Time to bump up Snickers' prey size or not?

So at first when we got Snickers(our first and only snake) we ran into major husbandry issues and that is what the vast majority of my posts here have been over. But everything has been fine for a long time now. Snickers now eats every week in her enclosure and her temps and sheds are perfect.

I am now worrying we underfeed her though. She(and we call her a she but Snickers is most likely a "he") eats every week but recently started tearing up her tank every night again even though temps/humidity are perfect and so are the sheds.

I think the reason for Snickers doing this is from hunger and we are either feeding too small of prey or feeding not as often as we should. Snickers has a girth of roughly 4.25 - 4.50 inches at her widest(it's difficult to tell with a fabric tape measure) Snickers is eating full grown mice once a week and there is no "bulge" anymore and that is when she/he started tearing up the tank again.

Time to move to "baby rats" or?

How much does she/he weigh in grams?

I would switch her off of mice and on to rats. Rats have a better nutritional content, among other things.

I generally do 15% of the snakes body weight. So if my snake weighs 1000grams, I will feed a rat around 150grams. For snakes under 2 years old, I do it every 4-5 days. Over that, I do every 7 days.

If you don't have one, I suggest getting a cheap dietary scale. Mine was 10$ at walmart in the food gadgets aisle. Couldn't live without it, now that I have it.

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

How much does she/he weigh in grams?

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I have no idea...I don't have one of those scales. I read on here that if you don't have one of those scales you should feed roughly the same sized frozen/thawed prey as the snake's girth.

^ That's correct too, but I like going by the 10-15% rule myself. I would recommend getting a scale so you can monitor weight gain and weight loss.

But without knowing her weight I can't recommend a good feeder size. I do agree that rats will be better for her now though anyway.

Wow, this is news to me! I always thought Koga looked a bit on the small side- and now I know why. I've been feeding him meals less than half of the size I should have been. He's a 2010 male and he weighs 380 grams. Is that like, seriously underweight?

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Originally Posted by SpencerShanks

Wow, this is news to me! I always thought Koga looked a bit on the small side- and now I know why. I've been feeding him meals less than half of the size I should have been. He's a 2010 male and he weighs 380 grams. Is that like, seriously underweight?

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:O Yes! Wow, definitely bump up the prey size! All of my 2010's are over 800 grams....

My girl was hatched on july 26 2011 and before I gave her her 2 adult mice she gets every 5 days she weighed in at 350 grams. So she is 5 1/2 months old so your boy is seriously underweight.

Comment is for spencer by the way.

My life is a lie :tears:

I've just been eyeballing the general girth of the prey. I'm sure my mom won't be too happy about price for food doubling monthly. But Koga will sure enjoy it, no doubt about it. Thanks for the insight! You have saved my snake, I am eternally grateful! (Quick, name that movie!)

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Originally Posted by SpencerShanks

He's a 2010 male and he weighs 380 grams. Is that like, seriously underweight?

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Not necessarily...if he doesn't appear to be overly thin, than he's probably not underweight. I have a 2009 female that's 625ish grams and a 2010 female that's 1,800 grams. At this time last year, I had a 2008 male that was less than 400 grams. I don't feel that any of those 3 snakes had anything wrong with them...simply put, not all snakes have the same eating habits, metabolisms, or grow at the same rate.

Superpop, if you're not seeing a slight bulge, it may be time to move up in size to weaned rats...or give him an extra mouse.

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Originally Posted by Xotik

I would switch her off of mice and on to rats. Rats have a better nutritional content, among other things.

I generally do 15% of the snakes body weight. So if my snake weighs 1000grams, I will feed a rat around 150grams. For snakes under 2 years old, I do it every 4-5 days. Over that, I do every 7 days.

If you don't have one, I suggest getting a cheap dietary scale. Mine was 10$ at walmart in the food gadgets aisle. Couldn't live without it, now that I have it.

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Says Who? No study has ever been done to say one is better than the other. Mice are closer related to ASF than the Norway rats we feed.

And the 15% rule only pertains to yearlings. No reason to ever feed anything over 100g per meal once a week. This WILL lead to an obese snake by time their 4 years old.

OP, feed what snake wants, if one mouse isnt enough, you can try a wean rat which is about 45g in size or give 2 mice per week. Its all about what works for you and what the snake eats.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Says Who? No study has ever been done to say one is better than the other. Mice are closer related to ASF than the Norway rats we feed.

And the 15% rule only pertains to yearlings. No reason to ever feed anything over 100g per meal once a week. This WILL lead to an obese snake by time their 4 years old.

OP, feed what snake wants, if one mouse isnt enough, you can try a wean rat which is about 45g in size or give 2 mice per week. Its all about what works for you and what the snake eats.

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Just wanted to say that every time I see your posts Rich I have to read them. I've learned a lot just from following your comments. Thanks for all helpful knowledge all the time.

Alright, now I'm having to do some thinking. Need some more experienced opinions on this.

2010 Male, been in my possession nearly all his life. 380 grams, can't get a length measurement. Been eating adult mice for the last few months. (I was planning on bumping him up after he finishes this last one off, even before this.) The mice he's been eating weigh in at around 15 grams each. I thought he looked slim at the worst. Now I guess he may (or may not) be under weight. There is a slightly visible bulge when he eats, but only for the first couple inches of his body.

This is the only full body shot I have of him right now.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...9/DSC_2999.jpg

Underweight or no? Parents think I'm trying to fatten him up, when really I just want him to get a good sized meal haha.

Sorry about the thread hijack. Figure I may as well do it now at the same time as someone else.

Hes fine, they all grow and different rates.

Mice eaters do grow slower due to lower fat in mice, but nothing wrong with that. At 380g a meal consisting of 45g per feeding every 4-5 days will help bump him into a growth spurt.

Adult mice should weigh more than 15g just IMO but I'm sure it could vary. I would check your scale cause he doesn't look as thin as I thought he would.

adult mice are 20-30g and retired breeder mice are 31-50g.

15g mice is what i call a small adult.

Alright, my fears have been subdued haha. If it clarifies anything, he's been eating the frozen "Small Adult Mice" from Arctic Mice. Well it's a good thing he's not underweight then. I've personally got no problem with him being a bit on the small side, he's a pet, not a breeding machine. Soon after I first got him I did try feeding him every 4 days, but when my parents found out they threw a fit haha. Once I have a source of income my snakes will be fed a wee bit more.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

adult mice are 20-30g and retired breeder mice are 31-50g.

15g mice is what i call a small adult.

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Oh ok. All mine weigh about 20-25g. So that's where I was getting that from. Thanks again Rich.

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Originally Posted by SpencerShanks

Alright, my fears have been subdued haha. If it clarifies anything, he's been eating the frozen "Small Adult Mice" from Arctic Mice. Well it's a good thing he's not underweight then. I've personally got no problem with him being a bit on the small side, he's a pet, not a breeding machine. Soon after I first got him I did try feeding him every 4 days, but when my parents found out they threw a fit haha. Once I have a source of income my snakes will be fed a wee bit more.

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Well he looks healthy but I would feed him 2 mice from now on if you can manage that with your folks. Still cheaper thn a dog lol.

Arctic Mice is crap. Especially when buying from petstores.

When they unload the trucks, boxes sit till their opened and put away. Ive had customers tell me how they buy mice from petco and their semi hard/soft. This is dangerous for your snakes gut.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Arctic Mice is crap. Especially when buying from petstores.

When they unload the trucks, boxes sit till their opened and put away. Ive had customers tell me how they buy mice from petco and their semi hard/soft. This is dangerous for your snakes gut.

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Yea when I first tried f/t I bought those and thy were awful. But now I have to feed live due to my picky girl. She wouldn't eat those things just constrict destroy and slither away.

He doesn't look underweight to me either, just small I guess. Probably wouldn't hurt to bulk him up a little bit though...

Thanks errbody for the input. Scared me at first, but it's all good now haha.
Unfortunately, right now Arctic Mice is my only option. My parents would never give in to buying live every week, and to my knowledge there aren't any local rat breeders that I could buy from. However, my friend's dad's friend (also my sister's ex's dad's friend, and my dad's friend's friend heehee) knows a guy in the area that breeds balls, so it's not unlikely that he breeds rats. I'll try to get in contact with him.

Returning the thread to the OP now :D

Just a bit of advice.

If you don't have a scale for whatever reason, I judge by the feeding bulge. If you feed prey that is big enough to leave a nice little bulge in your ball that lasts for a day or so, you are feeding enough.

Think thanksgiving dinner, not hot-dog eating contest.

Gale

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Originally Posted by Superpop

I have no idea...I don't have one of those scales. I read on here that if you don't have one of those scales you should feed roughly the same sized frozen/thawed prey as the snake's girth.

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As Daybreaker said 3 pages ago... ^^ this is correct. You could also feed something that's slightly larger than she is around. So I guess the short answer to your question is: yes, up the prey size.

Thanks everyone!:)

We fed Snickers her last mouse tonight.(we only buy 3 at once because we don't want them to stay in the freezer too long and become "freezer-burnt".)

We are going to up her prey-size to the smallest kind of rats now....any idea what they are called?(with mice it's pinky, hopper, adult)

Also we have a friend who comes over here frequently and she has a digital gram scale that she uses to weigh her food so we will have her bring it over next time so we can weigh Snickers and her prey.

^^

Forgot "fuzzy" for mice sizes.

What are the sizes of rats?

^ Pinky rats, Fuzzy rats, Pups, Weanling/Weaners, Small, Medium, Large, Extra Large/Jumbo...

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

^ Pinky rats, Fuzzy rats, Pups, Weanling/Weaners, Small, Medium, Large, Extra Large/Jumbo...

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Thanks!

Quick question....I probably won't be able to weigh Snickers or her prey before the next time I buy her prey.

Since her current prey size is adult mice I am guessing "pinky" and "fuzzy" rats are smaller than adult mice....

What size rat is the smallest size of rats that is bigger than an adult mouse?


I will get Snickers weighed as soon as I can but in the meantime I want to bump up to the next prey size but I am guessing pinky and fuzzy rats are still smaller than adult mice.

Ween rat is the first size (has some hair but is blind and pink). I would think it has more meat then a adult mouse (adult mice seem to be all puff with all that hair.) My normal bp can handle them and he/she is probably only 1.5" in diameter,girth probably 2-2.5".

Just on more question:

Snickers has never been a "picky" eater and had no problem transitioning over to bigger mice sizes but now I am a bit worried because it's now rats(and I'm sure they smell different)

I just don't want Snickers to freak out about being fed a different species now and refuse food.

Do most snakes transition from mice to rats easily?

I only have concerns because I don't want Snickers to go on a "hunger strike" to the point where I have to feed her "LIVE" prey....I'd much prefer F/T for her safety. (I have read once you feed "live" it's virtually impossible to make your snake eat F/T again and I don't want to get to the point where Snickers won't eat F/T)

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Originally Posted by Superpop

Just on more question:

Snickers has never been a "picky" eater and had no problem transitioning over to bigger mice sizes but now I am a bit worried because it's now rats(and I'm sure they smell different)

I just don't want Snickers to freak out about being fed a different species now and refuse food.

Do most snakes transition from mice to rats easily?

I only have concerns because I don't want Snickers to go on a "hunger strike" to the point where I have to feed her "LIVE" prey....I'd much prefer F/T for her safety. (I have read once you feed "live" it's virtually impossible to make your snake eat F/T again and I don't want to get to the point where Snickers won't eat F/T)

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I wouldn't think you would have a problem (not 100% sure) since a rat is still a rodent. A ween rat pretty much look's like a super pinky mouse. Before I fed my normal the ween rat, he she was getting f/t fuzzies. I fed him the ween rat only because I didn't want to waste it. I had intended to feed the ween rat to my larger normal bp that at the time hadn't eaten for me since I bought it. But, since she once again refused the ween rat? I didn't want to refreeze it. So, I figured it couldn't hurt to try and feed the smaller normal. The smaller normal has been before the rat eating like a champ. But, on the next feeding day he refused the ween rat. He striked it and constricted it but dropped it and didn't finish. So, I waited another week and tried again with a ween rat. He took it in no time flat and swallowed it without any hesitation. I'm guessing that it took him longer to feel hungry again. It's probably because the ween rat is a tad larger. I did notice today that he has grown alot in last two week's.

Weaned rat is not the smallest size rat. Daybreaker got the scale right:

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

^ Pinky rats, Fuzzy rats, Pups, Weanling/Weaners, Small, Medium, Large, Extra Large/Jumbo...

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They are called weaned rats because they have been weaned off their mother's milk and are eating regular food.

You can go here: http://www.frozenfeeder.com/sizing.html for a good conversion chart.

Some snakes switch right away and some are picky. There are a few methods for getting them to switch. You can try the "hungry" method where you wait it out and only offer rats till they get so hungry they take it. This takes a lot of willpower. There's the "scenting" method where you scent the rat with either a mouse or soiled mouse bedding in order to sort've trick your snake into eating the rat. I've used this method with quite a bit of success. I either thaw the rat in the same bag with the mice or I take the mouse and rub it all over the rat.

Just because a snake takes live once doesn't mean they're necessarily stuck on live for life. I've got a few that prefer live and will take them more readily, and then I've got some that will eat anything warm put in front of them. I've got an albino that I'm trying to switch to ft. He takes live great, but it takes quite a bit of the "zombie rat dance" to get him to take the ft. I have another who took live for me last week and ft tonight. So it really depends on the snake.

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Originally Posted by Gbusiness

I wouldn't think you would have a problem (not 100% sure) since a rat is still a rodent. A ween rat pretty much look's like a super pinky mouse. Before I fed my normal the ween rat, he she was getting f/t fuzzies. I fed him the ween rat only because I didn't want to waste it. I had intended to feed the ween rat to my larger normal bp that at the time hadn't eaten for me since I bought it. But, since she once again refused the ween rat? I didn't want to refreeze it. So, I figured it couldn't hurt to try and feed the smaller normal. The smaller normal has been before the rat eating like a champ. But, on the next feeding day he refused the ween rat. He striked it and constricted it but dropped it and didn't finish. So, I waited another week and tried again with a ween rat. He took it in no time flat and swallowed it without any hesitation. I'm guessing that it took him longer to feel hungry again. It's probably because the ween rat is a tad larger. I did notice today that he has grown alot in last two week's.

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I would consider upping your prey size. Most bps start out as hatchlings eating rat pinkies (the smallest size of rat). So unless your snake is less than 100 grams I'd think about increasing the size.

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Originally Posted by KatStoverReptiles

Weaned rat is not the smallest size rat. Daybreaker got the scale right:



They are called weaned rats because they have been weaned off their mother's milk and are eating regular food.

You can go here: http://www.frozenfeeder.com/sizing.html for a good conversion chart.

Some snakes switch right away and some are picky. There are a few methods for getting them to switch. You can try the "hungry" method where you wait it out and only offer rats till they get so hungry they take it. This takes a lot of willpower. There's the "scenting" method where you scent the rat with either a mouse or soiled mouse bedding in order to sort've trick your snake into eating the rat. I've used this method with quite a bit of success. I either thaw the rat in the same bag with the mice or I take the mouse and rub it all over the rat.

Just because a snake takes live once doesn't mean they're necessarily stuck on live for life. I've got a few that prefer live and will take them more readily, and then I've got some that will eat anything warm put in front of them. I've got an albino that I'm trying to switch to ft. He takes live great, but it takes quite a bit of the "zombie rat dance" to get him to take the ft. I have another who took live for me last week and ft tonight. So it really depends on the snake.

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Well I don't want to go down that road. If I can continue feeding frozen/thawed I want to continue down that road not only for Snickers' safety but for my well being as well! I don't think I could watch Snickers "kill" a mouse or rat.

I have RESCUED mice from being killed by cats before with my own hands. My friend had a very nice half million dollar house but he did have a mouse problem and he had a cat that killed those mice. Twice I was there and his cat found mice and got them them and played with them and the mice "played dead" instinctively and I scooped up those mice both times and ran outside a few blocks and then opened my hands on the ground and they bolted!(Everyone was amazed by my tenacity...though I'm pretty sure that cat hates my guts! Tough luck for the cat. Go eat your cat chow!)

I love all animals except for insects and arachnids(YUCK!)

Anyway I would have a difficult time feeding live prey to Snickers because not only would I worry about her safety doing so but It's just easier for me to feed prey that is already dead anyway.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

Well I don't want to go down that road. If I can continue feeding frozen/thawed I want to continue down that road not only for Snickers' safety but for my well being as well! I don't think I could watch Snickers "kill" a mouse or rat.

I have RESCUED mice from being killed by cats before with my own hands. My friend had a very nice half million dollar house but he did have a mouse problem and he had a cat that killed those mice. Twice I was there and his cat found mice and got them them and played with them and the mice "played dead" instinctively and I scooped up those mice both times and ran outside a few blocks and then opened my hands on the ground and they bolted!(Everyone was amazed by my tenacity...though I'm pretty sure that cat hates my guts! Tough luck for the cat. Go eat your cat chow!)

I love all animals except for insects and arachnids(YUCK!)

Anyway I would have a difficult time feeding live prey to Snickers because not only would I worry about her safety doing so but It's just easier for me to feed prey that is already dead anyway.

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Oh I agree. I PREFER to feed ft but when the snake is being stubborn and hasn't eaten in a month (he was 140g at the time) its time to give in. I was just simply illustrating that feeding live once doesn't mean they'll never eat ft again.

Although one of the feeder rats gave me a pretty bad bite one time. I didn't feel guilty feeding him off...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by KatStoverReptiles

Weaned rat is not the smallest size rat. Daybreaker got the scale right:



They are called weaned rats because they have been weaned off their mother's milk and are eating regular food.

You can go here: http://www.frozenfeeder.com/sizing.html for a good conversion chart.

Some snakes switch right away and some are picky. There are a few methods for getting them to switch. You can try the "hungry" method where you wait it out and only offer rats till they get so hungry they take it. This takes a lot of willpower. There's the "scenting" method where you scent the rat with either a mouse or soiled mouse bedding in order to sort've trick your snake into eating the rat. I've used this method with quite a bit of success. I either thaw the rat in the same bag with the mice or I take the mouse and rub it all over the rat.

Just because a snake takes live once doesn't mean they're necessarily stuck on live for life. I've got a few that prefer live and will take them more readily, and then I've got some that will eat anything warm put in front of them. I've got an albino that I'm trying to switch to ft. He takes live great, but it takes quite a bit of the "zombie rat dance" to get him to take the ft. I have another who took live for me last week and ft tonight. So it really depends on the snake.

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Ok Ok kat I'll retract my statement. Ween rat's are not the smallest rat you can buy,lol :taz:! I just took out some f/t ween's and small rat for today's feeding's. The ween rat look's nothing like I had described to the OP.
I'm sorry OP, but a ween rat is well developed already. Has all of it's fur and is larger than a pinky rat.
This size and stage of the rat's life should be a good start for you anyway (OP).

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Originally Posted by SpencerShanks

Alright, my fears have been subdued haha. If it clarifies anything, he's been eating the frozen "Small Adult Mice" from Arctic Mice. Well it's a good thing he's not underweight then. I've personally got no problem with him being a bit on the small side, he's a pet, not a breeding machine. Soon after I first got him I did try feeding him every 4 days, but when my parents found out they threw a fit haha. Once I have a source of income my snakes will be fed a wee bit more.

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If I were you I would still be a bit concerned. It sounds like you are underfeeding. At that size I would be offering 10% to 15% of your snakes weight every 5 days. If you don't know what your snake weighs you should go out and get a scale. For the record if you are going to breed a male BP you wouldn't fatten them up. You would want them lean. If your parents are complaining about money you need to get a source of income. When I was a kid I was a paper boy. It sucked but it was a source of income.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

Well I don't want to go down that road. If I can continue feeding frozen/thawed I want to continue down that road not only for Snickers' safety but for my well being as well! I don't think I could watch Snickers "kill" a mouse or rat.

I have RESCUED mice from being killed by cats before with my own hands. My friend had a very nice half million dollar house but he did have a mouse problem and he had a cat that killed those mice. Twice I was there and his cat found mice and got them them and played with them and the mice "played dead" instinctively and I scooped up those mice both times and ran outside a few blocks and then opened my hands on the ground and they bolted!(Everyone was amazed by my tenacity...though I'm pretty sure that cat hates my guts! Tough luck for the cat. Go eat your cat chow!)

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Stories like yours make me sad. You realize that those frozen mice were alive at one point right. Also the mice you released a few blocks away probably made it right back into your friends house. If not that particular mouse then its offspring.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

I love all animals except for insects and arachnids(YUCK!)

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Translation you love all cute animals. Makes me sad.

The OP didn't ask for your criticism, and doesn't need it.

Of course the OP realizes they were once alive. Doesn't make listening to the agonizing squeals of a poorly constricted mouse or rat any less painful. I fed F/T for a long time for the same reason. I eventually switched to live when my collection got so large that the wasted f/t rats from refusals got very expensive. I still cringe when a bad strike results in several minutes of heart-wrenching squeals.

And so what if the fool mouse did go right back to the house with the cat ? At least the OP did what made a difference at that moment. I do the same thing when a wild mouse gets into my house. I've got 6 cats, but they know if I catch any of them with a mouse, they HAVE to give it up, and I have no qualms about releasing that mouse back into the field behind my house.

As to not liking bugs and spiders, well most people don't. Even the majority of reptile people here can't deal with tarantulas and giant cockroaches and foot long centipedes. You were rude to the OP, and it was not called for.

Gale

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Stories like yours make me sad. You realize that those frozen mice were alive at one point right. Also the mice you released a few blocks away probably made it right back into your friends house. If not that particular mouse then its offspring.

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What's your deal? Did you reply just to pick a off-topic argument with me? OF COURSE I realize the frozen/thawed mice that Snickers were alive at one point!

So what makes you "sad"? The fact that I tried to rescue mice from a cat that has a bowl of perfectly good cat food to eat from?

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Translation you love all cute animals. Makes me sad.

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Your "translation" is incorrect.

I stated: "I love all animals except for insects and arachnids(YUCK!)" and that is indeed the case....There is plenty of animals that are not cute I have no problem with.

The reason I don't like bugs is not because of the cuteness factor but it is because I have an ingrained phobia of them.

If you want to pick little off-topic arguments with me in the future please don't put words in my mouth with your little "translations" just so you can feel so ":(" that I don't like bugs.

THANKS!

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Originally Posted by Egapal

If I were you I would still be a bit concerned. It sounds like you are underfeeding. At that size I would be offering 10% to 15% of your snakes weight every 5 days. If you don't know what your snake weighs you should go out and get a scale. For the record if you are going to breed a male BP you wouldn't fatten them up. You would want them lean. If your parents are complaining about money you need to get a source of income. When I was a kid I was a paper boy. It sucked but it was a source of income.

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It's not that I'm not concerned, it's that I'm not AS concerned because it turned out to not be as bad as I had first thought. The next time I get food, they'll be more appropriately sized. When I'm old enough to have an actual job, I will. Until then, I do what work I can for my mom.

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Originally Posted by SpencerShanks

It's not that I'm not concerned, it's that I'm not AS concerned because it turned out to not be as bad as I had first thought. The next time I get food, they'll be more appropriately sized. When I'm old enough to have an actual job, I will. Until then, I do what work I can for my mom.

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It doesn't appear bad at all Spencer, don't worry and don't let people make you worry needlessly. Your snake looks to be well proportioned and healthy. Snakes are not an exact science, should not be treated as such, and there are dozens of variables pertaining to each individual concerning feeding, prey size, growth rate, etc... You happen to have a small snake...big deal, it's fine.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

It doesn't appear bad at all Spencer, don't worry and don't let people make you worry needlessly. Your snake looks to be well proportioned and healthy. Snakes are not an exact science, should not be treated as such, and there are dozens of variables pertaining to each individual concerning feeding, prey size, growth rate, etc... You happen to have a small snake...big deal, it's fine.

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Thanks for that. One of those things that even when you know it's okay there's that little hint of doubt that I'm doing something wrong but just don't know it :L I'll probably always be like that, haha.
I'm obviously not super experienced, so I try to get as many views as I can on my questions. There's not always one correct answer, but in this case I'm going to go with him just being smaller than most snakes. He's a pet, no breeding plans for the near future, so his size isn't super important as long as he's healthy.

I did not intend to insult you or angllady2. This is a forum and when you speak in a forum you are speaking to everyone in that forum who cares to listen. My comments are not a personal attack they are a comment on the issue as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

What's your deal? Did you reply just to pick a off-topic argument with me? OF COURSE I realize the frozen/thawed mice that Snickers were alive at one point!

So what makes you "sad"? The fact that I tried to rescue mice from a cat that has a bowl of perfectly good cat food to eat from?

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What makes me sad is that you show a huge disconnect between feeding live and F/T on behalf of the mouse. This type of disconnect is part of a huge problem that we have as a culture that comes from a smaller and smaller portion of our population being involved in producing the food we eat. This disconnect drives the growth of industrial farms that are bad for the animals being consumed and the animals consuming. I don't know anything about your personal situation. Your rodents could be raised in better conditions than mine and then frozen for you. The disconnect makes me sad. As for the cat. You went into another persons house and stopped their cat from killing a mouse in a house with a mouse problem. Wild mice carry disease and an infestation is a health risk. I would have taken the mouse away from the cat too. I would never let my cat eat a disease ridden mouse. I would then humanly kill the mouse as the cat probably caused it pretty severe internal injuries in catching it and like I said its a pest not a pet.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

Your "translation" is incorrect.

I stated: "I love all animals except for insects and arachnids(YUCK!)" and that is indeed the case....There is plenty of animals that are not cute I have no problem with.

The reason I don't like bugs is not because of the cuteness factor but it is because I have an ingrained phobia of them.

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You are entirely correct I assumed and in doing so made an inflammatory comment that I know regret. I apologize. That being said I am now sad for a different reason. Phobia's are sad. I wish you luck in overcoming yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Superpop

If you want to pick little off-topic arguments with me in the future please don't put words in my mouth with your little "translations" just so you can feel so ":(" that I don't like bugs.

THANKS!

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Again I was not picking a fight with your. This is a forum. I am unclear is this a phobia or a matter of not liking. You make a point that you like all animals then specifically point out that you don't like bugs. I again assumed that you did so to make a point. Otherwise I am not sure why you mentioned it. If you are afraid of bugs I hope you are able to overcome that fear. If you just don't like them then I really just don't get it. They are a very important part of our planet. We wouldn't be here without them. Bees for instance are key to pollinating many of the foods we eat. Insects clean up the world around us. I hope you can learn to like them someday.

Okay so my boyfriend picked up the smallest F/T rat he could find at the petstore we shop at but it looked far too large to me.(it's not a full grown rat or anything but it looked far too large to me...it has all it's fur as well)

Anyway we went back to the pet store and purchased full-grown F/T mice again tonight because I was scared the rat was too big for Snickers.

Snickers ate 2 mice tonight. She ate one and then went in one of her hides for 20 minutes and then came out and ate the other.

As for the friend who I thought had a "gram" scale....It only measures pounds and ounces.

We still have the rat in the freezer but I'm scared of giving it to Snickers down the road because I don't know if snakes will try to swallow prey that they can't swallow or not!

Will a snake try to swallow bigger prey than their bodies can handle or not? I'd totally offer Snickers this rat in the future and would be fine if she refused it because it was too large but I don't want her to die trying to swallow too large of prey either.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

Snickers has a girth of roughly 4.25 - 4.50 inches at her widest(it's difficult to tell with a fabric tape measure) Snickers is eating full grown mice once a week and there is no "bulge" anymore and that is when she/he started tearing up the tank again.

Time to move to "baby rats" or?

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The prey should be as big around as the widest part of the snake. If the snake is looking thin, then it should be, of course, a bit bigger than that.
Once a snake is eating adult mice, it's a good time to switch them over to crawler rats, or hoppers, depending on their size, of course. If the snake refuses to switch, then start offering 2 mice each feeding.

Don't use jumbo (retired breeder) mice--they are high in fat, and don't provide good nutrition.

Look at the girth of the rat you got, and then look at the girth of your snake. Do they match? It's the simplest rule to use.
Snickers may refuse the rat simply because he's never eaten a rat before, and rats smell different. It may take time and tricks to swich him, but it's worth doing in the long run. Feeding one rat is better and less expensive than feeding 4 or 5 mice!

Snakes rarely swallow prey that is too large for them. Instead, they may begin to eat it, and then spit it back out. Rarely, they will get it down, and then regurgitate it...but I've personally never had one do that.
I have had a few females decide that a rat was too big, and leave it with a spit covered head for me, lol. (They were big 3500 gram girls, and the rats were smaller former breeders...it was worth a try).