Lung Wash?

This is a very straight forward question.. what is a lung wash? Besides my vet refusing to explain what a lung wash was, I can find nothing of what it actually is. All I know is that if it's done I'm looking at a bill worth more then I want to say.... can someone please explain this, And tell me, is It really going to help with an RI or just put my snakes life in more danger then what it's already been put in..

I dont know but if your vet didnt even want to tell you what it is then it is probably a bad idea or is evasive. If you dont want to shell out the cash then get a second opinion. Was it a reptile vet?

Well I just looked it up and found it in 2 seconds and it involves putting a catheter down you snakes throat so obviously you should just let it be cause only an experienced vet or medical personal should do such a thing.

Edit: It is also just to obtain a sample and not a fix. Did your snake get pneumonia?

A lung wash is the method used to get a culture of the bacteria causing the RI so the most effective antibiotics can be found. I would recommend the culture but I would also recommend a new vet. Failing to take the time to explain a procedure and why to you the client is not acceptable. The vet experienced or not should be forth coming with information a good vet works WITH you not just make decisions and asking you to pay for it with little to no explanation.

http://www.petplace.com/reptiles/pne...kes/page1.aspx

If you want to see procedures/treatments/homecare for your snake and what is involved. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

A lung wash is the method used to get a culture of the bacteria causing the RI so the most effective antibiotics can be found. I would recommend the culture but I would also recommend a new vet. Failing to take the time to explain a procedure and why to you the client is not acceptable. The vet experienced or not should be forth coming with information a good vet works WITH you not just make decisions and asking you to pay for it with little to no explanation.

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Well put.

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Originally Posted by VEXER19

Well I just looked it up and found it in 2 seconds and it involves putting a catheter down you snakes throat so obviously you should just let it be cause only an experienced vet or medical personal should do such a thing.

Edit: It is also just to obtain a sample and not a fix. Did your snake get pneumonia?

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I did a Google search and all I got what an article about it being done to a snake in a zoo.. to answer the other question, yes, the vet is a certified Reptile vet.. dare I say that. I personally believe all she cares about is a quick Buck.. to the pneumonia question, I'm going to be honest, I don't know. He had the "cottage" cheese in throat, which the medicine shots got rid of, but the bubbles inside his mouth we just can't get to stop. His trachea isn't swollen any more really and he breaths a lot better, but he is still sick. I've gone back and forth with this vet and I can't stand any more.. she "forcefully" tried to force feed my pastel Because he lost a whole 60 grams. (Which he weighs just over 1,100)

I really just don't know any more, and the only other vet I can't get a hold of.. to make matters worse one of our juveniles is starting to get sick. Which because of correct husbandry I'm going to say was human error.. (as in I had some on me or something..)

Did the vet even give you a diagnosis? Or run any tests?

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

A lung wash is the method used to get a culture of the bacteria causing the RI so the most effective antibiotics can be found. I would recommend the culture but I would also recommend a new vet. Failing to take the time to explain a procedure and why to you the client is not acceptable. The vet experienced or not should be forth coming with information a good vet works WITH you not just make decisions and asking you to pay for it with little to no explanation.

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Thank you that is some good info! And I'm going to be.honest again... I want another Vet. But the only other vet I just can't get a hold of. And the one time I did, I was on hold for a few hours before they hung up. I'm also trying to avoid it in the beginning after hearing that they killed my friends RTB a few years ago when attempting to give it's shot, then told him "not our fault your snake was sick" both the vets around here sicken me.. don't get me wrong, I Love my animals, and I try to give them the best lives that I can, but after almost a 1,000 on vet bills for one snake alone.. it's hard to keep paying the vet for failing treatments..

Personally I would find another vet ASAP. 60g on a 1100g animal is not a massive enough amount of weight to undergo a stressful treatment such as a ff. That vet would be on my crap list from that already. Secondly to not explain a treatment to a patients owner is UNACCEPTABLE. Since the animal is still sick and possibly needing more abos id keep the hotspot at around 94.f and never let the ambient and cool zone go under 80-85.f. Humidity @ 60% As little stress as necessary. Also id give a couple good soaks while off the abos. To make sure the animal stays hydrated. If he shld get back on abos a good soak everyday to every other day will keep him well hydrated. Water temp at 88.f.
Keep the enclosure clean... Like sterile clean especially if there's alot of mucus to prevent any further reinfections.
Anyways these are a few of the things I do whenever I see balls with Ris. I generally get at least 1-5 rescues with an Ri yearly so I've dealt with a few of them.


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Originally Posted by VEXER19

Did the vet even give you a diagnosis? Or run any tests?

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Originally when I took Isildur the Vet said this exactly, "I don't know what you're seeing, I see no obvious signs of a RI" even though he clearly had bubbles in his mouth, he was drooling and hid trachea was swollen, so I went home and week later went back and the vet said, "he has a RI" then gave me the shot. Which I need to go get to see the name and dosage. (He currently in another house with my dad for quarantine measures) the only other thing she did was listen to his heart beat. She wants to do a fecal but isildur hasn't "pooped" but twice in the past 2 months, and only eaten once.

The vet gave antibiotics already? I am going out on a limb here but I BELIEVE (not 100% sure here) but a culture is only useful before any anti biotics are administered. My understanding is that after the value is greatly reduced.

I think your feeling is right time for a new vet. I would like to say go fine another reptile vet but they are few and far between sometimes. An alternative is to find a vet that will A. see a snake. B. is willing to work with you.

There are a number of good books out there on reptile and snake disorders there is a lot of information on line too. if you have a vet any vet whom is willing to look over your research and treat based on that you are likely better off than going to the vet you have been. I wish I had a good option but that is the only one I can come up with. I am lucky there is only one herp vet where I live but she is good and cares and is very open to my experience and input we don't always see things the same way but she listens and explains. Even a cat vet whom is willing to do the same is better than un caring and poor treatments you are describing.

RI is *usually* bacterial or fungal caused. I agree with running fecal generally it isn't as likely to be of much help with RI. With poor feeding added to the mix maybe it makes more sense I am not a vet.

I always come back to husbandry snakes as we all know respond very directly to failures in husbandry. I might suggest looking at heat again and especially humidity and VENTILATION!!! It is far too common practice keeping snakes with little air flow that causes an increase in bacteria levels and that increases the risk for RI. Ambient air temps too.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ons-The-Basics

Just a thought but the above can also cause eating issues too. But I am only commenting on the information given, if you are certain things are right (long term captives in the same set up) ignore this but it is what the information you have posted leads me to.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

RI is *usually* bacterial or fungal caused. I agree with running fecal generally it isn't as likely to be of much help with RI. With poor feeding added to the mix maybe it makes more sense I am not a vet.

I always come back to husbandry snakes as we all know respond very directly to failures in husbandry. I might suggest looking at heat again and especially humidity and VENTILATION!!! It is far too common practice keeping snakes with little air flow that causes an increase in bacteria levels and that increases the risk for RI. Ambient air temps too.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ons-The-Basics

Just a thought but the above can also cause eating issues too. But I am only commenting on the information given, if you are certain things are right (long term captives in the same set up) ignore this but it is what the information you have posted leads me to.

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That is why I don't see a point to the fecal as well, what makes it worse is the assistance to the vet even said a fecal wouldn't help. I will be honest, in quarantine his temps And humidity flux, and I can't know them all the time. But from multiple times the temperature and humidity were aways fine. Though some ones the humidity likes to drop to 25-35 at night but usually stays around 50 during the day. I will also say, I forgot to mention the snake originally had a RI when I acquired it.

That could make it more susceptible to it. that situation really sucks I am sorry I hope that you get a hold of the other vet soon.

I’m a vet tech and to me the symptoms you described sounds like a respiratory infection. I think the doctor suspected the snake to have a RI and not a URI; this is why she did a lung flush. I have no idea why she did not do a culture/cytology. Doing this would give the doctor a better idea of what kind of antibiotic/medication are need to treat the patient for a bacterial, mycoplasma, mycotic, viral, or parasitic pneumonia. The doctor is doing the trachea or lung wash not only to clear out some of the discharge, but also to collect a sterile sample of the mucus/discharge.
In our practice the sample taken is set up for an in-house cytology for the doctor to look at and the rest is sent out to a lab as a culture. Most of the time the doctor will give an antibiotic injection afterwards and send the patient home with oral or inj. antibiotics. Depending on the results once the cytology is sent back the doctor would either keep the patient on the meds or sometimes a different medication or antibiotic is needed.
I don’t know why your vet did not explain this to you, or why they dealt with this case in the manner they did. Before finding another vet I would express your concerns, and disappointments to your vet, especially if the symptoms have no improvement. Trust me sometimes a clients concern is all that’s needed to give doctor/techs a wakeup call and help them get back on track. If conversation does not result in better pet health care than I would advise finding another vet. And remember in human and pet care all doctors are "practicing medicine" and just because the treatment did not work the first time around doesn’t mean it’s the doctors fault. Hope this helped.

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Originally Posted by Jumbie

I’m a vet tech and to me the symptoms you described sounds like a respiratory infection. I think the doctor suspected the snake to have a RI and not a URI; this is why she did a lung flush. I have no idea why she did not do a culture/cytology. Doing this would give the doctor a better idea of what kind of antibiotic/medication are need to treat the patient for a bacterial, mycoplasma, mycotic, viral, or parasitic pneumonia. The doctor is doing the trachea or lung wash not only to clear out some of the discharge, but also to collect a sterile sample of the mucus/discharge.
In our practice the sample taken is set up for an in-house cytology for the doctor to look at and the rest is sent out to a lab as a culture. Most of the time the doctor will give an antibiotic injection afterwards and send the patient home with oral or inj. antibiotics. Depending on the results once the cytology is sent back the doctor would either keep the patient on the meds or sometimes a different medication or antibiotic is needed.
I don’t know why your vet did not explain this to you, or why they dealt with this case in the manner they did. Before finding another vet I would express your concerns, and disappointments to your vet, especially if the symptoms have no improvement. Trust me sometimes a clients concern is all that’s needed to give doctor/techs a wakeup call and help them get back on track. If conversation does not result in better pet health care than I would advise finding another vet. And remember in human and pet care all doctors are "practicing medicine" and just because the treatment did not work the first time around doesn’t mean it’s the doctors fault. Hope this helped.

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I apologize for such the late, my "started threads" wouldn't come up. To this, I will say.. we had a heated debate with our vet, to keep the reply short I took in our two younger balls, (fiancée didnt listen and got one sick...) but after talking to the vet for awhile an keeping my cool I stated the lung wash would do little and asked for extra antibiotics because there doing only a little for our pastel. So, we exchanged words... and to put it lightly she said I wasn't as stupid as I sounded, which insulted me none the less, but I let it go.. and now I have 3 snakes on ceftazidime. I really hope this works because on the two younger ones it's nearly up there r.I.'s but on the adult pastel "isilsur" it just can't her rid of it completely. They are 3 doses left so I will keep the health of all 3 snakes up to date.

I tried to keep this reply short, mostly to the fact I argued.with. my vet and I believe after telling her how I personally feel she will now treat me and my snakes better, but I can only hope.