Anyone keep Poison dart frogs

Interested in finding out how your enclosures are set up. Getting ready to make a live vivarium would love to see pics and here about your set ups and husbandry.

I do.

I have 4 different species and 7 vivariums at the moment. I set mine up with a false bottom and clay background as it is so much easier than using the great stuff and silicone.

Husbandry is 80-100% humidity, 70-80 degrees F (no hotter) during the day and they can easily stand a 10 degree drop at night.

In the hobby's opinion frogs should be kept in same morph, opposite sex pairs. This way eliminates a lot of aggression, cross contamination of pathogens, and hybridization if breeding (they WILL breed). We (the hobby) like to keep our captive animals with the same genetics as they are found in the wild.

You can see some of our frogs pictures by clicking on the frog, that will take you to our facebook page. I will post pics of vivariums in a few minutes, I actually have none on hand!

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Originally Posted by aldebono

...should be kept in same morph, opposite sex pairs.

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so when you say this, you mean two frogs per viv? one male one female? or can you have multiple pairs, as long as you have a 1.1 gender ratio?
also, is a 10gal suitable? and, assuming i can have multiple pairs, how many pairs can i have in one 10g?

im not trying to hijack, ive just been curious about these guys, and thought i'd ask since the subject came up

No hijack I'm trying to learn as much as possible as well.

No hijack I'm trying to learn as much as possible as well. Im going to be setting up a 40 gallon for just one frog at the moment

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Originally Posted by cmack91

so when you say this, you mean two frogs per viv? one male one female? or can you have multiple pairs, as long as you have a 1.1 gender ratio?
also, is a 10gal suitable? and, assuming i can have multiple pairs, how many pairs can i have in one 10g?

im not trying to hijack, ive just been curious about these guys, and thought i'd ask since the subject came up

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Some species are better group frogs than others. All the tanks you are about to see that have Dendrobates tinctorius species in them are either in a 1.1 pair or a 1.0.1 and the unknown will be traded with a female if it turns out male. The vivs with my Ranitomeya imitator "Intermedius" are also in a 1.1 pair.

The males will fight, the females will fight and eat eggs. It is best to keep them to a pair per vivarium.

Some people have luck with a 2.1, but aggression is so very very subtle and I would do something larger than a 20 gallon.

You are going to be pressed for space in a 10 gallon with a pair of D. tinctorius. D. auratus would be better for a pair in a 10 gallon. I would not do more than two frogs to a 10 gallon.

As I was saying, some species are better group frogs. You will see 4 ping pong balls in one of the vivs, it is still a 40 gallon.


Common species that are good in groups in my opinion are...

Phyllobates, Hyloxalus, Ranitomeya lamasi, R. variabilis, R. ventramaculata

Species OK in groups (may be egg eating, some aggression)

D. leucomelas, D. auratus, Adelphobates galactonotus

Species to keep in 1.1 pair

D. ticntorius, R. imitator, Oophaga


There are many many other types of darts out there and definitely one to fit your size, color, and activity specifications.


Just remember, they are very diurnal frogs. I would love to have all my pairs of tinctorius in a 40 gallon breeders because they would use every inch of it.


Pictures are still loading to Photobucket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aldebono

I do.

I have 4 different species and 7 vivariums at the moment. I set mine up with a false bottom and clay background as it is so much easier than using the great stuff and silicone.

Husbandry is 80-100% humidity, 70-80 degrees F (no hotter) during the day and they can easily stand a 10 degree drop at night.

In the hobby's opinion frogs should be kept in same morph, opposite sex pairs. This way eliminates a lot of aggression, cross contamination of pathogens, and hybridization if breeding (they WILL breed). We (the hobby) like to keep our captive animals with the same genetics as they are found in the wild.

You can see some of our frogs pictures by clicking on the frog, that will take you to our facebook page. I will post pics of vivariums in a few minutes, I actually have none on hand!

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I know ABSOLUTELY nothing about these frogs (except that they look AWESOME!) so excuse my ignorance, but according to what you're saying, it'd be frowned upon to get 3 or 4 different color morphs of the same sex and keep them together in the same tank?

Yes it would be frowned upon within the hobby. Even if you are not planning to breed. If you have a male and a female, they WILL breed.

We keep them separate because they are found in separate locations in the wild. Even though D. tinctorius is all the same animal, they have evolved into different color morphs within their separated locations.

There would be no way to identify a hybrid locality frog, and our goal is to keep them in captivity as they occur in the wild.

I believe the killifish keepers are just as anal about keeping each genetic population separate in captivity as it was separate in the wild.

They also could be carrying (even though they are captive bred) pathogens that other locality frogs are not immune to, thus harming your other frogs.


Does any of this make sense or does the frog hobby just sound crazy?

Will they be stressed if multiple enclosures with different frogs/species were kept next to each other? Like wall to wall so the other frogs are visible to each other. Jumping in on the frog expert questioning session :)

It all makes sense and I thank you for the info. I'm looking forward to the frog hobby being more detailed as the balls really don't require much

No, they don't care if they are housed next to each other or even in a large tank with a built in divider.

The frogs are a lot of fun, they are very easy and are definitely a display animal.

Frog Rack
Top left to right: 0.1.1 Tokay Gecko, 0.0.2 Ranitomeya imitator "Intermedius, 1.1 R. imitator "Intermedius"

Middle left to right: 1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius "Cobalt", 1.1 D. tinctorius "Patricia"

Bottom left to right: 1.0.1 D. tinctorius "Nikita", "Cobalt" froglet morph out and grow up tank

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...IMAG0610-1.jpg

1.1 "Patricia"

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...IMAG0611-1.jpg

1.1 "Cobalt"

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...IMAG0612-1.jpg

1.1 "Intermedius"

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...2/IMAG0615.jpg

1.0.1 "Nikita"

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...2/IMAG0616.jpg

0.0.4 Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...2/IMAG0621.jpg

Sorry they are blurry, it's hard to take pictures through the glass with a camera phone.

so, will the 70-80 degrees work for all species, or do some need specific temps?

70-80 degrees for most all species. Some can tolerate higher temps (85 degrees) but a safe bet is to keep it under 80. These guys do not need a basking light, a heat lamp, an under tank heater etc. They do not need a UVB light, the glass top lid is going to filter out most all the UVB anyway.

The insects need to be dusted with a vitamin and calcium supplemented every feeding with the supplement powder (found at all pet stores) as the insects they eat are not very nutritious.

What about bumblebee toads? how are those in groups? I heard about those on facebook whilst asking about group frogs?
/Hijack

I would love to have a set up in my living room as display, since the snakes are in a room that the door to closes so guests dont get wierded out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aldebono

70-80 degrees for most all species. Some can tolerate higher temps (85 degrees) but a safe bet is to keep it under 80. These guys do not need a basking light, a heat lamp, an under tank heater etc. They do not need a UVB light, the glass top lid is going to filter out most all the UVB anyway.

The insects need to be dusted with a vitamin and calcium supplemented every feeding with the supplement powder (found at all pet stores) as the insects they eat are not very nutritious.

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80 or lower it is, are they picky eaters? what can i feed them besides crickets? preferably something i can keep a colony of that arent crickets

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Originally Posted by cmack91

80 or lower it is, are they picky eaters? what can i feed them besides crickets? preferably something i can keep a colony of that arent crickets

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Most crickets are to large. You can feed pinheads, but from what I've learned most feed flightless fruit flies. Which is what I'll be doing as well

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Originally Posted by Bagged1

Most crickets are to large. You can feed pinheads, but from what I've learned most feed flightless fruit flies. Which is what I'll be doing as well

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cool, that will makes things easier

They are not picky eaters and there are lots of foods you can culture to feed them. Flightless/Wingless Fruit Flies, Bean and Flour Beetles, Springtails, and Isopods are some of the readily available feeders, some also double as tank janitors.

I do not feed crickets, not even pinheads. Crickets are evil things that will chew your animals if left in the tank with nothing to eat. Think of feeding pinheads and then a few months later seeing a monster adult cricket in there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oliverstwist

What about bumblebee toads? how are those in groups? I heard about those on facebook whilst asking about group frogs?
/Hijack

I would love to have a set up in my living room as display, since the snakes are in a room that the door to closes so guests dont get wierded out

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Bumble bee toads do well in groups, but are not as flashy or active as dart. Still a very cute toad.

While I don't currently keep 'em, I have set up vivs with the intention of keeping 'em.

From the viewpoint of someone looking to get into darts, my best advice is that once you get 'serious' about it, try putting together a viv and try culturing feeders, preferably months in advance of a potential purchase. If you are like me, you'll put 10 or more hours into designing and building a viv, and once you're finished you're going to want to redo it with a number of things you learned along the way.

We opted to not get dart froggies with our schedules that take us away for days at a time. Snakes and geckos are a much better fit for our lifestyle.

On top of that, frog temperatures are out of line for what we like for the rest of our species, especially since we seasonally cycle.

I definitely agree with Mainbutter. Get serious, but don't get burned out. They are addictive but go slow and only keep the species you are really interested in.

thanks for all that info, it will help me alot when deciding what frogs to get later on

Thanks for all the info, got my frog now. Have him in a temporary set up for about 60 days until his vivarium is completely stable for him, he's doing well and taking food like a machine, he's pretty awsome I can just sit and watch him for hours:)

Congrats! What kind?