How young is to young?

I have a question for all the breeders out there. At exactly what age do you start breeding your females? I am just very curious.

This is my first season breeding, but I believe it has more to do with weight than age. From what I've read the general consensus is a female in her third winter at about 1500g+ when empty.

I'm breeding a female right now that is just over 1800g, and I personally wouldn't feel comfortable breeding one less than that.

Agreed. It has much more to do with weight. I have a 2 yo that is 1600g but she's long and lean so I'm not comfortable with her being bred yet. Girls can take a while to get to breeding weight. I basically look for good weight, but nice and chunky. And about 2 1/2-3 years.


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I have two girls that grew like weeds. They were 18 months old and ~1400g when they started breeding this season - now pushing 1700g. If they had grown any slower, they would not have been bred this year.

I bred a female last year that ws only 1200g when she started, but was 4 years old. She's over 1600g now and looks like she's going to go for me again this year.

In short, it's a combination of age and weight. Smaller is okay if they're older, but size is a bigger indicator if they're younger (although I still won't push her under 18mos).

A few months ago i acquired a (just over) 1100g female reduced pattern. The previous owner already had her locking up with a male lesser. I personally wouldnt have bred her that small but since she was already locking up for previous owner ive continued to pair her. Shes almost 1400g now and im pretty sure shell give me a clutch this year. Probably wont be a big clutch,but thats ok. They wont breed if their bodies arent ready, but you should still have a good amount of weight on them before attempting.

I have an 18 month old black pastel female who is now weighing 1850 grams the girl is a beast and is being bred by my bumblebee. Now these type of girls are special, I've noticed that there are three types of ball python female feeding responses, great, average and poor the poor ones usually change and get better after laying their first clutch.

The poor feeders can take up to three years to get to about 1200 to 1400 grams the average feeders here get bred at 24 months 1600 grams.

Now I'm not gonna sit here and recommend breeding 18 month old females BUT. If you have a female who is 2000 grams I believe it safe to say that you will get a nice sized clutch if she is ready only she decides that.

Age is the reason a female will breed or not. Weight has NOTHING to do with a female taking or not.

Ive had females 1500-2000g before they were 2 and didnt take till their 3. Each female ages sexually at different ages and different sizes. I never go by size but by age.

ive heard of some people breeding within that calendar year (he got a 2011 up to size by november) and shes breeding just fine.. hes done this in the past and has worked out fine... i wouldnt do it personally but it has been done

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Age is the reason a female will breed or not. Weight has NOTHING to do with a female taking or not.

Ive had females 1500-2000g before they were 2 and didnt take till their 3. Each female ages sexually at different ages and different sizes. I never go by size but by age.

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I disagree. I think that both age AND weight are what is required. A female needs to be sexually mature, but she also needs to have the necessary fat stores so she can produce good eggs. I think that they walk hand in hand for the most part (a sexually mature snake weighs enough) but there will always be exceptions when dealing with animals.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I disagree. I think that both age AND weight are what is required. A female needs to be sexually mature, but she also needs to have the necessary fat stores so she can produce good eggs. I think that they walk hand in hand for the most part (a sexually mature snake weighs enough) but there will always be exceptions when dealing with animals.

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We put the this so called weight requirement on a species we only know of in captivity. Wheres females out there never get over 1000g, that drop healthy clutches year after year. As I have on of them females. Gave me 7 eggs last year and 6 year before.

Someone I know, has a female Ball over 7 years old only 800g max. Might be a genetic dwarf ball. She has bred and laid eggs many times in her life time. Age is the MOST important factor on a females ability to breed.

Weight dont play a role like most think on having a successful clutch.

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Originally Posted by Tidus10

ive heard of some people breeding within that calendar year (he got a 2011 up to size by november) and shes breeding just fine.. hes done this in the past and has worked out fine... i wouldnt do it personally but it has been done

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Nothing wrong with it, if you know how to read the snakes behavior. Ive had few males father clutches before 6months of age. Done right, no harm done

I personally won't breed a female who's under 1500 grams, or less than 2 years old.

I understand some few females stay smaller than that, but in my opinion, they aren't really suitable breeding stock if they never get larger than 1500 grams.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I personally won't breed a female who's under 1500 grams, or less than 2 years old.

I understand some few females stay smaller than that, but in my opinion, they aren't really suitable breeding stock if they never get larger than 1500 grams.

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And with that thinking, we wouldnt be as far along with the genetics we are now if everyone wouldnt breed a female that stayed small.

I'm breeding my 14 month old cinnapin. She's about 1540 grams.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

And with that thinking, we wouldnt be as far along with the genetics we are now if everyone wouldnt breed a female that stayed small.

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I agree there shouldn't be a rule, just guidelines. There are times when I think that we take all of this far too seriously. In nature they don't have optimal conditions. That's not to say that we shouldn't strive for the best we can provide for our snakes but we can lighten up a bit.

Talking about size versus age... I put my late female spider to a pastel male last year and she laid 8 eggs and all babies hatched big healthy babies.... She was 1600g going in, she ate the day after she laid is now over 2 kilos and is going in with a male mystic..... So She bred at a year old she is a big girl. I just wanted to chime in with this because so many people ridiculed me for breeding a female this young

Third winter for me. It gives them plenty of time to fatten up. You could try a younger girl if she was up to weight, but I wouldn't hold your breath for anything.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

And with that thinking, we wouldnt be as far along with the genetics we are now if everyone wouldnt breed a female that stayed small.

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I'm not sure why you think so. Personally, I've never seen a 4 year old female ball that was healthy, and under 1500 grams in October
. They must be relatively rare. Why perpetuate small size as a trait in our breeding programs? People are not interested in a female that lays 4 egg clutches.
They are interested in the giant locality balls that lay 15 egg clutches, and reach 6 feet.

I'm sure it would hurt to choose not to breed an expensive combo-morph female that didn't reach adequate size, though. I would say, if you absolutely have to breed a girl like that, breed her to the biggest male you can find. Keep the best robust, fast-growing baby from her that has the traits you wanted, and then retire her.

I wouldn't do it, though. I just think a snake like that isn't carrying genes I would want to propagate. There might even be something else wrong with it, some hidden medical issue that is stunting its growth.

Small Females dont produce small offspring.

My 06 female who is 1000-1200g will never peak past that. Eats sm rat weekly al year till ovy.

She laid 7 eggs last year and 6 the year before that all babies hatched 50-60g. One of her babies from 2010 is already 1800g breeding with follicles. Theres no way to tell why females grow slow or fast.

But to say Ill never breed a small female as itll pass onto the offspring is an opinion I wont listen to. Getting tired of this Mythical 1500 and 3 year rule ppl toss out like its a must follow or else.

Only you know your snakes behavior and if their able to breed. Small females breed just as well as large females.

I personally think it depends. Some females are naturally small and won't grow super huge. Doesn't mean she won't throw healthy clutches.
I have a pastel girl who is tiny compared to other females much younger than her. I got all my snakes as hatchlings and feed them w/ the same size food at the same rate. She's not skinny or anything, just now growing as much as the others.

I agree with the age thing. I'll wait till after the female's second winter before thinking about breeding. (even when the female is up to breeding weight....)

Maybe the female will pass on her size, maybe she won't. Maybe her size is due to a recessive trait that will pop up later. Maybe it's not, and the male's size will have enough influence to prevent the babies from being small. It's not worth the risk to me.

If you want to breed tiny females, no one's going to stop you...I'm just saying that I wouldn't. In my opinion, there is too much risk of them passing on the trait--either overtly or covertly.
I also don't breed poor feeders, or aggressive snakes. I'm trying to improve the genetics in my collection, and those aren't traits I want to propagate, either. I don't think that small size is a desirable trait.

i would not start breeding until my female is around 2000 grams too be sure they can take on a breeding season with good success

You're probably best off purchasing females that are already over that weight, if that's your limit. A bit over half of my adult females have reached that size, but that leaves the rest of them between 1500 and 2000 grams. It's very common for female ball pythons to be lighter than 2000 grams as adults.

Be careful not to overfeed a female who SHOULD be 1500 grams until she is 2000, an obese female won't be a good breeder. They only snake I ever had slug out completely was a large female who put on about 300 grams too much weight going into the breeding season. She was overweight, and it had a bad impact.

Last season I paired my Mojave female. She was 2 years old and 1900 + grams. She did not take, never even built follicles.

This year she's about 2300 grams, and so far she is building nicely, but she's a hard breeder.

I would never start a female under 2 years old, no matter her weight. If she is at least 2 years old then I look at her size. Not just her weight, but her weight in proportion to her length, as well as muscle tone. If she is short and thick but with good muscle tone and is not fat, I would try her even if she were only 1200 grams. If she is long and skinny, around 1200 grams but looks like she could be much heavier, I would hesitate to try her, especially if she feeds well.

Gale

These are the weights an what year they hatched of my Females I bred this year
00 normal 3k plus grams empty
08 Pastel Female 1800 grams empty
08 cinnys 1400 grams empty, 1350 grams empty
08 normals 1700 grams, 1600 grams empty
09 nomal 1600 grams empty
09 het pied 1550 empty
10 pastel 1400 grams empty
10 cinny 1300 empty