Don't Really know what I am doing yet........

Ok so I have been trying to breed rats for about 4 weeks now with no luck...(the last time i had a litter it was so fast and by accident so i thought it would be fast also)... so I know how to tell if ball pythons are gravid but how do you tell if a rat is... i have pic below to see if you guys can tell me if they are pregnant?


Also when do you think they will give birth??

any help appreciated.

Rat #1

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSC_0006.jpg

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSC_0005.jpg

Rat #2

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSC_0003.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSC_0002.jpg

Rat #3

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSC_0001.jpg

Dont think so. When they are pregnant , they look like a pear. Sometimes they dont even look pregnant and just give you 3-5 pups. Just keep trying. They will do their business.

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Originally Posted by inca666

Dont think so. When they are pregnant , they look like a pear. Sometimes they dont even look pregnant and just give you 3-5 pups. Just keep trying. They will do their business.

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yea i am pairing my females with only one male so he is in each cage for about a week. is that long enough or should i keep him in longer?

can anyone tell me how long it takes to produce a litter? am i doing something wrong? can't find a step by step to rat breeding i am keeping 2:1 ratio but besides that i dont know what i am doing

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Originally Posted by Steven Raymer

can anyone tell me how long it takes to produce a litter? am i doing something wrong? can't find a step by step to rat breeding i am keeping 2:1 ratio but besides that i dont know what i am doing

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first off, i've been doing this a month.. I "had" 4 females pregnant. one passed last night while giving birth..

From my research I came across they become fertile every 4 to 5 days. So how I do mine is I leave the male in with a female for 5 to 7 days, and then alternate between them. You really can;t see signs of pregnancy early on till about day 15-19? (IMO so far) so i continue to alternate the male until i visibly see the female become "fatter" It's easier then what you're trying to make it. Trust me, I started like that but just did some research and watched and now i feel okay. Am I saying I'm a expert? no. :o but i can help you with what i've learned.

just dont stress it to much. just let them do there thing and you'll be fine and hopefully have some babies soon enough!

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Originally Posted by zeion97

first off, i've been doing this a month.. I "had" 4 females pregnant. one passed last night while giving birth..

From my research I came across they become fertile every 4 to 5 days. So how I do mine is I leave the male in with a female for 5 to 7 days, and then alternate between them. You really can;t see signs of pregnancy early on till about day 15-19? (IMO so far) so i continue to alternate the male until i visibly see the female become "fatter" It's easier then what you're trying to make it. Trust me, I started like that but just did some research and watched and now i feel okay. Am I saying I'm a expert? no. :o but i can help you with what i've learned.

just dont stress it to much. just let them do there thing and you'll be fine and hopefully have some babies soon enough!

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Thank you for all your help!!

This is what I do to tell if they are pregnant. It's easier for me to tell this way.

Pick the rat up by the tail, belly facing you. If the belly is ROUNDER or PLUMP, odds are, she's pregnant. If it's really plump, she's very pregnant.

The nipples will also start to become more prominent when they are pregnant.

:-D

My females stay with my males all the time, even with litters ;)

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Originally Posted by reptilegirl07

This is what I do to tell if they are pregnant. It's easier for me to tell this way.

Pick the rat up by the tail, belly facing you. If the belly is ROUNDER or PLUMP, odds are, she's pregnant. If it's really plump, she's very pregnant.

The nipples will also start to become more prominent when they are pregnant.

:-D

My females stay with my males all the time, even with litters ;)

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I will try that!! thanks!!!

my females will stay with my males when i have enough males to go around lol

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Originally Posted by Steven Raymer

I will try that!! thanks!!!

my females will stay with my males when i have enough males to go around lol

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that is your best and I plan on doing that as well..

BUT. not trying to start a fight, SOME male rats will eat there babies, I haven't had the mis-fortune yet of seeing this (knocks on wood) but it is possible. If this happens make sure you separate them!

If this happens, I suggest culling your buck.

I've been breeding rats for a few years now and have not had this happen... yet. I suppose anything is possible and I would personally cull the buck that does this to ensure you don't pass that on, and you get rid of a buck that doesn't fit your breeding plans (if you want to keep the buck with the does).

Moms will cull if they are stressed, tubs are over crowded, they run out of food/water, you bug them (if they aren't used to it) or if the babies have something wrong with them.

I've heard bucks will cull the litter if it's not theirs. I have no first hand experience with that.


:-D

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Originally Posted by reptilegirl07

If this happens, I suggest culling your buck.

I've been breeding rats for a few years now and have not had this happen... yet. I suppose anything is possible and I would personally cull the buck that does this to ensure you don't pass that on, and you get rid of a buck that doesn't fit your breeding plans (if you want to keep the buck with the does).

Moms will cull if they are stressed, tubs are over crowded, they run out of food/water, you bug them (if they aren't used to it) or if the babies have something wrong with them.

I've heard bucks will cull the litter if it's not theirs. I have no first hand experience with that.


:-D

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I've seen a male kill another males babies.... ugly site at a pet store.. ;/
I've also had one of my MICE kill 2 of her young that were weaker.

And I'd second that, unless hes a awesome breeder put him down, or use him for food. (if you mean the definition of culling to put down, as it CAN be used to separate animals.) Either way is good, Rats do make good pets though im not TO found of them.

This web-site is focused on breeding for the pet rat side of things but the information is still applicable to breeding feeders...just don't post comments or ask for help if they find out you're raising FOOD, lol!

http://www.80stoysale.com/ratbreeding.html

I'm by no means an expert at raising them and get lost in a jungle of allele locus and what constitutes a self vs. an Irish Berkshire (Irish Carbomb!? Yes, please, and a double at that!) but what I've found to work for me: I run mine in 1:2 ratios of males to females. I have a couple concrete tub racks that mine live in. I've recently begun rotating the males out on a weekly basis, just to try and stagger the production some, as I had a few weeks with six or seven litters all at once and not enough snakes to feed them to. Food, water, and the correct temperatures (mine are in a climate controlled bonus room over my garage and the temps run in the mid 70's). I feed Native Earth (Harlan 4018) and occasionally grapes and/or organic plain yogurt and/or hard boiled eggs, especially when a female is nursing.

I've tried all the possibilites as far as leaving two females together, separating them out, leaving the male in with two girls, taking the male out, leaving the male with a single girl, etc. I've not really found anything to work better than another and couldn't really say except that it comes down to personal preference. I remove my males from the tubs just to give the females time to nurse and recover from their pregnancies so they aren't being bred back-to-back. It's slower but with only six snakes, it works for me as far as production and having the right size food item to offer when I need it. Here's an awesome chart that helps to give you some ideas as to how to cycle your males/females:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Many-to-Breed

As one of the other posters suggested, don't stress it. I did when I first got started with mine and it didn't help anything. Put a female and a male together and they'll figure things out, lol! Good luck, sorry for the novel but I hope somewhere I offered some info that might help. Take care!

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

This web-site is focused on breeding for the pet rat side of things but the information is still applicable to breeding feeders...just don't post comments or ask for help if they find out you're raising FOOD, lol!

http://www.80stoysale.com/ratbreeding.html

I'm by no means an expert at raising them and get lost in a jungle of allele locus and what constitutes a self vs. an Irish Berkshire (Irish Carbomb!? Yes, please, and a double at that!) but what I've found to work for me: I run mine in 1:2 ratios of males to females. I have a couple concrete tub racks that mine live in. I've recently begun rotating the males out on a weekly basis, just to try and stagger the production some, as I had a few weeks with six or seven litters all at once and not enough snakes to feed them to. Food, water, and the correct temperatures (mine are in a climate controlled bonus room over my garage and the temps run in the mid 70's). I feed Native Earth (Harlan 4018) and occasionally grapes and/or organic plain yogurt and/or hard boiled eggs, especially when a female is nursing.

I've tried all the possibilites as far as leaving two females together, separating them out, leaving the male in with two girls, taking the male out, leaving the male with a single girl, etc. I've not really found anything to work better than another and couldn't really say except that it comes down to personal preference. I remove my males from the tubs just to give the females time to nurse and recover from their pregnancies so they aren't being bred back-to-back. It's slower but with only six snakes, it works for me as far as production and having the right size food item to offer when I need it. Here's an awesome chart that helps to give you some ideas as to how to cycle your males/females:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Many-to-Breed

As one of the other posters suggested, don't stress it. I did when I first got started with mine and it didn't help anything. Put a female and a male together and they'll figure things out, lol! Good luck, sorry for the novel but I hope somewhere I offered some info that might help. Take care!

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WOW thats a lot of info, THANKS!!!!! I am just stressing because my snakes need food soon.... and I cant pay the prices they want in Oklahoma (expectantly in the summer when my ball's are eating every four days)

My opinion? People who are breeding feeders, often overthink this too much.

Stick 2 or 3 female rats in a bin with a male, give them food and water and keep them clean, and they will produce gobs of babies for you. After 4 months or so, hold back a nice group of 3 more females and a male, and set them up in another bin. They'll be producing when your original group slows down.

Yes, this will shorten the rats' lifespans, but not nearly as much as you will when you feed them off once their production slows down.

If one of your females eats babies, feed her off. If the male eats babies, feed him off. The odds of this happening aren't actually very high.

Rats are very social animals, and if you set them up in a group while they're young, they usually get along and take care of each other and all the babies. Even the males can be paternal toward babies in their established 'colony'. When they are always together, the male knows the babies are his.

If you can get a big enough cage I also like the 1:2 set up. As for the males, rarely I see a male who kills babies, but much more often I see males who are better moms then the females. Few things are as cute as big daddy trying to take a nap and the babies are using his head as a diving board : )

If I were you I would check out this link;

http://www.metalmonkeyexotics.com/blog/?page_id=329

I have been following this information and find it spot on and very easy to understand.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

My opinion? People who are breeding feeders, often overthink this too much.

Stick 2 or 3 female rats in a bin with a male, give them food and water and keep them clean, and they will produce gobs of babies for you. After 4 months or so, hold back a nice group of 3 more females and a male, and set them up in another bin. They'll be producing when your original group slows down.

Yes, this will shorten the rats' lifespans, but not nearly as much as you will when you feed them off once their production slows down.

If one of your females eats babies, feed her off. If the male eats babies, feed him off. The odds of this happening aren't actually very high.

Rats are very social animals, and if you set them up in a group while they're young, they usually get along and take care of each other and all the babies. Even the males can be paternal toward babies in their established 'colony'. When they are always together, the male knows the babies are his.

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SPOT ON :D

I've been breeding rodents since the mid 80's. When I was just starting out, I used to overthink everything.
I remove males all the time, very often replace them with a younger buck, even with pinks in the tub. If the rats are socialized, they more often than not will have no problem with another males babies.
Don't over think it, rats are easy. Mice, not so much...
Put your females with your male, leave them to do their business. If you need to, replace a cannibal.... It's really that easy. If the rats are old enough, you should start getting babies within a month...

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Originally Posted by jasbus

SPOT ON :D

I've been breeding rodents since the mid 80's. When I was just starting out, I used to overthink everything.
I remove males all the time, very often replace them with a younger buck, even with pinks in the tub. If the rats are socialized, they more often than not will have no problem with another males babies.
Don't over think it, rats are easy. Mice, not so much...
Put your females with your male, leave them to do their business. If you need to, replace a cannibal.... It's really that easy. If the rats are old enough, you should start getting babies within a month...

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I agree with you and WingedWolfPsion. I leave my males in with the females and have had no probs running 1.3 and 1.4 tubs. They seem to figure it out themselves.

I'm running anywhere from 1.2 to 1.6 right now(the 1.6 is one huge tub, and they're all young too).

At a month, you're probably right on schedule. I think rat gestation is 25 days? so if it took a bit for them to GET prego, then about a month for them to BE prego, then BLAMO babies appear and begin squeaking.

I did look at rotating males in and out of tubs, but honestly, I'm not very good at complex scheduling, so I decided to try leaving males in. I have removed one male, because I lost two litters in the group, and haven't lost more litters since then. Was it him? Was it young moms being stupid? I don't know for sure yet. He's in with some more females to see how he does. Since he's a big blue dumbo, I do want his genes.

Hang in there! You'll get babies soon!

Got a litter today!!!!!! She gave birth last night around midnight to 14 babies..:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

I am a little concerned with the fact that they seem not to stay on top of the pine i have already taken a lot of it out should I take out more?:confused::confused:

I also took out the female she was with so that I could breed her with the male by them self's.:rofl::rofl:

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...DSC_0001-1.jpg

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...DSC_0003-1.jpg

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSC_0004.jpg

You don't need to take out any bedding. I've noticed my mother rats stacking up the bedding around the babies, building a fortress around them all. The moms will pick them up and move them around as she sees fit...

Yep, they'll bury the babies to keep them warm when they're not sitting on them. No worries.

One note about setting up permanent groups--I've never tried adding a new male to an existing group of females with young, but I would urge caution with it. Things might go wrong...the male might kill babies, or the females might kill him.

I definitely recommend AGAINST swapping out females in existing groups. If you have to break up a group and create a new one, then don't put any of them with another animal that they already know. They will gang up on and often kill the newcomer.

A group of 2 females with a male will very often kill any new female you introduce. It's best to put them all with new animals--they are generally fine if you do that way.

:(:(:( by day four all are died!!! so

Should I let the mom and dad breed again??

Is this normal for a first litter??

Was there something I can learn for next time??

9 put.of 13 of.my.first litter died. It happens sadly.. remember.not all.mothers are.good. just keep at it" if you have to get another female. You'll get IR down and have a.colony soon enough!

the moms are poping now 2 litter in 2 weeks and should have more in another 2 weeks :):):banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:


http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSC_0013.jpg

certain bucks will kill a litter if its not theirs but usually the dad wont eat his own young unless there is a shortage on food or water they will thin out to make sure they themselves get enough to eat and drink as for pregnant the top one looks like she might be the second is in heat right now and the third she not either you can tell if a rat is in heat very very easily its weird and some people may find it gross but if you really want to guarentee a litter every time you put that male in that cage i would suggest it its how i do it because if she is in heat you only have to leave him in there for 2-3 days and his job will be done but if not and she not in heat you are just waisting him and his special little soldiers cause he will hump her even if she not in heat so what you do is everyday when you feed and water the females make it a habit to grab them nicely by the tail and look at there crotch area all you have to do is look if they are starting to open up they are in heat if not they not but that secong one by what i can tell she looks open a bit you can tell the difference between open and closed on them trust me when they closed they are closed it just looks like a tiny paper cut but when they open it looks like a wider deeper cut hope this help if you have anymore rat questions let me know i have been nreeding for 5-6 years:)