het pied OR... Pastel het pied????

I just got this new beauty today. She was traded to me as a het pied. However she looks VERY yellow to me. She has some serious blushing on her sides and that is where the yellow is the strongest as well. Her belly also seems so have a pretty distinct yellow down the center fading to white just before her pattern starts (there is also a good amount of pattern that seems to be "peaking through" on her belly). These pictures are not the greatest, they are kind of blurry in person the yellow is slightly more yellow and the black isn't quite as dark. Also she doesn't seem to have the solid black line on either side of her belly that I've read may indicate a het pied. (the guy was sure she's het tho and i trust him) Please tell me what you guys think.

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...tani72/010.jpg

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...tani72/006.jpg

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...tani72/005.jpg

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...tani72/003.jpg

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...tani72/002.jpg

Pics are needed please :)

Can't see the pic. I'd be very concerned about whether she's het pied if you think the person you got her from wasn't able to even distinguish if she was a pastel.

Not a pastel.

It isn't a pastel, the easiest way to tell with even low quality pastels is to see if the eyes are green.

Normal, definately not a pastel. I agree with Annarose..

Not a pastel...pastels have clean bellies.

hmm ok so do you guys think shes a normal het pied?? and is the strong yellow normal for a normal (or a het) The second pic down is the one that shows the yellow (on her sides) closest to what it actually looks like.

no way to tell if its a het unless you breed it to a pied and prove it out.
spooky

yeah i will have to figure out the het part later but as far as her being any type of visual morph it is a unanimous no right?? i know you guys said not a pastel but is there something else she could be? is the banana yellow color normal for a (visually) normal ball?

I'm not seeing the yellow. That snake looks brown to me.

im in the same boat as you... i have this normal that i just keep going back to and looking at. iv compaired her to everything, but all she seems to be is a normal. still, im sure that ill go back and compare again because damn,, she looks good! remember,, there are normals,, and there are exeptional normals.
spooky

This is a yellow snake:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/IMG_0002.jpg

Doesnt look Pastal or Het for Pied, my avitar pic is of my pastal het pieds belly... I got tons of other pics if you want better comparisons...

okay okay so shes visually a normal but i still say she is more yellowish then brown and her sides have spots that are BANANA yellow i swear. lol. i have a friend who does photography and im going to have her come do a couple shots and i'll repost so you guys can see what i see. shes still my favorite normal :) and i can't wait to prove out the het pied.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

This is a yellow snake:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/IMG_0002.jpg

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yes that is a yellow snake very good. i just said that she looks yellow to me, maybe not quite as bright as your pic but IN MY OPINION her BROWN looks YELLOWISH and her sides look YELLOW just like your pic. I am sorry my pics are not the best quality but i will get some good ones up as soon as i can. thank you for all your help and the wonderful color lesson. :)

Ok I looked at the pictures again and I think I know what you are talking about now. Here are 2 pictures of my 2011 female normal. Is this what you are talking about?

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/photo1-2.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/photo2-2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazyj83

Doesnt look Pastal or Het for Pied, my avitar pic is of my pastal het pieds belly... I got tons of other pics if you want better comparisons...

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You can't tell if they "look" het for pied. SOME het pieds have markings like in your picture, but many more don't have them at all. Some normals have those markings, too, and aren't het for anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brittani72

okay okay so shes visually a normal but i still say she is more yellowish then brown and her sides have spots that are BANANA yellow i swear. lol. i have a friend who does photography and im going to have her come do a couple shots and i'll repost so you guys can see what i see. shes still my favorite normal :) and i can't wait to prove out the het pied.

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I understand the bright yellow you are referring to, and it's quite common on normal ball pythons. Normals can vary a tremendous amount in coloration as well as patterns. What makes a morph a "morph" is when the specific color/pattern differences you see can be predictably passed on to its offspring with some statistical certainty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Ok I looked at the pictures again and I think I know what you are talking about now. Here are 2 pictures of my 2011 female normal. Is this what you are talking about?

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/photo1-2.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/photo2-2.jpg

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yeah kind of on your second pic all the way to the right the spot of yellow looks like the spots going almost all the way down her body

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if a snake is a morph or not, a good looking snake is a good looking snake no matter what it's called.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if a snake is a morph or not, a good looking snake is a good looking snake no matter what it's called.

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It matters if she traded for something with expectations only to get let down. Not saying that's the case, but heard and seen people trade/buy for a "normal" looking morph (like a fire, vanilla, YB..etc) and/or het only to get a normal and nothing more.

No way to tell the hetness until bred. I have a snake (I don't wana call her normal) that is 250g that I'm patiently waiting for her to get to breedable size. I've jus been given some very interesting news which I hope pans out for me. IMO you should get another het pied from a more respectable name and breed in the future. Pieds go for a pretty penny. Have fun with your balls!

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...!-)-(pic-heavy)

I have seen where het pieds can have a genetic marker line running down both sides of the stomach you should look it up they have some really good pics of it on-line.

sorry to disapoint you but to be honest it doesent look to be a het pied either being i have bred hets and anthing that is truly het for pied even the breeders would agree have tracking on their bellys your snake may be 50 percent het pied also i have a yellow belly female that looks exactly like her belly and all the pics of the normal 100 percent het pied female i have and the yellow belly female email me and i can send you a pic of what they look like so i can show you my pics arent uploading at all rambosrider@yahoo.com

it looks as if you may have a yellow belly instead gorgeous indeed tho

I also think not a pastel. Mine both have a white belly, and their eyes aren't black. There are many varieties and looks within "normal" though. Nice snake, Congrats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slithering house

sorry to disapoint you but to be honest it doesent look to be a het pied either being i have bred hets and anthing that is truly het for pied even the breeders would agree have tracking on their bellys your snake may be 50 percent het pied also i have a yellow belly female that looks exactly like her belly and all the pics of the normal 100 percent het pied female i have and the yellow belly female email me and i can send you a pic of what they look like so i can show you my pics arent uploading at all rambosrider@yahoo.com

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I don't know where you get your information from, but not all het pieds have the tracks. And the lack of tracks would not mean they snake may be 50% het pied. 50% het pied doesn't mean its half het pied. It means, the individual snake has a 50% chance of carrying the pied gene. IF we use YOUR logic, if the animal does carry the pied gene, it would have tracks. And if the animal has tracks, then it MUST be a het pied and therefore would not be only 50%.....am I making sense? This is why your logic about hets doesn't make sense.

IF her snake is het pied, the ONLY way to find out is to breed it. Tracks or no tracks, it might be a het pied. Or it could have tracks and just be a normal. I have seen het pieds without tracks, and het pieds with tracks. With simple recessive hets, there is no GUARANTEED way to know if it carries the gene or not unless you bred it yourself and know the parents or you breed it. There is no physical sign that says "This is a het." if it is simple recessive.


To the OP, you have a nice normal and I hope it proves out het pied for you, but you won't know until you breed it. And the snake is not a yellowbelly either.

that makes sense the only reason i said for the tracking is ive never had any het pieds 100 percent from the breeders i have gotten them from or the ones ive bred not have tracking so ive never seen a het pied without them im sure their are some out their

Definitely not a pastel.

Did you get her with any paperwork to prove she is a het?

Looks normal.
If a het could be told from a normal by looking, then the trait would not be considered recessive. (A visual heterozygous trait would make it co-dominant).

So, while there are some common markers in some heterozygous animals for some morphs, none of them are 100% conclusive, or always present.

You simply can't tell whether she is het pied until you breed her to an animal carrying the pied gene.

You should always get paperwork, and information on the original breeder, when buying a het (at least, if you're paying more than you would for a normal).