The ball python complex

So I thought this could be a cool thread to have handy for beginners or anyone really. I will need help from others as I don't know them all, but this thread is for all the different complexes when breeding. I will start with what I know and others can add on to it.

BEL Complex (blue/black eyes)
*combine any of the following for chances of BELs*
-Lesser/Butter
-Mojave
-Russo
-Fire

Yellowbelly complex
*combine any of these with yb to create the "het"*
-Spark (het. puma)
-Het. Highway

Mojave complex
*not sure on real complex but they look so similar I lump them together*
-Mystic (making mystic potions)
-Phantom (making purple passions)


Please feel free to add. I would really like to make this thread a good reference.

Thankyou
Kevin.

http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php

Blue Eye'd Leucistic Complex
Butter
Mojave
Russo Het Leucistic
Phantom
Mystic
Lesser Platinum
Mocha
Special
Daddy Gene

8 Ball Complex
Cinnamon
Black Pastel

Black Eye'd Leucistic Complex
Fire
Sulfur

Super Stripe Complex
Yellow Belly
Goblin
Orange Belly
Spector
Whirlwind
Het Puma
Het Highway

Piebald Complex
Leopard
Piebald

Albino Complex
Albino
Toffee

You won't get a lucy from breeding a fire to anything that makes a BEL.

Fires and Sulfurs will makes Black Eye Lucies. I don't know if there are others.

The BLACK eyed leucistic complex is completely separate from the BLUE eyed leucistic complex. If you breed a lesser or a mojave to a fire, you'll just get a mojave/lesser fire, not a white snake. Very nice, but different genes.

BLUE eyed:
mojave
lesser/butter
mystic/phantom
special (crystal)
russo hets
mocha

BLACK eyed:
fire
sulphur
(I have a feeling there's at least one more I'm forgetting)

and you can add Spector to the YB complex.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonunit

BLACK eyed:
fire
sulphur
(I have a feeling there's at least one more I'm forgetting)

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lemonback is suspected to be a part of it, but no one has publicly proved it.

Thank you for the help. My mistake on the black eyes!

Much appreciating the input and additions.

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Also, phantoms and mystics don't make all white snakes when bred to those listed under the bel complex so why are they there? Not down playing amyone, just curious...

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Would someone simplify this complexity please?

Starting with: What's a complex?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevinb

Also, phantoms and mystics don't make all white snakes when bred to those listed under the bel complex so why are they there? Not down playing amyone, just curious...

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I'm not completely familiar with all of the phantom and mystic combos, but I know that a mojave X mystic combo is called a mystic potion and is more of of a purple/gray color.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Would someone simplify this complexity please?

Starting with: What's a complex?

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Here is a link that will help explain it: http://www.owalreptiles.com/articles...cs.php#complex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I'm not completely familiar with all of the phantom and mystic combos, but I know that a mojave X mystic combo is called a mystic potion and is more of of a purple/gray color.

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Yes a mystic potion (mysticxmojave) is that color along with the purple passion (phantomxmojave) and mystic phantom. They are all a grey/purpley snake....which is why I'm confused why they are in the BEL complex?

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Being in a complex has absolutely nothing to do with what the snake looks like. It means the gene sits on the same locus as another gene. breed a lesser/mojave to a normal, you get lessers and mojaves. breed a mystic potion to a normal, you get mystics and mojaves. never normals or recreations of itself. Butter, Mojave, Russo Het Leucistic, Phantom, Mystic, Lesser Platinum, Mocha, Special, Daddy Gene all sit on the same locus.

This is why you cannot have a lesser/mojave/mystic all in one snake, there only two places to sit on each locus.

you can call the complexes w/e you want.... the name has nothing to do with whats going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Being in a complex has absolutely nothing to do with what the snake looks like. It means the gene sits on the same locus as another gene. breed a lesser/mojave to a normal, you get lessers and mojaves. breed a mystic potion to a normal, you get mystics and mojaves. never normals or recreations of itself. Butter, Mojave, Russo Het Leucistic, Phantom, Mystic, Lesser Platinum, Mocha, Special, Daddy Gene all sit on the same locus.

This is why you cannot have a lesser/mojave/mystic all in one snake, there only two places to sit on each locus.

you can call the complexes w/e you want.... the name has nothing to do with whats going on.

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Thanks for clearing that up. I just feel they should be on a complex of there own as no lucy comes from them?


Ooooooopppsss, nevermind figured it out myself. But let me relay it for sure. Phantom/mystic are in the bel complex because mojave is and when paired with phantom/mystics they create the potions and passions which when bred to anything will throw off one gene or the other no matter what....no normals. Correct?
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevinb

Thanks for clearing that up. I just feel they should be on a complex of there own as no lucy comes from them?


Ooooooopppsss, nevermind figured it out myself. But let me relay it for sure. Phantom/mystic are in the bel complex because mojave is and when paired with phantom/mystics they create the potions and passions which when bred to anything will throw off one gene or the other no matter what....no normals. Correct?
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yup

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

lemonback is suspected to be a part of it, but no one has publicly proved it.

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I think that's the one I was thinking of. Really? It hasn't produced any lucys, or it hasn't produced any lucys in combination with a fire gene?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php

Albino Complex
Albino
Toffee

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What? Really? Are there half toffee/half albinos out there? When was this proven?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonunit

I think that's the one I was thinking of. Really? It hasn't produced any lucys, or it hasn't produced any lucys in combination with a fire gene?

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lemonback x lemonblack produced the cleanest black eye'd lucy's id ever seen. No one has publicly done a fire or sulfur to a lemonback though. Pro exotics was the one running with the project and after the fire they had, im not sure how many are out there now, they gotta be pretty rare. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonunit

What? Really? Are there half toffee/half albinos out there? When was this proven?

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proven a year or two ago, but it was kept pretty hush hush until someone else also produced them, called the toffino, theres a couple threads on it here, this ones got a link with a video for ya http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hlight=toffino

Hi guys it's my first post but i looking about info of complex in google and find this topic - so sorry for dig it up.
Are there any New adds to some Complex?
i mean something more then http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php what will be 100% correct?

I keep that link as current as the info I find.

There is Asphalt (het Freeway) to add to the YB complex.

Also seems the Blackhead and Spider may well be allelic. But I reckon more needs to be done to souse that out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevinb

Thanks for clearing that up. I just feel they should be on a complex of there own as no lucy comes from them?


Ooooooopppsss, nevermind figured it out myself. But let me relay it for sure. Phantom/mystic are in the bel complex because mojave is and when paired with phantom/mystics they create the potions and passions which when bred to anything will throw off one gene or the other no matter what....no normals. Correct?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

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When bred to a lesser, phantoms at least will produce a BEL. There's no reason a mystic wouldn't, as well, or that it has to be a lesser. Butter would probably do the same. (Although when put to a Russo, they create an opal diamond, which is all kinds of awesome.)

I believe Vanilla needs to be added to the Black Eyed Leucy complex. And I guess "Het Daddy" should be in the BEL complex. As I understand it, a Platty Daddy x Normal pairing gives you Lessers and "het Daddys" (WOBP calculator does this one wrong).

Candy should be in the Albino complex too, if we are considering it as a separate morph from Toffee.

so summary it's:

Blue Eyed Leucistic Complex	Super Stripe Complex	8 Ball Complex	Black Eyed Leucistic Complex	Albino Complex	Yellowbelly complex	Piebald Complex (?)
Butter Daddy Gene Lesser Platinum Mocha Mojave Mystic Phantom Russo Het Leucistic Special Bamboo	Gravel Orange Belly Spark Spector Yellow Belly	Black Pastel Cinnamon Het Red Axanthic	Disco Fire Sulfur Vanilla	Albino Candy Toffee	-Spark (het. puma) -Het. Highway	Leopard Piebald

It's correct?

Why are Leopards included in the "Pied Complex"? I was under the impression that the theory that all Leopards were het Pied had been disproven. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading that somewhere. I will have to try and find it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

Why are Leopards included in the "Pied Complex"? I was under the impression that the theory that all Leopards were het Pied had been disproven. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading that somewhere. I will have to try and find it.

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i find this information in this topic - it's weird for me too on world of ball pythons genetic wizard this "x" don't give any nice new snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Royal Hijinx

There is Asphalt (het Freeway) to add to the YB complex.

Also seems the Blackhead and Spider may well be allelic. But I reckon more needs to be done to souse that out.

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Updated and has anymore info came from the possible BH spider theory? I thought the theory was only based off 1 or 2 clutches and I haven't heard anything since.

Guys this thread is is over two years old. you can click on the link http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php but the updated list would be:

Blue Eyed Leucistic Complex
Butter
Daddy Gene
Lesser Platinum
Mocha
Mojave
Mystic
Phantom
Russo Het Leucistic
Special
Bamboo

Super Stripe Complex
Gravel
Orange Belly
Spark
Spector
Asphalt
Yellow Belly

8 Ball Complex
Black Pastel
Cinnamon
Het Red Axanthic

Black Eyed Leucistic Complex
Disco
Fire
Sulfur
Vanilla

Albino Complex
Albino
Candy
Toffee

to anyone reading this in the future, this post is from 2014