Racks or altered closet?

I'm going to start breeding ball pythons and I thought it would be easier and more cost efficient to change my walk-in closet into a reptile room than to get racks. I would put a room heater and a humidifier in it and use plastic bins either stacked on the floor or in bookcases. Would this work?

*subscribe* I am contemplating a similar set up.

Cost vs racks etc pros and cons would be nice

Well for racks if you run out of room you have to buy or build another one, but for a room you just have to get another bin.
You also don't have to worry about heat tape or expensive thermostats. Do heaters have thermostats in them?

They wont have a temp gradient so that wont work.

You will NEED a heat source, hot spot & cool spot.

How do you have your current ball python setup? I hope she has a heat source lol.

She's in a 30 gallon tank with a heat lamp.

Doesn't BHB (or whichever one that makes Snakebytes) do something similar?

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Originally Posted by reptilesk2

they wont have a temp gradient so that wont work.

You will need a heat source, hot spot & cool spot.

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x2

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Originally Posted by Kittycatpenut

She's in a 30 gallon tank with a heat lamp.

Doesn't BHB (or whichever one that makes Snakebytes) do something similar?

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You might want to switch her to a heat mat or heat tape.

They do heat up their rooms, but they still use a heat source.

Not trying to be mean but if you cant afford heat tape then maybe you shouldn't start breeding ball pythons.

They heat the room to the cool side temp (80ish). Then there is a strip of flexwatt under one side of the tubs. This provides the basking temps (90ish)

I use a heat lamp because it works. The temps stay around 85 on the hot side with a 90 basking spot and don't drop too much at night. Also the humidity is at 50-60% normally and 60-70% while she's shedding.

If there is heat tape at the bottom of BHB's racks than why are the tubs stacked on top of each other without shelves in between them?

The heat tape is probably along the bottom of the shelf. Like so:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a2...6/PC050845.jpg

Heat tape along the bottom of each shelf. In the back. Keeps the back at ~90 and the ambient in the room is ~80.

My thought is to use the closet as a walk in incubator.


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Originally Posted by Kittycatpenut

If there is heat tape at the bottom of BHB's racks than why are the tubs stacked on top of each other without shelves in between them?

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I haven't seen BHB's setup, but there ARE breeders who just use a higher ambient temp instead of a temp gradient with heat tape. During the summer, my snake room gets up to 83-85F, so I turn off all supplemental heat, and they do just fine. My concern with your plan is keeping the temps up during the winter. It takes a LOT of power to heat a room (even if it's a closet). The space would need to be extremely well-insulated. The other downside is that if you are going to cool to breed, you now have to cool everyone, even younger BPs that you might not want to go off feed.

Note: Racks are a lot easier to deal with than a bunch of tubs stacked on top of each other (the whole stack has to be moved any time you want to access a lower tub). Even in the scenario you're presenting, I'd recommend a rack system for ease of access to the individual tubs.

It's not that racks are too expensive, it's that I'd rather use the money from them on more/more expensive snakes.
A closet is a lot easier to insulate than larger rooms.
For cooling them off I could put the adults in one closet and hatchlings in another.
I'd rather spend a few more minutes moving tubs than spend a huge amount of money on racks. It's like cooking; I'd rather cook a cheap meal then go out to a resturaunt.
I'm not able to build racks because we moved and left most of our tools (we have 3 hammers and a screwdriver) so it would be at least 300 for each rack. I would need at least 2 racks, one hatchling and one adult, and with that 600 I could get a pretty nice snake or two.

You could go to Target and get the adjustable metel shelves ($49) and put your tubs on those with the heat tape under your tubs. They are not very expensive and neither is the heat tape. Thermostates are more $$$. And each shelving unit should have their own. Then you could cool the adults for breeding and keep the babies at a higher temp. And you are probably going to have to heat the entire room anyhow even with heat tape. Most houses are set to 72 or 74, right?
And these racks (shelves) are no tools required!!! :P

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Originally Posted by Kittycatpenut

If there is heat tape at the bottom of BHB's racks than why are the tubs stacked on top of each other without shelves in between them?

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I think you're thinking about their colubrid egg boxes...? Because their room is the right temp for incubating colubrid eggs, they don't have to put them in an incubator. No snakes are kept in them for long, it's just the eggs before they hatch. After they hatch, they're moved into their own tubs with a proper hot spot. The snakes aren't kept stacked up like that.

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

I think you're thinking about their colubrid egg boxes...? Because their room is the right temp for incubating colubrid eggs, they don't have to put them in an incubator. No snakes are kept in them for long, it's just the eggs before they hatch. After they hatch, they're moved into their own tubs with a proper hot spot. The snakes aren't kept stacked up like that.

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Yup this is correct ! My suggestion is to wait a few months and save up. Then get some pre-made racks. They work amazingly. You will only need a hatchling rack to begin with, and you can keep saving and working your way to a sub-adult rack and then lastly the 41 quart racks for the females. All in all, starting to breed ball pythons is not a cheap investment. Racks, thermostats, bedding, food, incubators, cost of the actual snakes, it all adds up to a lot. Think of it as a business venture: do you really want to cut corners with your housing just to get more expensive morphs? What if those expensive morphs dont do so well in a sub-standard living environment and die or become sick? If I were to buy expensive morphs, I would definitely make sure everything is fool proof so that in the end you dont waste any money. Since you brought up BHB, Bryan's most helpful advice to future breeders is to plan out every single thing you are doing. Great advice imo :gj:

Another cheaper way to go would be to just put shelving up on the walls of the closet to put tubs on. You can get shelves with "L" brackets for pretty cheap (just make sure they can handle the weight). You could even do heat mats to a power strip to a thermostat or heat cable to give them a hot spot. If I wasnt in an apartment and had a nice walk in closet I would prolly do this. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and remember only some cool their pythons for breeding season, I dont and am having good success (knock on wood), as well as many large breeders...

I'm pretty sure they pulled a bp out of it, but I have a crappy memory.
I have done research and I know how much everything costs; good thermostats are 200-300, commercial racks are 300-1000+, home made racks are around 100, incubator(home made) up to 300, food and substrate(paper towels/newspaper) depends but I estimated 500 for a year, snakes 2000- 3000.
I can't do anything permanent because I live in an apartment, but the shelves are a good idea.
How is the heated room system sub-standard if people use it with no problems?
I'm probably going to build racks like Wapadi said, but I have no experience with wiring heat tape.

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Originally Posted by ReptilesK2

You might want to switch her to a heat mat or heat tape.

They do heat up their rooms, but they still use a heat source.

Not trying to be mean but if you cant afford heat tape then maybe you shouldn't start breeding ball pythons.

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So i Guess VPI shouldnt be breeding then. They dont use anything but a 88-90F room temp and nothing else. Its Cheaper in the long run and Safer as well.

Sounds like you need to keep reading on how breeding operations are done.

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Originally Posted by Kittycatpenut

I'm not able to build racks because we moved and left most of our tools (we have 3 hammers and a screwdriver) so it would be at least 300 for each rack. I would need at least 2 racks, one hatchling and one adult, and with that 600 I could get a pretty nice snake or two.

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Racks are only as expensive as you make them.

A used bookshelf, some flexwatt, 40qt sterilite tubs, and a hammer and a pair of pliers for the flexwatt :)
All you need is a hammer to nail the shelves closer together so the snakes can't escape out of the lids of the tubs.
I prefer heat under my snakes year around but as has been said, a room kept at the proper ambient temperature is all that's necessary.
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...amineshelf.jpg

I think I'm going to heat the room to around 88 degrees. It's just the easiest thing for me, and I don't have to worry about heat tape fires. Good luck to all of you :)

Fires from heat tape come from bad wiring. IF done right its safe, just takes time and more money to start up.

I would love to use just room temp but its not comfortable to work in.

I probably could use heat tape, but I don't want to risk it. I used to live in Texas, so the temps won't bother me too much. :P

You could also use heat cord, then you dont have to worry about the fire hazard...

Do any people on this site use ambient temps instead of racks?

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Originally Posted by Kittycatpenut

Do any people on this site use ambient temps instead of racks?

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I used to, when i bred Colubrids. And there are few one on top of my head is Deborah(mod) she keeps her room about 86-87. Which is all thats needed with ball pythons.