Black Pastel Genetic Flaws?

Title pretty much sums this up. People speculate that Cinnamons and Black Pastels are different lines of the same morph. Cinnamons are pre-disposed to a number of flaws I think? What about Black Pastels? What about Black Pewters vs Pewters?

Thanks

A black pastel and a cinny are like a mojave and a lesser. Different genes but on the same allele causing them to have similar super forms.

Black pastels, when bred to another black pastel, have been known to produce supers with problems (kinking and duck bills).

Any black pastel combo (including the black pewter) tend to be darker and less brown than a cinny combo. I personally would take a black pastel combo over a cinny combo any day.

I will agree on black pastels making better looking combos (in my oppenion at least). And I have heard of the duckbilling problem with super black pastels, but not kinking.... Do Cinnamon not have the same problem?

I personally love my black pastels and would never trade them in for a cinnamon, nor will i work with cinnamon I believe that black pastel is the better looking morph.

I produced some smoking black pewters that brought me close to double what a cinny pewters were selling for. I think if you look at it all simmilar combos black pastel combos bring more than cinny

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...x-black-pastel

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t=black+pastel

These threads talk about black pastels and the kinking and duck billing problem, the first link shows a picture of 2 deformed super black pastel babies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jjmitchell

I will agree on black pastels making better looking combos (in my oppenion at least). And I have heard of the duckbilling problem with super black pastels, but not kinking.... Do Cinnamon not have the same problem?

I personally love my black pastels and would never trade them in for a cinnamon, nor will i work with cinnamon I believe that black pastel is the better looking morph.

I produced some smoking black pewters that brought me close to double what a cinny pewters were selling for. I think if you look at it all simmilar combos black pastel combos bring more than cinny

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Amen brother!!

Do those kinking and duckbilling problems happen with black pastel x pastel or only with the super form?

The duckbilling is associated with the super.....I personally don't have a problem with the duckbilling..minor flaw........I don't know how common the kinking is...there are plenty of picts out there of perfect, non-kinked, no duckbill, solid black beauties.
I've never heard of any issues with the Black Pewters......here's an old pict of my Black Pewter male with one of my Black Pastel females...
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...ofDSC00067.jpg

I'll take a Cinny Pewter over a Black Pewter.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ns/pewter1.jpg
Opinions will vary.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I'll take a Cinny Pewter over a Black Pewter.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ns/pewter1.jpg
Opinions will vary.

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If they all looked like that I'm sure a lot more people would feel the same but they don't. I personally don't care for the amount of brown the cinny typically adds to the mix.

Ive only heard of duck billing with super black pastels but have yet to see one with the flaw but it does happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I'll take a Cinny Pewter over a Black Pewter.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ns/pewter1.jpg
Opinions will vary.

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So you're saying this snake is a first generation Cinny X Pastel (Cinny Pewter).....

....yeah right....:weirdface

Nice snake Brandon but you're not playing nice....:rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMurphy

So you're saying this snake is a first generation Cinny X Pastel (Cinny Pewter).....

....yeah right....:weirdface

Nice snake Brandon but you're not playing nice....:rofl:

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Absolutely. I got that snake in 2006 and she is what started my Pewter Pied group. She also produced both of my "urban camo" animals. I'm not certain there isn't anything else going on, that I'm trying to prove, but she is a first gen Cinny Pewter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

Absolutely. I got that snake in 2006 and she is what started my Pewter Pied group. She also produced both of my "urban camo" animals. I'm not certain there isn't anything else going on, that I'm trying to prove, but she is a first gen Cinny Pewter.

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Stunning snake you have regardless of genetics; I'd take her over many of the Sterlings I see, even if she didn't have the potential "urban camo" influence...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

Absolutely. I got that snake in 2006 and she is what started my Pewter Pied group. She also produced both of my "urban camo" animals. I'm not certain there isn't anything else going on, that I'm trying to prove, but she is a first gen Cinny Pewter.

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Brandon, you're not stupid and neither am I....don't play coy with me..............you know damn well there is more to her than a regular, single gene Cinny x regular, single gene Pastel 1st generation breeding...hence why your Pewter Pied, Sterlings/Sandblasts/Camos are so off the charts awesome....

Again I say.... you're not playing nice.....that girl is nicer than most Sterlings....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMurphy

Brandon, you're not stupid and neither am I....don't play coy with me..............you know damn well there is more to her than a regular, single gene Cinny x regular, single gene Pastel 1st generation breeding...hence why your Pewter Pied, Sterlings/Sandblasts/Camos are so off the charts awesome....

Again I say.... you're not playing nice.....that girl is nicer than most Sterlings....

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I agree, I think there could be something else but I assure you, I'm not trying to be coy. I hope I'm just a lucky guy. At the time I didn't think anything of it. After a few odd clutches I began to wonder. If something strange pops out this season we will know. I'm crossing my crossed fingers. ;)