Waiver or no waiver?

So I posted this blog on another site:
My boyfriend's aunt knows about all my critters, and she is the cub scout "leader" for this area. She asked if we would come to their March or April meeting and bring some of my reptiles by and talk about them to the kids. I, of course, accepted, and am really excited! My boyfriend will be there 100% to help me out, which is great. I think I'm going to type up a "liability/permission slip" for the parents to sign. They will only be able to handle a select few, using hand sanitizer each time, but I've already decided who I want to bring :)

-My 4 1/2 foot Kahl strain albino boa Humphrey (kids will not handle him, may be able to "pet" while I handle him.

-My 2010 950 gram normal male Julius (kids will be allowed to handle him, he's puppy dog tame)

-I'm thinking about bringing one of my morphs, just so the kids can see the difference in the patterns/colors, haven't decided which one I want to bring yet.

-My A.Metallica tarantula (kids will not be able to handle...don't want her getting squished!)

-My leopard gecko Capri (kids may be able to handle her)

-My red foot tortoise Scarlett (kids will be able to handle her)

-My bearded dragon Gimpy (kids may not be able to handle him, he's still young and pretty flighty)

-I'm thinking about bringing Lucky, my rat, and saving him for last to be sure none of the predators smell him lol.

-Also considering bringing my crested gecko, she's still a baby and the kids will not be allowed to handle her, but at least they can see her and learn about them.

I'm really excited! I think the kids will really love to see all the cool animals that they don't get to see every day. I want to talk about some common myths, and general misconceptions. I'd also like to print up a map and label where each one comes from. I'm going to try my best not to ramble, but I'm pretty good with talking to kids since I constantly have to explain things in "child speak" to my 5 year old son. :D I'll be sure to have someone take photos, and am really looking forward to the Q&A portion lol.

Now, a few people had commented saying congrats, etc etc, but that they don't think I should have a waiver because it will give the parents the idea that I'm bringing "dangerous" animals around their kids. However, in my defense, anything with a mouth can bite, and the last thing I wanted is for one of my normally harmless animals tagging a kid and having the mother freak out and sue the crap out of me. I see it as covering my 6 in case some freak accident happens. Granted, the kids won't have access to all my animals. And all the animals I am bringing are normally very docile and friendly, however, like I said, anything with a mouth can bite. I feel that if I was bringing puppies and one bit a kid it wouldn't be a big deal, but because I have snakes it would turn into a huge debacle if, God forbid, something happened. I really don't think any of mine will, as they are also brought up around my 5 year old son, however I don't think I'd like to take that chance without some sort of "permission form" I guess. So...what do you think? Waiver, or or waiver?

I have seen threads like this before and the answer is to always get a waiver. It has even been recommended to have an attorney write one up, a self wrote waiver may not be enough.

I voted for the waiver.

Absolutely get a waiver.

I agree, I would absolutely get a waiver, and having a lawyer look at it isn't a bad idea either. I know a lot of companies/people who give these presentations are insured in case there are accidents. Since this is your private collection and your 'pets', I'm not sure what your liability is.

Maybe change 'handle' to 'pet/touch'. That way, the animal is always in your possession and accidents are less likely to happen.

Edit: And I don't think having a safety waiver gives the idea of dangerous animals. There are safety waivers for EVERYTHING nowadays!

i have done this before here in back home in georgia i had my attorney write up the waiver just in case like you said anything with a mouth will bite if need be . if said animals are not use to alot of people being around and all the chaos the little ones could bring it could open up a whole new can of worms to say. i think in your best interest in would get the waiver just to be safe . have a great day

If you're going to let the kids get close to the animals like you plan, I would go with the waiver. Only down side is that's putting a lot of extra work (and maybe money) onto you.

If you were to set it up so only one animal would be out at a time, no kids would hold an animal by themselves and only line up to "pet" them, I think you would be OK without a waiver.

I never had to sign anything before we went to reptile exhibits with school and we all got to touch a big 10 ft boa, and when I was teaching I would bring in a corn snake without having to get parent signatures.

Only difference with that is that there was an ISD and a zoo backing the responsible parties. You'll be on your own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dabonus

You'll be on your own.

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This being the case, I would absolutely not let any child touch my animals(in this scenario). I'd also check into the possibility of needing to obtain a permit to use your animals in an "educational setting"...if needed, and you don't have one, any waiver you could draw up would be completely irrelevant.

Absolutely get a waiver! My friend lost his house after his boa bit a scout.

I did a birthday party for a friend for 6 year olds.
A. You definately need a waiver. Not just for the kids protection but your animals protection. B. bring someone to help you. I brought 2 people to keep the kids in a line. So I didn't get mobbed. Also kids don't realize how they're touching. So make sure you outline how exactly you want the kids to touch the animals. I simply told them 2 fingers and pointed out where for them to touch and showed them as well.
I'll just say I was excited as well to educate kids but it's not something I would ever do again. Or perhaps I would just not the same way or set up they had. Some kids are just not very nice to animals. I had a couple kids that just wanted to be mean and they lost the privilege to touch the animals. So keep your guard up and make sure you have the waivers and lots of HELP!


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also make sure that if you bring the rats you bring them out last so there is as little of their sent in the air as possible.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

also make sure that if you bring the rats you bring them out last so there is as little of their sent in the air as possible.

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I missed the rat in your original post. Seems kind of like a bad idea to bring it along with all the animals that exclusively eat rats. Might be a risk that's just not worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dabonus

I missed the rat in your original post. Seems kind of like a bad idea to bring it along with all the animals that exclusively eat rats. Might be a risk that's just not worth it.

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I was hoping to be able to bring him and save him for last, but I guess if it is really a bad idea I probably should leave him at home....

ehh... In the end, most of us on this forum are just hobbyists with opinions based on info we've gained from other hobbyists. You've gotten some opinions, but I wouldn't let the words of any on individual on an internet forum sway your thoughts too much.

You know your animals better than anyone on here, and that should be the bases for your decision.

Don't take the rat.

Something like the below may suffice.

Animals will be available for touching but only if permission slips have been signed by a parent. Parents assume ALL responsibility for any child choosing to participate. No liability for anything in any way will be assumed by or assigned to XXXXXXXX, whatever you legal name is.

Short and sweet and plain and simple.

I say definitely yes to the waiver. I have one already for my friends, and whoever comes to the house.

In my opinion I wouldn't take the rat, BUT it is your decision (obviously) and you know your animals. I just feel its better to keep as many controllable factors controlled in situations where there are potentially easily harmed children are around.

Yes on the waiver, and keep it short, but cover your tush! Easier it is to read and comprehend, the better, but definitely make sure that everything is covered.

I would also keep the rat home. I had to think long and hard about what I wanted to bring as well. I decided to keep things as brutally simple as possible. Even with doing that the whole thing was insane.


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I agree 100% with everyone who said you need a waiver. Kids tend to get very excited about new things (as I'm sure you know), and their nervousness, fear, uncertainty, or general excitedness at that level with so many people around is a recipe for something to potentially go wrong. And of course, you don't want any of the negative repercussions that not having a waiver could bring when and if something were to happen. In this instance I'd err on the side of caution and get the waiver written up.

If you're going to write it yourself I would suggest looking up some similar waivers, and be as detailed and specific as possible. However, having a lawyer draft one for you would be ideal. That way if you ever chose to do it again, you would have one already written up and you could just make more copies and change dates where applicable.

On a different note, I'm not sure if taking your pets to a scout meeting qualifies as an "educational setting". But I would be careful with that and try to find out because there is some extremely strict rule that one of my professors was telling us about today that is being heavily enforced which basically requires that you seek approval to do anything with animals. That even goes so far as squirrel watching in my Animal Behavior class. We would have to get prior approval before being allowed to even watch them. So definitely look into that. :gj:

Get A Waiver, as a past Cub Master and Cub Leader. All it takes is one over reactive parent or a kid that does not follow the rules and you are on the the ropes.. You do not need to be there. Make sure the WAIVER COVERS YOU TOTALY. It is great to let the kids see and learn about these great things but the parents are always the problem.

Protect yourself, family, first.

I'm going to add my two cents by agreeing with everyone else. I waiver is definitely the way to go.

I would also consider bringing as few animals as possible. And I would leave the rat home. I would bring maybe your boa, a ball, the tortoise, and the spider. They are the ones that (in my opinion) would be the most interesting to kids and still easily manageable. I guess if you brought the lizards though, they could see them through the cage, so maybe they'd be OK too.

And I don't know if I'd totally let the kids handle them. Maybe have them sit down and set your boa or the ball on their lap while you control the head (this would be easier with the boa). Then they can run their hands down his back and feel his weight without you totally turning over the business end of the snake to them (unless of course he produces one of his gigantic boa poops, then you're in for it!).

And I'd state somewhere in the waiver that they are non-venomous, non-lethal snakes, just to reiterate it to the parents.

I, like you, get super excited about sharing my hobby with the younger generation who are total sponges for good info. And I'd be the one to want to bring my entire collection just so I can point out to a 6 year old the subtleties between two normals. But remember that most kids see "a snake" and probably won't be able to tell you the difference between the boa and the ball at the end of it because they'll just be so excited to interact with these creatures.

Here's a reference for you.
http://www.sae.org/students/waiver-liability.pdf

waiver hands down. I did this and the only way they were able to do it was if the parents signed a waiver. Non the less it was an awesome experience

just curious did you ever get the waiver . we are doing something similar with my daughter's school and wondering the same thing as you were . You can pm me if you want. Thanks

I actually cannot talk with the boy scouts anymore. The leader looked more into it and it's now required that anyone doing this sort of thing have insurance, and I don't yet.

Wavier - In our state what you'd be doing is "education" and the rules are you "must be in control of the animal at all times." In the herp community here, we've jokingly taken that to me the bitey end is always still in the hands of, or at least facing us. Control the bitey end and you control the animal and it has held up wether it be leopards or leopard geckos. So I'd keep the animals on your hands and allow petting only.

Another thing to consider is the number of animals you are showing and petting. Our local Zoo in School program might take a half dozen or so, but then only the last one or two will be open for petting. It flows better then getting kids up and down, standing and seated over and over again. (Could be the former teacher in me, even college kids can't be trusted to take their seats again after you let them leave! Haha!)

Uuuugh my long reply didn't get posted...
Brief summary:

As an Assistant ScoutMaster, I'd say do waivers. You'll sleep better at night.


And Excellent Idea! :gj:




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I would get the waiver.

Oh, yea, the freaking insurance... MAJOR PITA




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