Animal Planet..

I've been watching a lot of this channel recently. (Mostly Because of Planet Earth and The Crocodile Hunter.) But it's all to often now that shows bashing large constrictors and hots are coming on. Fatal attractions is doing it a lot on the aspect of Hots, and is making it look like were "animal hoarding freaks" for loving reptiles... every show you can tell the families (especially those that have had a death) love there family members and are trying to make them look good, but nearly everything is taken out.of.context And in turn makes it look bad to own exotics. Even at the end It says, "still wondering why people get exotic pets? Explore the psychology And hear from the owners themselves" this makea my blood boil.... I personally believe Animal Planet is one of the reasons so many people fear exotics to any degree... I don't let anything from this channel degrading be played while I'm home.. it has my mom believing my little BP could strangle her to death.. my fiancée is starting to come around after I made her watch multiple specials and actually pay attention to all the lies they spew forth. Last night in particular... watching the "Man-Eating Super Snake" she we actually yelling at the TV after hearing nothing but "it's invading"

I know we have ALOT of mixed reviews. And it appears the Borneo Bateater is starting to take hits as the "next big snake" so lets hear some info from everyone. Do you hate animal planet? Do you like it? Do you agree about what it says about our pets?

On a side note... is it right to ban our snakes because of the "problem" in the glades? (Try to keep this to conversation and not a name throwing rant)

I don't want anyone to go.off and say "burms are going to be ruling the world!" Most Burmese in Flordia were killed off by the Cold snap, which alone proves thy can't live in most states in the US. And to them reproducing, a lot of Baby Burmese are eaten by other predators, so in a way the Burmese helps the food chain. But at the same time, the larger ones still do harm. Its like all the invasive bees and fire ants..

Now you can agree with me, or disgaree, add some info if you please. But lets.keep this conversation to just that and not go overboard. :)

There are multiple things that you can add to on this. And it could be a very healthy conversation, so everyone. Opinion times?

I do want to put it out there that I think it's dumb dumb dumb to own a poisonous animal. I'd never own one, and I think it's dumb for other people to own them, i just don't see a point. But Do I want to stop you from owning one? NO! :D

I don't think it should be anyone's problem what type of animals I KEEP IF I KEEP THEM UNDER CONTROL and they're not harming anyone, and they are healthy an well cared for.

That is all. :)

I don't have TV but from what I've seen I HATE Animal Planet. And Discovery. And the History Channel. And all other media sources that get so wrapped up in publicizing fear that they forget the original goal is to educate and inform.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I do want to put it out there that I think it's dumb dumb dumb to own a poisonous animal. I'd never own one, and I think it's dumb for other people to own them, i just don't see a point. But Do I want to stop you from owning one? NO! :D

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I think this is a good point. (Although snakes aren't poisonous, they're venomous.) You aren't going to find me with a venomous snake in my house, but as long as keeping any animal doesn't put anyone besides the owner at risk (that includes the animal itself; for example, I do happen to strongly disagree with big cats being kept as pets) I have no argument.

I felt like poisonous was wrong, shows how much I know about keeping 'poisonous' snakes. :rofl:

What the hell could be worse than an alligator in the everglades? Who F-ing cares if snakes move in. People need to chill out about that- catch the damn things and sell them back to us snake-lovers.
Snake lives, They make money, It's not in their precious everglades, and we get a new pet

WIN.WIN.WIN.WIN.

I agree with you, much of what they put on the channel is complete garbage. They always have the aspca animal rescue show on during the day but they rescue dogs/cats/farm animals 99% of the time. That means either A: Herp owners are really responsible so our animals dont need rescuing or B: Theyre biased towards non-herps or C: a combo of both.
Im pretty sure its a combo of both but I like to think its A.
On a side note I was thinking if the cold snap killed most of the burms in FL then does that mean that the ones that survived are going to continue breeding and produce a generation of burms more tolerant to the cold with the ability to survive at lower temps? Or were the burms that survived sorta just lucky?

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Originally Posted by FalconPunch

What the hell could be worse than an alligator in the everglades? Who F-ing cares if snakes move in. People need to chill out about that- catch the damn things and sell them back to us snake-lovers.
Snake lives, They make money, It's not in their precious everglades, and we get a new pet

WIN.WIN.WIN.WIN.

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While I obviously adore snakes, the burm problem in the everglades is not to be made light of. The issue is that that particular ecosystem is not designed to handle another apex predator. The alligators belong there, and the snakes are killing them or competing with them for food. No, it is not the snake's fault that they are there, but it is not a "no big deal" situation.

I think it is important to remember than just because we love and adore a certain animal does not mean it belongs everywhere. The burms DO NOT belong in the everglades, and sadly, they must be removed, usually by deadly force. The bad guy in this situation is not the snakes, but the people who put them there, the snake collectors who are not part of this club of caring hobbyist dedicated to the well being of our animals, but impulse buyers of exotics, people who see a little snake in the pet store window. failing to realize or accept that it will someday be 10, 12, 15 feet long, and who release it when they no longer want to deal with it. It is now a 20 foot invasive species, a nuisance animal because of the carelessness and selfishness of man. All we can do is not be those people, and stand by the responsible burm owners who love their snakes and care for them safely.

I apologize for the late reply And I have multiple replies to reply to. I will do it tonight after work though. Christmas has made my life a few bad words at work. @_@

I'm not really a fan of animal planet... mostly because of the lack of herp-friendly shows. They make it seem like ALL herps are "evil dangerous creatures". I've yet to see them say anything nice about these creatures.

I understand the "Hots =/= pets", but what about those who don't really keep them as pets, but rather milk them for anti-venom? They attack these people as well-- will they not stop until we're up a creek without a paddle because we no longer have people milking the venom from snakes to make anti-venom? I kinda feel like thats EXACTLY whats going to happen. I guess it IS a thankless job. "Hey, I know you keep hots so you can milk venom from them, but we're going to attack you for keeping exotics... and saving lives of people who get bitten by snakes."

Good going, Animal Planet. Thats the smart thing to do!

As far as should we all be punished for the situation in Florida... No, I sincerely believe that only affects Florida. Its sad, I hate it, but lets face it... these TROPICAL snakes would not survive in most of the US-- hell, I was born and raised in Arkansas... it DOES get cold as hell there in the winter. Like, to the point that if you have dogs that are usually outside, you have to make sure they have fresh hay to sleep in OR bring them into the house-- they won't survive otherwise. And they certainly wouldn't last long up north... I'm barely managing that right now. It gets too cold INSIDE my home at night... I have to put a heater in the room with my snakes to make sure they stay warm enough.

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Originally Posted by Tarawr88

I'm not really a fan of animal planet... mostly because of the lack of herp-friendly shows. They make it seem like ALL herps are "evil dangerous creatures". I've yet to see them say anything nice about these creatures.

I understand the "Hots =/= pets", but what about those who don't really keep them as pets, but rather milk them for anti-venom? They attack these people as well-- will they not stop until we're up a creek without a paddle because we no longer have people milking the venom from snakes to make anti-venom? I kinda feel like thats EXACTLY whats going to happen. I guess it IS a thankless job. "Hey, I know you keep hots so you can milk venom from them, but we're going to attack you for keeping exotics... and saving lives of people who get bitten by snakes."

Good going, Animal Planet. Thats the smart thing to do!

As far as should we all be punished for the situation in Florida... No, I sincerely believe that only affects Florida. Its sad, I hate it, but lets face it... these TROPICAL snakes would not survive in most of the US-- hell, I was born and raised in Arkansas... it DOES get cold as hell there in the winter. Like, to the point that if you have dogs that are usually outside, you have to make sure they have fresh hay to sleep in OR bring them into the house-- they won't survive otherwise. And they certainly wouldn't last long up north... I'm barely managing that right now. It gets too cold INSIDE my home at night... I have to put a heater in the room with my snakes to make sure they stay warm enough.

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ANY EXPERIENCED hot keeper will be the FIRST person to tell you that they do not consider hots to be pets. They are specimen, and are not taken lightly. (There are of course very ignorant, often stupid people who are the ubiquitous exception to this rule).

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I do want to put it out there that I think it's dumb dumb dumb to own a poisonous animal. I'd never own one, and I think it's dumb for other people to own them, i just don't see a point. But Do I want to stop you from owning one? NO! :D

I don't think it should be anyone's problem what type of animals I KEEP IF I KEEP THEM UNDER CONTROL and they're not harming anyone, and they are healthy an well cared for.

That is all. :)

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I agree. I REALLY want a banded rock rattlesnake, but I now.my limits, and with children going to be in.my house, I'd just never want to chance it. The thing though, is.. I WILL NEVER say people.who keep hots and have all there bite protocols And escape protocols AND there set rules, I see no problem having them as "pets"

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Originally Posted by Crazy4Herps

I think this is a good point. (Although snakes aren't poisonous, they're venomous.) You aren't going to find me with a venomous snake in my house, but as long as keeping any animal doesn't put anyone besides the owner at risk (that includes the animal itself; for example, I do happen to strongly disagree with big cats being kept as pets) I have no argument.

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Again...I agree, I see big cats as one of the most deadly animals you can own. I mean, I get attacked EVERY day by my cats, I've only been bit once by my Burmese And I gad rat blood ob me. I just see those kind of exotics as... "to dangerous for me" but I would never go up to a big cat keeper who houses there animals.with as much love as we do our snakes And tell them "get rid of your cats" I believe we all have to the right to own animals as long as we take care of them correctly.

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Originally Posted by FalconPunch

What the hell could be worse than an alligator in the everglades? Who F-ing cares if snakes move in. People need to chill out about that- catch the damn things and sell them back to us snake-lovers.
Snake lives, They make money, It's not in their precious everglades, and we get a new pet

WIN.WIN.WIN.WIN.

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I think the Burmese pythons are DRASTICALLY over dramatized to what they really are. I will reply more to this in my next reply.. but personally I see no reason as to why we should suffer from laws from a few owners releasing there pets, and other escaping during hurricanes.
Side note... I think our "friends" at PETA are somewhat responsible for releases as well..

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I agree with you, much of what they put on the channel is complete garbage. They always have the aspca animal rescue show on during the day but they rescue dogs/cats/farm animals 99% of the time. That means either A: Herp owners are really responsible so our animals dont need rescuing or B: Theyre biased towards non-herps or C: a combo of both.
Im pretty sure its a combo of both but I like to think its A.
On a side note I was thinking if the cold snap killed most of the burms in FL then does that mean that the ones that survived are going to continue breeding and produce a generation of burms more tolerant to the cold with the ability to survive at lower temps? Or were the burms that survived sorta just lucky?

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The Burmese that survived were lucky. Most of then were in small caverns ungrounded that you could stand up in. For animals that are tropical And have to thermo regulate to survive be able to suddenly undergo a evolution that would take YEARS to happen.. no, I just can't see it. But I'm not a scientists. :p

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Originally Posted by Emily Hubbard

While I obviously adore snakes, the burm problem in the everglades is not to be made light of. The issue is that that particular ecosystem is not designed to handle another apex predator. The alligators belong there, and the snakes are killing them or competing with them for food. No, it is not the snake's fault that they are there, but it is not a "no big deal" situation.

I think it is important to remember than just because we love and adore a certain animal does not mean it belongs everywhere. The burms DO NOT belong in the everglades, and sadly, they must be removed, usually by deadly force. The bad guy in this situation is not the snakes, but the people who put them there, the snake collectors who are not part of this club of caring hobbyist dedicated to the well being of our animals, but impulse buyers of exotics, people who see a little snake in the pet store window. failing to realize or accept that it will someday be 10, 12, 15 feet long, and who release it when they no longer want to deal with it. It is now a 20 foot invasive species, a nuisance animal because of the carelessness and selfishness of man. All we can do is not be those people, and stand by the responsible burm owners who love their snakes and care for them safely.

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I'm not saying this meanly. K? :p can't really tell through internet text.

Think about this. Do you see feral cats as pets? Think about mow.may thousands roam around in most cities unchecked. We have easily 1,000 here in my town. What gets done about these animals? The same can be said for.dingos in Australia. Are they invasive? Yeah, do we care? Not really they kill multiple different animals they attack people as well. My point to this? We pick and choose what to complain about..

Now to the burms.. in the Everglades I HIGHLY doubt there are 100,000.. even the python hunters said it was no where near that high. From this as well, it is seen most Burmese pythons that produce babies help strengthen the ecosystem with food. To this, adult Burmese eat no where near what "the experts" say they do. Another note for this, adult burms are eaten by alligators.

Trust me, I'm not trying to defend the burms to my death, I just don't believe it's right that people say "kill them all" isn't this animal cruelty? I can't kill a feral cat can I?

It's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.... either way it's a loose loose situation...

I'm sorry if I sounded like a walking contradiction, I just can't stand all the press the burms have gotten...

I really hope.you see my point and opinion to this, I REALLY don't want a good thread to go south.

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Originally Posted by zeion97

Again...I agree, I see big cats as one of the most deadly animals you can own. I mean, I get attacked EVERY day by my cats, I've only been bit once by my Burmese And I gad rat blood ob me. I just see those kind of exotics as... "to dangerous for me" but I would never go up to a big cat keeper who houses there animals.with as much love as we do our snakes And tell them "get rid of your cats" I believe we all have to the right to own animals as long as we take care of them correctly.

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I disagree. There is a huge difference between correctly caring for a big cat and correctly caring for a snake. The difference is that big cats cannot thrive in a house setting. Many rescue organizations and zoos have done wonderfully at allowing big cats to thrive in captivity. The difference here is that rescue organizations and zoos (at least the good ones) do not view big cats as pets, and they (again, the good ones) minimize human contact with the cats.

The truth is, while the love and care we put into housing and maintaining our snakes may be sufficient for snakes, big cats require much, MUCH more. For one thing, snakes are inactive animals in the wild and can do quite well in appropriately-sized cages. Big cats (in my very firm opinion) should never be kept in a cage. If you examine the size of the territories they establish in the wild, that is simply not something an individual can provide. Not to mention the cruelty of capturing and importing tigers and the like.

"I believe we all have to the right to own animals as long as we take care of them correctly"
I agree with this. I just don't think it is possible to do with big cats.

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Originally Posted by Crazy4Herps

I disagree. There is a huge difference between correctly caring for a big cat and correctly caring for a snake. The difference is that big cats cannot thrive in a house setting. Many rescue organizations and zoos have done wonderfully at allowing big cats to thrive in captivity. The difference here is that rescue organizations and zoos (at least the good ones) do not view big cats as pets, and they (again, the good ones) minimize human contact with the cats.

The truth is, while the love and care we put into housing and maintaining our snakes may be sufficient for snakes, big cats require much, MUCH more. For one thing, snakes are inactive animals in the wild and can do quite well in appropriately-sized cages. Big cats (in my very firm opinion) should never be kept in a cage. If you examine the size of the territories they establish in the wild, that is simply not something an individual can provide. Not to mention the cruelty of capturing and importing tigers and the like.

"I believe we all have to the right to own animals as long as we take care of them correctly"
I agree with this. I just don't think it is possible to do with big cats.

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You're completely correct, I truthfully don't think we should be allowed to have big cats. I just can't bring myself to say to someone who cares for them "sorry you can't own it" it's like saying we can own RTB's but not Burms. We all have our experience with animals and they're are probably a few people on here that own a big cat, but I just don't see why we Pick and choose. Trust me, I agree with you. I.just don't believe it's right for us to say were different from big cat owners. We all are in the same groups weather we own herps or cats, we love our animals. And every day we fight for them. Even though I disagree with the owning of them I can't bring myself to say it's wrong, this is to the point were personal opinion comes in. And even if I disagree with them being "pets" I know there are people who disagree that my snakes are "pets"

Sorry if my wording seems confusing.

I used to watch Animal Planet religiously when I was younger. Over the past few years, the channel has taken a dive and gone into an area of "entertainment" I do not care to watch. For the sake of my blood pressure and the well being of my marriage, I do not watch Animal Planet any more. I get very heated and angry when I watch their shows and my husband is wall I bounce all that off on and that's not fair to him. :P

What we need is more exotics-friendly shows, whether they be on cable or Youtube. The average person that doesn't keep reptiles doesn't understand that the majority of people who keep exotics are not like the people they see on t.v because the only people they are exposed to, are the ones they see on t.v. We need more media out there showing responsible owners.

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Originally Posted by zeion97

You're completely correct, I truthfully don't think we should be allowed to have big cats. I just can't bring myself to say to someone who cares for them "sorry you can't own it" it's like saying we can own RTB's but not Burms. We all have our experience with animals and they're are probably a few people on here that own a big cat, but I just don't see why we Pick and choose. Trust me, I agree with you. I.just don't believe it's right for us to say were different from big cat owners. We all are in the same groups weather we own herps or cats, we love our animals. And every day we fight for them. Even though I disagree with the owning of them I can't bring myself to say it's wrong, this is to the point were personal opinion comes in. And even if I disagree with them being "pets" I know there are people who disagree that my snakes are "pets"

Sorry if my wording seems confusing.

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:gj: I'm totally with you on that.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I used to watch Animal Planet religiously when I was younger. Over the past few years, the channel has taken a dive and gone into an area of "entertainment" I do not care to watch. For the sake of my blood pressure and the well being of my marriage, I do not watch Animal Planet any more. I get very heated and angry when I watch their shows and my husband is wall I bounce all that off on and that's not fair to him. :P

What we need is more exotics-friendly shows, whether they be on cable or Youtube. The average person that doesn't keep reptiles doesn't understand that the majority of people who keep exotics are not like the people they see on t.v because the only people they are exposed to, are the ones they see on t.v. We need more media out there showing responsible owners.

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I really wish there were more exotic friendly shows. Whenever I say "I own a 6 foot Burmese python" I get odd stares And on multiple occasions have had people say I need to kill it. One time I told someone "ill do that when you go home And kill your cat" people have no idea about exotics and just go off all the dramatized stories they hear on the news or read online. I really wish there were shows that showed the good aides of exotics and not the bad. I try my best to educate people ob the truth, but the truth is, we can't teach people who are unwilling to learn.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I do want to put it out there that I think it's dumb dumb dumb to own a poisonous animal. I'd never own one, and I think it's dumb for other people to own them, i just don't see a point. But Do I want to stop you from owning one? NO! :D

I don't think it should be anyone's problem what type of animals I KEEP IF I KEEP THEM UNDER CONTROL and they're not harming anyone, and they are healthy an well cared for.

That is all. :)

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Firstly, please get your terminology correct. Secondly, What is the point in owning any reptile, *venomous* or not?

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Originally Posted by zeion97

On a side note... is it right to ban our snakes because of the "problem" in the glades? (Try to keep this to conversation and not a name throwing rant)?

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You have to ask this question? No. The rule will do nothing pragmatic to address Burmese pythons on the ground, with breeding populations thus far confined to only 3 counties in the southern tip of Florida. Besides the USGS report, which as been thoroughly discredited as "unscientific" and "unsuitable for the basis of legislative or regulatory policy" by an independent panel of 11 herpetologists and other well respected scientists, and considering that this federal rulemaking violates the Information Quality Procedures Act and 3 Obama executive orders, what other credible science exists to support it. Burmese pythons in the Everglades are a state of Florida issue thus far confined only to 3 counties in the southernmost tip of Florida. Federal regulations are not needed for what is a localized problem. Period. The state of Florida has already addressed this issue by effectively outlawing Reptiles of Concern (ROC’s). By comparison, both feral cats, and swine are both far more widespread and ecologically destructive “invasive” species worldwide. Even invasive species of plants in Florida such as Brazilian pepper have been proven to have a far more profound impact on the entire ecosystem in which it invades.The apparent fact that H$US (The Humane Society of the United states) favors failed feral cat controls, ignores the issue of rattlesnake roundups and other wildlife abuses for TV and entertainment (i.e. Kentucky Turtleman on Animal planet), and discriminates against the captive bred reptile trade is the very epitome of the misleading and hypocritical nature of the sham of an organization.

There have now been several published papers and research that thoroughly debunk claims made that pythons are capable of inhabiting the southern third of the continental U.S. Do you need me to bring up the links to these studies? Burmese pythons are tropical S.E Asian species, not temperate zone animals. 9 out of 10 pythons died in a S. FL study by Dorcas et all, while all pythons in an Aiken SC study died despite being provided heated artificial refugia (which was a study essentially cheating in the python's favor and they STILL all died). If the USGS report, which the rulemaking is based entirely upon held true, why haven't boa constrictors (which have occurred naturally in Mexico for millions of years) migrated north into the S. United States? Even 95% of the African rock pythons are suspected to have already been extirpated by the weather according to Scott Hardin and FWC exotic species coordinators. Sorry, we won't be seeing any "Man eating super snakes" invading the U.S.A. anytime in the forseeable future.Where is the evidence to support HSUS' claim it makes that pythons are "putting people in danger"? Where is the national epidemic of escaped pythons and other reptiles chasing and terrorizing innocent members of the public? There simply is none, and the fatality rates of these snakes held in captivity over the last 20 years are significantly less than the number killed or maimed by pet dogs and many other domestic animals in the United States one year based on all historical and statistical accounts. Especially when all accounts of Florida FWC and other on the ground officials are stating the contrary?"Scott Hardin, exotic species coordinator for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, said most Everglades pythons are too small to kill people and exist in areas where the primary hazard to people remains the alligator.""Federal environmental assessments have found little evidence of human deaths from Burmese pythons in their native southern Asia. There are fewer pythons than there were three years ago" Hardin says...

Nowadays Animal Planet and it's programming choices have become hot button topics on the interwebs.

Why is it so surprising that Animal Planet chooses to show the sordid and sensationalist side of herpetoculture? Animal Planet makes it's living on advertising and advertisers look for ratings. While the members of BP-Net may want to see documentaries about the respective lives of Roger Conant and Karl Schmidt, the general public wants titillation. They want drama, they want animals eating other animals, animals killing people. They want to be entertained, not educated.

The problem is that our hobby has always had a group of a$$-hats that do some truly stupid things. Whether it's 10 Burmese pythons in the Everglades or 10 million, the fact that they - along with countless other non-native reptile species - reside there should be an embarrassment to everyone who claims they want more intelligent discourse regarding our hobby.

Here where I live in the Bay Area, some douche bag let loose a 6' BCI and a small burmese python in the Contra Costa Canal during the middle of a cold streak. A good samaritan took them both to the Lindsay Wildlife Museum where they both eventually died (overnight temps were in the 20s here).

No, they didn't populate the Bay Area and begin eating kids, but it was another example of this hobby attracting it's fair share of idiots who buy without research and then make matters worse by releasing the animals into the wild.

As long as there are stupid people in this hobby, there will exist an audience for their antics. Whether it's the dimwit who let free the first rock python in the Everglades or the moron who hoarded venomous snakes without being able to exercise the proper protocols and died as a result, the public is very willing to be entertained by our collective boobery.

Next time I see some expert debating exactly how many pythons exist in the Everglades I'm going to put my face through a window. Has anyone here ever taken a look at the comprehensive list of invasive species of reptile now inhabiting the Everglades? It's disgusting and it's beyond defending, so people need to stop doing just that.

More importantly, arguing about the scope of the problem is a waste of time. The problem exists and no amount of maximizing or minimizing it's scope is going to change that.

Think of Animal Planet as an unloaded gun. Think of our collective stupid deeds as the ammunition. Without our stupid deeds, the only thing that gun is good for is a paper weight.

Educate people before they buy. Educate people after they buy. Call out idiotic behavior for what it is and do your part in making herpetoculture much less newsworthy.

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Originally Posted by ER12

You have to ask this question? No. The rule will do nothing pragmatic to address Burmese pythons on the ground, with breeding populations thus far confined to only 3 counties in the southern tip of Florida. Besides the USGS report, which as been thoroughly discredited as "unscientific" and "unsuitable for the basis of legislative or regulatory policy" by an independent panel of 11 herpetologists and other well respected scientists, and considering that this federal rulemaking violates the Information Quality Procedures Act and 3 Obama executive orders, what other credible science exists to support it. Burmese pythons in the Everglades are a state of Florida issue thus far confined only to 3 counties in the southernmost tip of Florida. Federal regulations are not needed for what is a localized problem. Period. The state of Florida has already addressed this issue by effectively outlawing Reptiles of Concern (ROC’s). By comparison, both feral cats, and swine are both far more widespread and ecologically destructive “invasive” species worldwide. Even invasive species of plants in Florida such as Brazilian pepper have been proven to have a far more profound impact on the entire ecosystem in which it invades.The apparent fact that H$US (The Humane Society of the United states) favors failed feral cat controls, ignores the issue of rattlesnake roundups and other wildlife abuses for TV and entertainment (i.e. Kentucky Turtleman on Animal planet), and discriminates against the captive bred reptile trade is the very epitome of the misleading and hypocritical nature of the sham of an organization.

There have now been several published papers and research that thoroughly debunk claims made that pythons are capable of inhabiting the southern third of the continental U.S. Do you need me to bring up the links to these studies? Burmese pythons are tropical S.E Asian species, not temperate zone animals. 9 out of 10 pythons died in a S. FL study by Dorcas et all, while all pythons in an Aiken SC study died despite being provided heated artificial refugia (which was a study essentially cheating in the python's favor and they STILL all died). If the USGS report, which the rulemaking is based entirely upon held true, why haven't boa constrictors (which have occurred naturally in Mexico for millions of years) migrated north into the S. United States? Even 95% of the African rock pythons are suspected to have already been extirpated by the weather according to Scott Hardin and FWC exotic species coordinators. Sorry, we won't be seeing any "Man eating super snakes" invading the U.S.A. anytime in the forseeable future.Where is the evidence to support HSUS' claim it makes that pythons are "putting people in danger"? Where is the national epidemic of escaped pythons and other reptiles chasing and terrorizing innocent members of the public? There simply is none, and the fatality rates of these snakes held in captivity over the last 20 years are significantly less than the number killed or maimed by pet dogs and many other domestic animals in the United States one year based on all historical and statistical accounts. Especially when all accounts of Florida FWC and other on the ground officials are stating the contrary?"Scott Hardin, exotic species coordinator for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, said most Everglades pythons are too small to kill people and exist in areas where the primary hazard to people remains the alligator.""Federal environmental assessments have found little evidence of human deaths from Burmese pythons in their native southern Asia. There are fewer pythons than there were three years ago" Hardin says...

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Very nice.. I constantly debate this, and TBH I only put this in here because I assumed someone would start a rant after seeing how the last thread I viewed about them went. The Reptile community seems two sided on this either by saying what you did, or saying they don't belong there. I'll say what I always say though..

It is heavily over dramatized and as Skip said, there will always be those people that buy on a dime, and even if they didn't put all the snakes there, they helped and fueled a fire. Like i said, we're stuck between a rock and a hard spot. Thank you for your addition btw!

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Nowadays Animal Planet and it's programming choices have become hot button topics on the interwebs.

Why is it so surprising that Animal Planet chooses to show the sordid and sensationalist side of herpetoculture? Animal Planet makes it's living on advertising and advertisers look for ratings. While the members of BP-Net may want to see documentaries about the respective lives of Roger Conant and Karl Schmidt, the general public wants titillation. They want drama, they want animals eating other animals, animals killing people. They want to be entertained, not educated.

The problem is that our hobby has always had a group of a$$-hats that do some truly stupid things. Whether it's 10 Burmese pythons in the Everglades or 10 million, the fact that they - along with countless other non-native reptile species - reside there should be an embarrassment to everyone who claims they want more intelligent discourse regarding our hobby.

Here where I live in the Bay Area, some douche bag let loose a 6' BCI and a small burmese python in the Contra Costa Canal during the middle of a cold streak. A good samaritan took them both to the Lindsay Wildlife Museum where they both eventually died (overnight temps were in the 20s here).

No, they didn't populate the Bay Area and begin eating kids, but it was another example of this hobby attracting it's fair share of idiots who buy without research and then make matters worse by releasing the animals into the wild.

As long as there are stupid people in this hobby, there will exist an audience for their antics. Whether it's the dimwit who let free the first rock python in the Everglades or the moron who hoarded venomous snakes without being able to exercise the proper protocols and died as a result, the public is very willing to be entertained by our collective boobery.

Next time I see some expert debating exactly how many pythons exist in the Everglades I'm going to put my face through a window. Has anyone here ever taken a look at the comprehensive list of invasive species of reptile now inhabiting the Everglades? It's disgusting and it's beyond defending, so people need to stop doing just that.

More importantly, arguing about the scope of the problem is a waste of time. The problem exists and no amount of maximizing or minimizing it's scope is going to change that.

Think of Animal Planet as an unloaded gun. Think of our collective stupid deeds as the ammunition. Without our stupid deeds, the only thing that gun is good for is a paper weight.

Educate people before they buy. Educate people after they buy. Call out idiotic behavior for what it is and do your part in making herpetoculture much less newsworthy.

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Nicely put as usual Skip. Sad to hear about those poor snakes though.....just more reptiles that suffered and paid the price for bad owners.. I do my best to educate everyone where I live though, not just on care, but on weather they want to buy the animals or not. Just a few days ago I stopped someone from buying a Yellow Anaconda just because they thought it was pretty. -_-; I'm still learning myself, and I've referred many people to the forums and hopefully some listened. But in the end we all have to do our part and notice even if we keep different animals, we're all in the same boat.

And tbh, I truly think we won't ever be able to "reclaim" the glades, not just from the burms but the other what, 350-400 other invasive species? Maybe one day Bigfoots will call it home? ;)

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Originally Posted by Crazy4Herps

Not to mention the cruelty of capturing and importing tigers and the like.

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I just want to throw it out there that the tigers, lions, bears, and other large exotic mammals are not captured and imported. They are bred right here in America in mass numbers and sold to anyone who flashes the money.
I'm not saying that it is right to keep big cats as pets, but I do have to agree that why should big cat keepers be told they can't have them, but reptile keepers can have their animals? I have no issues with people keeping any exotics as long as they are properly versed in the care of those animals. I know that many zoos house large cats in *better* conditions than we did 50 years ago, but zoos are still not the greatest places in the world, and I think that 9/10 exotics will do better in private hands than in zoos, when provided with the proper care. For instance, our local zoo has four tigers, only two are put on display- in the day time- and they come in at night. This leaves two locked up in roughly 10x10 cages all day and night. Not to mention that these nocturnal animals are brought off exhibit at night when they are active, and put into the tiny 10x10 stalls. It happens with every zoo animal- but in private hands the animals are most likely left in their exhibit space 24/7 so they can be active when they choose to. I know that my reptiles receive better care than those in the zoos, and I believe that most exotic mammal keepers probably take better care of their animals than the zoos do too. This is not to say that I am against zoos, because I'm not. I love them and volunteer at them all the time, but that has nothing to do with the husbandry that takes place.

As for Animal Planet.. I can say that I am not a big fan anymore. I too was watching that "man eating super snake" a few months back and began yelling at the tv when they showed a ball lurking up to children and talking about burms hunting down kids. I will however, agree that burms are a major threat to the ecosystem in Florida, simply because they are taking over as the apex predator (or were). Of course, Florida is filled with non-native exotics since they were at one time, and sadly still are, the place where most reptiles are imported into. I think that right now the burms and tegus are just getting all the attention because they are new and were thriving before the cold snap. In a few years I am sure it will be something else... I don't think that bans should be enacted ANYWHERE for reptiles, because banning them is not going to make the ones that are already existing in the wild go away.

I actually agree. The impression we've been given is that keepers of large exotic mammals ALWAYS do it wrong...and that simply isn't true. I've seen the enclosures at even the best zoos, and many private keepers do it better. (It's true of the reptiles, as well--the enclosures look snazzy, but aren't necessarily ideal for the species in them, and they mix multiple species in ways that sometimes looks just plain inexplicable. They have a poor GTP surrounded by about a dozen large tree frogs at Henry Doorly here. That has to be stressful, and the enclosure's been that way for many months now).
I know that at least one big cat at Henry Doorly is chewing its own tail off.

I also support zoos, but the claims that only they know how to handle these animals is WAY off...in many cases, they don't do a proper job of it, much less a better job.

Lions and tigers and bears...yeah, they're all dangerous animals, and it's hazardous to work with them, but not everyone who has them is neglectful, or a nutjob that takes risks.

The same is true of people who keep Retics, Burms, and Green Anacondas....all dangerous animals. Or, crocodilians, crocodile and water monitors, or venomous.

I don't watch Animal Planet anymore. All they do is give animal rights extremists like HSUS, ASPCA, and Sea Shepheard a place to push their agendas...