NERD, Reptile Industries, Etc... same with pins and spiders yes a little variance but it just seems wrong to me I see just as many lemon blasts out there for sale as bumblebee's give or take a few even at show's which I go to a few a month. So I don't really see a low supply of lemon blasts, maybe in Europe or over seas but not in America even common mom and pops breeders now have a lemonblast or bumble bee for sale look on kingsnake you can't go past a page without seeing a couple of both double morphs that is why I am lost with pricing. That is just the point i'm saying and its like with the Dinker I could just by a huge whole sale of ball python normals and say dinker and change them from 25 dollars a piece to 100 dollars that is why I dislike the dinker topic ever since it came out the Dinker threads have gone insane. I know everyone wants that special Dinker but do you thing big breeders would not get it first since they have the connections and experience and a keen eye on what to look for?

Lance

P.S. not trying to be rude or troll just want people to take the second to see it from another way instead of having that one mind set of supply and demand cause there is the supply I could find you just as many lemonblast 2011 babies for sale as bumblebee's if you needed that. And, there aint much of a demand for pastel pinstripes when Enchi's have blown up in the hobby.

I've never seen a $200 pin female?

A local breeder (and good friend) produced several bees and only a couple blasts. Not sure on exact numbers I think 7 and 3 respectively. He sold out of the bees before the blasts. The demand for bees has always seemed to be higher and the supply is catching up bringing prices down. The demand for blasts is there as well but the supply is quite as high leaving there price a little higher. It doesn't really matter what the base morphs are selling for, it depends on the number of available combo animals vs the amount of people wanting them.

I agree base morph price has little to do with. Supply and demand of the particular combo.

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Originally Posted by lance

I know the whole supply and demand I spoke on it in the end I am just saying pastels in ameica are $75 to $100 for males and 150 for females at least on kingsnake.com, bhb, NERD, Reptile Industries, Etc... same with pins and spiders yes a little variance but it just seems wrong to me.....

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This is why, your not making much sense to me. Lets actually look at the prices of these morphs that are actually for sale from sources you listed.

BHB
Female Pastel 150
Female Pin 250

Male pin 175
Male Spider 140

NERD
Female Pastel 200
Female Pin 350
Female Spider 300

Male Pinstripe 300
Male Spider 250

so what I can see is pastels are significantly below the value of of pins and spiders to both of them. and pinstripes are worth more than spiders for both of them. makes perfect sense for the combos to follow the same way and then add in the factor of demand on the actual combo, there you have our market.

Wait, let me get this straight. You think that it's good that the price of Bees has been decimated (alittle over a year ago they were 6-1000$) and you expect the people who invested more money in the pin project to follow suit just to suit the low end market buyers needs? The best part is you use the betterment of the hobby as your excuse. How many snakes do you own Lance? Have you ever had a food bill that was $500+? $1000+? Knowing that you would have to do it all over in a month? 3 months?

I find that most people who complain about high prices in this industry/hobby, don't have to worry about the overhead of keeping a collection of any size (my small collection is under 30 but can induce some costs that must be offset to make it an enjoyable hobby) Not to mention the people who work with the more cutting edge genes, without the people who invest thousands into the early lines of new genes, you wouldn't have your $350 2 gene combination Bumblebee. So instead of whining that prices are too high, step your game up, get a better job and EARN what it is that you want. You'll enjoy it much better that way, trust me. Not to mention that people will still earn the money NEEDED to reinvest in this wonderful industry of ours, truly making the reptile hobby/industry a better place.

Big pin females are rare, easier to make a bee because of all the spiders & pastels out there,I got alot of female pins this year think Im going to keep a few.