HELP! "Scary" frozen mice...safe to feed?

I just got 130 frozen mice and 5 rats from a breeder and while picking through them to sort them for size, I noticed many had "bald spots" and "wounds".

He said, to his knowledge, they aren't ex-lab mice, he'd never had problems using them and they came from someplace like "Mice Direct" or somesuch name.

They look weird, though.

Can y'all take a look and tell me what you think caused the hairlessness?

http://www.walagata.com/w/the-salamander/scarymice.jpg

How would I know if they'd gotten thawed out and refrozen or were freezer burned?

I have absolutely no sense of smell so 'sniff tests' are hopeless.

Its a disease if seen this on pet rats at our local pet store and they got ride of them because they ended up getting a guine pig and hamsters sick. Its not worth it but are they all like that??

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Originally Posted by Kimosobey

Its a disease if seen this on pet rats at our local pet store and they got ride of them because they ended up getting a guine pig and hamsters sick. Its not worth it but are they all like that??

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No, just some of them.

Other than being bald, they look okay but I'm worried about my snakes eating them and the $47 doesn't seem like such a good buy, now.

The guy was on his way to work so there wasn't time to pick through and examine 130 mice.

Personally dealing with mice they do have a tendancy to fight at times and it looks like that could have been the case here, usually the hair comes off where the cuts are. The mouse in the middle looks like it still has a scab on it. You dont know if they were treated with any meds but regardless I would def stay away and cut ur losses on these IMO.

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Originally Posted by Slither4

Personally dealing with mice they do have a tendancy to fight at times and it looks like that could have been the case here, usually the hair comes off where the cuts are. The mouse in the middle looks like it still has a scab on it. You dont know if they were treated with any meds but regardless I would def stay away and cut ur losses on these IMO.

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These mice look like somebody put NAIR on them.

Just absolutely, utterly, newborn baby skin -bald-.

The worst one has a totally bald back.

I've seen ringworm, I've seen "barbering" and I've seen Pyoderma in rodents but I've never seen anything like this, before.

It reminds me of the fur sloughing off of a rotted animal.

My hubby is gonna go ballistic.

We drove 45 minutes each way to get them tonight.

:(

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Originally Posted by Slither4

Personally dealing with mice they do have a tendancy to fight at times and it looks like that could have been the case here, usually the hair comes off where the cuts are. The mouse in the middle looks like it still has a scab on it. You dont know if they were treated with any meds but regardless I would def stay away and cut ur losses on these IMO.

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The guy called me back and was really nice about it.
Said he'd refund my money gladly but these are the same mice that he's fed his snakes for years, bald spots and all and he'd never sell mice he wouldn't use, himself.
His snakes looked great, BTW.

His opinion was they were 'fighting' and many of the mice do have torn/bitten/healed ears.

The next herp show is a long ways off I don't know what to do....:(

Its not a disease at all nor a sickness.

Looks like the breeder is using subpar food which high fat and protein contents. Causing excessive scratching which leads to balding on the neck and under belly.

It wont harm your snake as its specie specific as what a mouse has cant be given to your snake. Just like you being sick, cant make the snake sick.

Freezer burns are white spots on rodents skins that will slowly turn color. Yours are still flesh color indicating what i posted aboce

If you keep them frozen for long enough, I don't see what the harm would be in feeding. Any parasites or fungus would eventually be killed by the freezing process. It would make me nervous too, to be honest. This is part of the reason I breed my own feeders.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Its not a disease at all nor a sickness.

Looks like the breeder is using subpar food which high fat and protein contents. Causing excessive scratching which leads to balding on the neck and under belly.

It wont harm your snake as its specie specific as what a mouse has cant be given to your snake. Just like you being sick, cant make the snake sick.

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Thank you Rich!

This is what "Mice Direct" says about their feeding:

3. "What kind of food do you feed your mice?"

We feed both our mice and our rats the FRM rodent feed, which is scientifically formulated and has a reputation for being the best rodent diet in the nation. We also offer this product to our customers who wish to raise or maintain live rodents.

For my live feeder mice, I use Rat Chow blocks.
They're all fat, furry and sassy.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Freezer burns are white spots on rodents skins that will slowly turn color. Yours are still flesh color indicating what i posted aboce

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Thank you again.

For the most part, their tails and paws are all still bright pink, too.

Read up on Hot Spots with mice and rats. Happens when they get too much fat and protein their kidney/liver cant digest.

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Thank you again.

For the most part, their tails and paws are all still bright pink, too.

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If its just flesh color spots its from nutrition problems. If its scabbing up, could be from excessive itching due to food and or fighting.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

If you keep them frozen for long enough, I don't see what the harm would be in feeding. Any parasites or fungus would eventually be killed by the freezing process. It would make me nervous too, to be honest. This is part of the reason I breed my own feeders.

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Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't have the space to breed mice or the guts to bonk them on the head, come supper time.

:oops:

I suppose if I consider it rationally, wild snakes eat much mangier rodents who are carrying who-knows-what diseases and parasites and seem to make it okay.

[if you think I'm awfully jumpy about this, you should see what I go through to make sure my dogs' food is "6 star" rated uber-food]....:O

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

If its just flesh color spots its from nutrition problems. If its scabbing up, could be from excessive itching due to food and or fighting.

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One had that bloody/scabby thing on its neck and the others have pinkish bald spots on their backs and necks with what appear to be either small punctures or scratches, whether from nails or teeth, I can't tell.

I've had pet mice and know that as cute as they are, they can be barbaric to one another...and what sex they are doesn't seem to matter much.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Read up on Hot Spots with mice and rats. Happens when they get too much fat and protein their kidney/liver cant digest.

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Really??

In all the decades I've had pet rats and mice, I never had that issue.
I reckon plain ol' cheapy Rat Chow skimps on both percentages, thank goodness.

Thanks for the heads-up.

I still have one pet rat and about 10 feeder mice to watch out for that problem.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Read up on Hot Spots with mice and rats. Happens when they get too much fat and protein their kidney/liver cant digest.

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"Mouse" or "rat hot spots" gave me some really kinky Google results that were of no use at all but I did find a photo of a very "barbered mouse" that looks like they do.

http://www.thefunmouse.com/info/hair-loss.cfm

[Google is weird]

Dont take everything on the link to heart. Thoes are about the worst case scenarios.

What your dealing with is mostly due to food and fighting.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Dont take everything on the link to heart. Thoes are about the worst case scenarios.

What your dealing with is mostly due to food and fighting.

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Bless your heart, Rich.

I'm no longer hyperventilating.

:)

I owe ya big!

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Dont take everything on the link to heart. Thoes are about the worst case scenarios.

What your dealing with is mostly due to food and fighting.

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I just looked up "FRM Rodent feed".

That stuff is garbage!




GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:


Crude Protein, Min. 25.00%
Crude Fat, Min. 10.00%
Crude Fiber, Max. 5.00%
Moisture, Max. 10.00%

INGREDIENTS:
Kibbled Corn, Poultry By Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Dried Distillers Grains, Poultry Fat, Dried Whey Product, Salt, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine, Pyridoxine, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Carbonate, Copper Oxide, Calcium Iodate and Cobalt Carbonate.


Purina Rat Chow is a fish based protein with wheat, alfalfa, soybean and several other grains.

That stuff up there isn't fit to feed pigs!

Theres your answer. Percentages are too much

This is what i feed and never have hot spots.

What their using is corn based which is a cheap filler to keep costs down, but in turn gives crappy results

Stuff i use says 23% but its actually a mixture of 19-23%

http://i43.tinypic.com/rjjjpf.jpg

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Theres your answer. Percentages are too much

This is what i feed and never have hot spots.

What their using is corn based which is a cheap filler to keep costs down, but in turn gives crappy results

Stuff i use says 23% but its actually a mixture of 19-23%

http://i43.tinypic.com/rjjjpf.jpg

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Same with my dogs.

If the word "corn" appears in any form, it doesn't come here.
[soy, either]

One of my Ibizan Hounds was so sensitive to corn it actually made him manic.

Taste Of The Wild makes the best stuff.
Mine like the High Plains Bison/venison blend and the salmon/fish blend.

I don't think they should live completely on meat because dogs are truly omnivores so I mix it with a feed Tractor & Supply recently started selling called "4Life".

The chicken-based small bits formula is really good.

Is the food you use available online?

I can only get Purina special order, otherwise I'm stuck using some kind of rat Chow analogs available at the local pet stores.
[which still beats that corn junk food]

I'd second what Rich said about it being "hot" spots from them itching, breaking the skin and then either continuing to scratch at it and/or the other mice picking at it. As far as Kent Feeds, here's there web-site for finding a distributor:

http://www.kentfeeds.com/

I feed my rats Native Earth which is made by (and is) Harlan rodent food. I've never had any issues with "hot" spots or breakouts like what you have pictured there. I don't have a huge operation or number of rats but my litters, on that diet, average 13 per female, with the highest being 18. That's all I've ever fed and I'm perfectly happy with it. There's any number of options, some better than others and it all depends on what you want to pay and where you're located. Good luck and hope that helps! :gj:

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

I'd second what Rich said about it being "hot" spots from them itching, breaking the skin and then either continuing to scratch at it and/or the other mice picking at it. As far as Kent Feeds, here's there web-site for finding a distributor:

http://www.kentfeeds.com/

I feed my rats Native Earth which is made by (and is) Harlan rodent food. I've never had any issues with "hot" spots or breakouts like what you have pictured there. I don't have a huge operation or number of rats but my litters, on that diet, average 13 per female, with the highest being 18. That's all I've ever fed and I'm perfectly happy with it. There's any number of options, some better than others and it all depends on what you want to pay and where you're located. Good luck and hope that helps! :gj:

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Thank you SO much!!!

:gj:

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

I'd second what Rich said about it being "hot" spots from them itching, breaking the skin and then either continuing to scratch at it and/or the other mice picking at it. As far as Kent Feeds, here's there web-site for finding a distributor:

http://www.kentfeeds.com/

I feed my rats Native Earth which is made by (and is) Harlan rodent food. I've never had any issues with "hot" spots or breakouts like what you have pictured there. I don't have a huge operation or number of rats but my litters, on that diet, average 13 per female, with the highest being 18. That's all I've ever fed and I'm perfectly happy with it. There's any number of options, some better than others and it all depends on what you want to pay and where you're located. Good luck and hope that helps! :gj:

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OMG!

The store I get my dog food at is a distributor!

I know the owner will special order it for me if she doesn't already carry it, which she probably doesn't because it's primarily a livestock store.

Thanks!!!