New Pewter

Well, I got my pewter from BHB today. She was packaged great and box was still at about 80 degrees when I opened it. The problem with her is that she has a kink in her tail. I was never told of this (I honestly didn't think it was something I needed to ask) and it wasn't obvious in any of the pictures they sent me when I requested more, but there is no denying that she has a kink. I sent Lori an e-mail tell her I was disappointed they didn't tell me but I don't think I want to send her back for a refund even if they let me. I won't be able to breed her, but she's still pretty. She'll probably be the only BP I keep as strictly a pet.

I was really hoping I would be a step closer to sterlings instead of having to wait until my cinny is ready to breed and then raising up one of her daughters. I really am extremely disappointed right now. :(

Anyways, here are some pictures. The last one shows how bad her kink is. :(

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_3008.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_3010.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_3011.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_3015.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_3018.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_3021.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_3022.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_3025.jpg

I am so glad that I decided not to buy from them. That is messed up.

Wow that sucks! I know you are probably attached to her already but I would send her back for a healthy hatchling. That is not right to do someone like that.

If you paid the full amount for a female pewter, you should get a Grade A female pewter.

Wow!! So Sry... Thats strike three for bhb. Theres no defending that.

I'm sure Brian will make it right, I've personally never heard anything bad about them. And have only known them for quality

I'm really sorry to hear about the tail kink.:( She's a beautiful little girl, but that's allot of money to pay for just a pet. Not to mention the set back to your breeding plans. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Mark

I may send her back, but I will still most likely be out the shipping. Looking back at the addition photos I requested from them before buying her you can kind of see the kink in this one, but I honestly wasn't looking for one. I was just taking a quick look at her pattern to make sure she was what I was looking for. I really assumed something like this would be something you would tell to people.

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...Pewter/pew.jpg

It should have been something they told you about from the get go. There is no way to deny having known about it. It's too obvious! That was really horrible of them, and they probably thought that once you got her you wouldn't want to send her back! I'm really sorry for both you and her. But she's beautiful even with her kink. :)

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I may send her back, but I will still most likely be out the shipping. Looking back at the addition photos I requested from them before buying her you can kind of see the kink in this one, but I honestly wasn't looking for one. I was just taking a quick look at her pattern to make sure she was what I was looking for. I really assumed something like this would be something you would tell to people.

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...Pewter/pew.jpg

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Don't feel bad about missing it. Knowing that she has a kink, I can see it in the pic, but truthfully, if I didn't already know it was there, I would have missed it. The bark makes it hard to spot.

Mark

Despite the kink, she sure is a beautiful little girl!

if you paid full price then i would tell them to send you another one. thats b.s. no one should buy a kinked snake at full price. they should have disclosed that fact to you. now if you bought her for 200 bucks then you have questioned why she was so cheap.
adam jeffery

do kinks bring any health problem? can they straighten out with time?

it's still a very nice looking snake

depends on how bad the kink is. This one looks as it will be able to live its life out as a pet. Still a beautiful animal non the less. sorry to hear about your situation.

That's unbelievable that they wouldn't tell a customer about a kink like that, especially when somebody is dropping a half a grand or more on the animal. but even if it was a normal, that information should be shared. I know you wanted to breed her and unfortunately won't be able to. I feel really bad for you Kinra. If you want, I can give you your boa back because i know you got rid of him because you had to make room for the pewter..and if I produce more than one pewter next year, which i should because i'm going to breed my cinny to multiple pastels, you can have one for free.

She is amazing and exactly what I was looking for in a Pewter (minus the kink obviously). I'm still waiting to hear back from the e-mail I sent. This is the second time I bought from BHB and I wasn't 100% satisfied with my first purchase either, but it was nothing as bad as this. I've only ever corresponded with Lori never with Brian.

I paid $450 + shipping for her so the price really didn't send up any red flags, but I guess it should have. :(

That picture is the only one they sent me where you can even see that portion of her body and it's not the one from their web site either. I'm going to wait until I hear back from them before I make any decisions. I also didn't intend for this to be a feedback thread about BHB, but I was really just frustrated.

Oh no, Kinra! I am so sorry to see that this happened to you. Could not have happened to a nicer person. They should have disclosed that information before you purchased the snake. Any defect or flaw should be made clear to the buyer. It isn't like they can claim that they didn't see the kink, its a very large kink!

If you really want to keep her as a pet, I would tell them you want a considerable amount of your money back. The pet price for a snake should not be the same as a breeding price. She cannot be bred, you should not have to pay what a breedable female costs! If they don't agree then you really should send her back, hard as it will be, you can't allow them to get away with scamming you like that.

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Originally Posted by Reakt20

That's unbelievable that they wouldn't tell a customer about a kink like that, especially when somebody is dropping a half a grand or more on the animal. but even if it was a normal, that information should be shared. I know you wanted to breed her and unfortunately won't be able to. I feel really bad for you Kinra. If you want, I can give you your boa back because i know you got rid of him because you had to make room for the pewter..and if I produce more than one pewter next year, which i should because i'm going to breed my cinny to multiple pastels, you can have one for free.

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Thanks, it means a lot to me to know that I have good friends. I don't really want the boa back because he doesn't fit into any of my breeding plans and I'm very happy that he has a home with you. :)

I should produce some pewters next year (if my cinny will start eating for me again >_<) but maybe we can do a trade and both try for super pewters in the future. :P

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

Oh no, Kinra! I am so sorry to see that this happened to you. Could not have happened to a nicer person. They should have disclosed that information before you purchased the snake. Any defect or flaw should be made clear to the buyer. It isn't like they can claim that they didn't see the kink, its a very large kink!

If you really want to keep her as a pet, I would tell them you want a considerable amount of your money back. The pet price for a snake should not be the same as a breeding price. She cannot be bred, you should not have to pay what a breedable female costs! If they don't agree then you really should send her back, hard as it will be, you can't allow them to get away with scamming you like that.

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It's too funny that you should mention that because that is exactly what they said in the reply e-mail I just got. I sent them two of the pictures I took, one where you can see where the kink is and the last one I posted that shows just how bad the kink is.

I will keep updating this thread as I hear back from them. I also want to repeat that this isn't a feedback thread on BHB, mainly because I posted this right after I sent them an e-mail. They haven't had a chance to make it right yet and how they decide to make it right is what really matters. Mistakes happen and the bigger you the more you will make, how you handle them is what really says a lot about you. :)

[QUOTE=Kinra;1714157]I may send her back, but I will still most likely be out the shipping. Looking back at the addition photos I requested from them before buying her you can kind of see the kink in this one, but I honestly wasn't looking for one. I was just taking a quick look at her pattern to make sure she was what I was looking for. I really assumed something like this would be something you would tell to people. QUOTE]

why would you be out the shipping. they sold you an animal with a very a bad kink at full price without adviseing you of her condition. they should replace her, cover both the cost of shipping her back and shipping the replacement snake. or if they can't offer you a replacement your happy with they should offer you a full refund including the original shipping and return shipping cost's. it seems i like BHB less and less every time there name comes up.:(

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

why would you be out the shipping. they sold you an animal with a very a bad kink at full price without adviseing you of her condition. they should replace her, cover both the cost of shipping her back and shipping the replacement snake. or if they can't offer you a replacement your happy with they should offer you a full refund including the original shipping and return shipping cost's. it seems i like BHB less and less every time there name comes up.:(

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I guess I'm just used to seeing refund policies that don't include the cost of shipping so I assumed that was something they wouldn't refund. I know BHB has a lot of happy customers, but it's the unhappy ones that are the most vocal. I would take what you hear about them with a grain of salt. So far it seems like BHB is going to make this right and honestly that's all that matters to me.

Sorry to hear this happen to you. I would be asking for a full refund and take my business somewhere else.

they should send you a replacement and either let you keep the kinked one for free or steeply discounted. or refund you the majority of what you paid and allow you to keep her.
adam jeffery

That sux that you have to go through this, as was stated previously, it's only apparent in the pics if you are looking for it, not something that would be obvious unless there was a disclaimer of some sort, which would be the right way to have advertised this one. I hope you get it sorted out and you should not be put out any costs whatsoever to get it resolved, shame on them for not informing the customer of a serious issue!

Sorry this happened to you Kinra, I'm interested to see how everything works out.

Oh man that's not cool. That's a BAD kink. Personally if they don't make this right they'll go to my Do not buy from list. I would never sell a baby to anyone without disclosing everything about that animal. That's not something they can say they just didn't notice. That's a big big kink. So sorry you have to deal with this. I know what it's like to wait in something excitedly and then be dissapointed upon arrival. I hope they make this right for you. Unfortunately that female with the kink isnt even worth half of what you paid for her. I hope they fix this.
Good Luck!


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I guess I'm just used to seeing refund policies that don't include the cost of shipping so I assumed that was something they wouldn't refund. I know BHB has a lot of happy customers, but it's the unhappy ones that are the most vocal. I would take what you hear about them with a grain of salt. So far it seems like BHB is going to make this right and honestly that's all that matters to me.

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You may be right. In fact the simple fact that BHB is still in business probably means that they have more happy than unhappy customers. But when you hear over and over again people saying I got an animal from them that was crawling with mites, had a severe respiratory infection, had a bad spinal kink etc etc you can’t help but think there is something to it. You yourself said this is the second time you have bought from them and the second time there has been a problem. And yes the larger the breeder the more difficult of a job quality control. So what. Would you buy an animal at an expo without at least looking it over to make sure it didn’t have any obvious injury’s, R.I, mites etc; I wouldn’t. And if a breeder is so busy that they can’t even give the animal a quick visual health check before shipping it off to a paying customer, than I don’t have time for them either. I can’t remember the last time (if ever) someone said “NERD sent me a sick snake” and they sell lots of animals. It’s not to say it hasn’t happened but I don’t see people complaining about the other large breeders the way that they do about BHB. I’ve also never seen a video from any of the other big guys showing how they force giant constrictors to live in crappy little bins barely big enough to stuff them into. I really hope that everything works out for you with this deal, and in the future I hope you will take your business elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

You may be right. In fact the simple fact that BHB is still in business probably means that they have more happy than unhappy customers. But when you hear over and over again people saying I got an animal from them that was crawling with mites, had a severe respiratory infection, had a bad spinal kink etc etc you can’t help but think there is something to it. You yourself said this is the second time you have bought from them and the second time there has been a problem. And yes the larger the breeder the more difficult of a job quality control. So what. Would you buy an animal at an expo without at least looking it over to make sure it didn’t have any obvious injury’s, R.I, mites etc; I wouldn’t. And if a breeder is so busy that they can’t even give the animal a quick visual health check before shipping it off to a paying customer, than I don’t have time for them either. I can’t remember the last time (if ever) someone said “NERD sent me a sick snake” and they sell lots of animals. It’s not to say it hasn’t happened but I don’t see people complaining about the other large breeders the way that they do about BHB. I’ve also never seen a video from any of the other big guys showing how they force giant constrictors to live in crappy little bins barely big enough to stuff them into. I really hope that everything works out for you with this deal, and in the future I hope you will take your business elsewhere.

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I said last time that I wasn't going to buy from them again, but I decided to give them a chance. You make a great point though, I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about NERD or any of the other big guys but I've also never looked for it.

I don't believe that they missed this, it's extremely hard to miss. As long as they fix it I will count it like I do my first purchase from them. Okay, but not great. The kink is the first real issue I've experience first hand. Last time I bought from them I got 2 rat snakes and one of them was making noises. I was afraid he might have an RI and I asked Lori about it. I described the sound as popping/clicking noise and was told she had no idea what I was talking about and to keep her posted. He turned out to be find and I think the noise was stressed induced, but I think she could have been a little more helpful. So it wasn't a bad experience, it just wasn't great.

Honestly I prefer to buy from Garrick DeMeyer because he's more local to me and he's a great breeder, but it seems like he's only producing black pewters right now and I wanted a cinny pewter. Depending on how BHB decided to handle this I may not ever consider buying from them again. If they fix it I won't put them on my do not buy from list, but they don't be my first or even 5th choice.

So I just heard back from Lori. Instead of paraphrasing here is what she said:

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From: Lori Barczyk <bhbent@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: BHB Enterprises Inc. Purchase Order - 884
To: Rebecca Wyman <wyman.rebecca@gmail.com>


I can not believe that we did not catch that! I am so sorry. We have a few options that we can offer to remedy the situation. Brian looked at the pictures and does not believe that the kink will pose a problem when breeding. They are formed during incubation and are not genetic.
That being said if you want to keep her we are willing to give her to you at a %50 discount. We can either refund your money or you can use it as credit towards something else.
Or if you want to return her for a full refund we will be more than happy to do that as well.
Please let me know what you decide and again I apologize for that. We would never sell an animal like that to someone on purpose!


Thanks
Lori
BHB Enterprises

586-263-4686

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What would you do? I don't think she would be able to breed (and I'm not sure I would want to breed a snake with a kink), but do you think she would be able to produce viable clutches? Do you think the kink is genetic? I know super cinnies are known for having kinks so I find it believable that the kink could be genetic.

Thats sucks Kinra, personaly I would send her back for a full refund. I just wouldnt take the chance. I would also request that they pay for the shipping label if they havent offered it already.

Personally I think kinks are genetic AND egg-formed. I've never experienced it personally, but seen snakes that have produced multiple kinked babies (either in one clutch, or over multiple clutches) and ones that were just how the baby was positioned in the egg.

I agree with you - I don't think she could be bred, it doesn't look like she would be able to even pass a large poo without some discomfort - she may not be able to pass eggs period. I wouldn't breed her, just for the fact that it may kill her/be too painful to deal with.

I would return her, unless they would be willing to drop her price to the price of a normal - she may be a morph - but she should just be a pet. She is drop dead gorgeous, but the fact of the matter is that she has a defect (genetic or not) and cannot fulfill her intended purpose.

That is really not cool. I just can't understand how they could take the pictures, send her out to you and never once tell you about the kink?! Ugh, this makes me really mad.
Personally, after hearing their "resolution", I would send the snake back. I would make sure to write a nice email also stating that while the pewter is very nice, you're incredibly unhappy that they would never tell you about a kink...and not just a tiny kink, a good sized one! Ask for a full refund, including the original shipping cost. Then I would just tell them thank you, but I'll be taking my business elsewhere.

I've been hearing quite a bit of negative things about BHB lately. Maybe they should cut back on their "reality shows" twice a week (or however often they do it now), and focus more on the condition of their snakes....

Just my 2cents

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Originally Posted by Kinra

So I just heard back from Lori. Instead of paraphrasing here is what she said:



What would you do? I don't think she would be able to breed (and I'm not sure I would want to breed a snake with a kink), but do you think she would be able to produce viable clutches? Do you think the kink is genetic? I know super cinnies are known for having kinks so I find it believable that the kink could be genetic.

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I would be concerned about her ability to pass eggs, but I have zero experience with kinks. It sounds like Lori is willing to do anything to make it right for you, which beyond erasing your disappointment and trouble, is all she can do. It's your call as to whether you want to keep her, but the options she presented all sound very fair. Like you said before, it isn't so much whether you have issues, but how the seller chooses to resolve them.

I say get the full refund.

In 2 years or so when your new pewter without the kink is ready to breed, you'll be glad you sent the kinked one back.

I really hope BHB steps up their quality control quickly. It's such a shame to see negative posts on their behalf.

I'm with the others here, I would opt for the full refund. Sure, she has a beautiful pattern, but I know personally, I wouldn't be able to breed her in good conscience knowing that it could potentially harm her and/or pass on the defect to the babies. I'm actually a little surprised to see that BHB is trying to tell you that there shouldn't be any problem breeding her while also saying that they didn't notice the kink. But I guess with the other posts I've seen about their animals recently, I shouldn't be too surprised. I too hope that BHB steps back from in front of the camera and focuses on what got them to where they are now, and that is producing high quality animals and proving the customer support to match it...

That's crap they should have told you from the get go! :colbert: I'd send her back in a heart beat and spend my money else where if that happened to me! :confused:

I would send it back for a full refund as well. And like was said above, get a prepaid shipping label from them. They should be able to email it to you. That way you are only out the price of a heat pack.

That is a major defect that anyone who has held the snake in hand would have noticed. Unacceptable.

I really like this place just for the education on who and what to look out for.

Send back the snake, get a refund and let them handle the shipping back. YOU SHOULD NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING!! Let them send you a heat pack too.

I can't believe that they didn't inspect the snake before sending it. It won't take 5 mins to inspect for defects and mites. It's their name on the line. I understand that they have a lot of snakes to ship and take care of but that should not be a reason for poor quality control.

TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN!
I would not even consider keeping her. For all you know she could have internal health issues that you are not aware of. And I would say that at the very least you need to be concerned about the possible intestinal impaction caused by that kink impacting her ability to pass waste properly. And as stated before you should demand that they not only pay for the return shipping (including the heat pack, packing tape, etc ) but for the original shipping. They hatched her, raised her, sold her and shipped her and they are trying to tell you that they never noticed the major kink in her spine. Then on top of that they are trying to tell you that the deformity won’t cause any problem with breeding and that it is for sure not genetic. And they know all this from the picture you sent them because this is of course the first they’ve heard of this kink, hhmmmm. If I were you I’d be pissed. In fact I am pissed and this incident really had nothing to do with me.

Thanks everyone. I'm going to send her back. It's a little scary that they think she could still breed and maybe she can, but I honestly don't think it's worth the risk.

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Originally Posted by Kinra

Thanks everyone. I'm going to send her back. It's a little scary that they think she could still breed and maybe she can, but I honestly don't think it's worth the risk.

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I think that is a good decision. And it is easy for them to say she can breed because that gives you all the risk and leaves them none.

Good that you are sending her back. I don't like the fact that they're claiming the kink isn't genetic, when it very well could be. So sorry this happened.

i loved them, until i saw this, this is just poor salesmanship, i mean if theres a problem with the snake dont sale it, or let them know before they spend the money on it nd not be able to breed it if tht was their intentions.

Sorry this happened to you. You are such a good person to not bad mouth BHB. Just letting everyone know your situation is good enough :gj: I hope it works out the way you want it to.

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Originally Posted by DellaF

Sorry this happened to you. You are such a good person to not bad mouth BHB. Just letting everyone know your situation is good enough :gj: I hope it works out the way you want it to.

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I don't see any point to bad mouthing them. They acknowledge they made a mistake and offered me a choice of how to make it better. $225 is too much for me to spend on a pet when I could put that towards a pewter who can breed for me, so I've accepted to have her refunded.

I'm disappointed not angry. She was exactly what I was looking for but it wasn't meant to be. She will make a very pretty pet for someone (I hope no one tries to breed her). :)

Oh man that really sucks. She is beautiful, and that kink is hard to miss. I'm not really buying that they missed that kink though. I could maybe understand not seeing it if the snake was always balled up, and you have a ton of snakes, but you have to sex the snake at some point to know it's female...

Anyhow, I'm glad you are sending her back, I would be worried about her not being able to pass eggs. Kinks can be genetic or incubator caused, either way, I would be reluctant to chance it.

I had a kinked baby this year that I ended up selling to someone as a pet for $25. I had him at full price, but I didn't feel right selling him at that price. I made it very clear on my site that he was kinked and had pictures up of the kink. -the kink is at the tip of the tail if you don't see it right away
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...Sale/007-3.jpg

I'm really sorry and feel terrible for you:( I believe that you made the right decision. If I was in your shoes, I would take my business elsewhere. If that sneaked pass their quality control, What else does? :O

I received the shipping label from Lori this morning, I will be shipping her back to them tonight so if all goes well I will get my refund tomorrow. It does suck that she has a kink and I don't know how they missed it. I had her out last night to get another look at it and when she relaxes her body makes an L. Her spine is literally bent at a right angle. I am happy they are resolving this issue quickly but I hope they don't try to sell her to someone else as anything more than a pet.

I've also already found another pewter that I am excited about. She is much larger than this one at 337g already and her color and pattern is just as nice. She's coming from a breeder with a great reputation so I'm actually happy in a way that this purchase from BHB didn't go as planned.

Thank you everyone! You've all been very supportive and that's what I love about this community. :hug: