Please help, I need help determining if these are fires...

I have never actually seen fires in person, and I know these pics suck, but its all I have to go on before actually going to see/purchase them. I am getting an incredible deal on a male and female fire, but because I havent seen the morph in person before I was hoping those who have seen a lot of them may be able to make a determination as to if they are actually fires or just pretty normals. Maybe you could explain what exactly to look for when going to see/purchase them? or show me pics of yours? It is either get a great deal on these fires or I am buying a pewter breeder male, so I wanna make the right decision. I had the person selling them take pics in the sunlight so their camera flash wouldnt change tones or anything. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

I know the pics suck but these are the best they have...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/1.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/2.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/3.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/4.jpg

cant tell from the pics, need bigger and quality ones too

Those are the best pics that I have. They sent them to me from a crappy cell camera. I dont wanna pass up the deal if they are fires, but I dont wanna spend that much on pretty normals, ya know?

Take better pics when you get there, tell him you need an hour to go grab something to eat and "think it over", meanwhile you are posting pics on BPnet. We will let ya know :)

the bottom two look like they are the right color but bigger pictures or at least pictures on a better background.

The second issue is my wife is the one thats picking them up because she works out of town and thats where they are. She is going to pick them up on her way home sunday. Maybe everyone could chime in with pics of their own fires and a great detailed explanation of what to look for? Are there any good markers to look for or is it really just color? I can try to blow the pics up for you a little but its just going to make them look pixilated.

In the first photo, the larger snake on the bottom sort of looks like a fire..
But its hard to tell... And the bottom two photos look like one.

Did the owner breed them? Ask if he ever produced a Black eyed lucy

Its either buy these fires (possible fires) for $375 or a pewter proven breeder male for the same price. The guy selling the fires is selling them as fires, he is not a breeder they were his pets. He got them from a breeder that was an ex coworkers boyfriend. Obviously the 2 fires would be a better deal, but the pewter deal isnt bad and comes with less stress :rofl: But the deal is way too good to pass on the fires (if they are fires) because they are like 700g male and 900g female...

Here are my thoughts...

Good deals are not rare, life changing events that never come again. There will be other good deals in the future. Maybe not precisely for a pair of fires at this same price...but SOMEthing that you can be happy with AND confident about purchasing.

I would not buy a snake if I could not 100% identify it myself. If I can't be confident of the claimed morph, I'll pass on the deal, no matter how good it is. And this includes limiting myself due to my own lack of experience with certain morphs. I wouldn't buy a vanilla, for instance, because I can't tell one from a normal. Maybe someday, when I've had more hands-on experience with the morph, that might change. But if ~I~ can't tell, then I'm not going to buy it.

I'd pass on this one. Horrible pictures. 3rd party assurances that they are what they're supposed to be. No experienced person able to see them in person and help you identify them. It's not a recipe for success.

Also...one last thought...

Anytime you have to "hurry up" and decide "right now" on a deal....it's usually best to just walk away. Not always, but again, it goes back to that confidence level. When you KNOW the morph is what they say it is and you KNOW you can trust the seller, go ahead and jump on that great deal. But when uncertainty is involved, that "right now" urgency ups the risk factors a LOT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Its either buy these fires (possible fires) for $375 or a pewter proven breeder male for the same price. The guy selling the fires is selling them as fires, he is not a breeder they were his pets. He got them from a breeder that was an ex coworkers boyfriend. Obviously the 2 fires would be a better deal, but the pewter deal isnt bad and comes with less stress :rofl: But the deal is way too good to pass on the fires (if they are fires) because they are like 700g male and 900g female...

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If they truly are fires, the female alone is probably well worth it if you plan to breed. She's almost to breeding weight. Pairing her with your pastel will be really nice. But then again, that pewter will make super pastels w/ your other pastel...hahaha

But I guess, it just comes down to preference. For the same price you can get a double gene male or 2 single gene male/female... But then there's upkeep. Feeding and cleaning after one more snake compared to maintaining two. etc etc. P

What a tough decision... How about get all 3 snakes to get out of this rut! HA!:banana: jk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Here are my thoughts...

Good deals are not rare, life changing events that never come again. There will be other good deals in the future. Maybe not precisely for a pair of fires at this same price...but SOMEthing that you can be happy with AND confident about purchasing.

I would not buy a snake if I could not 100% identify it myself. If I can't be confident of the claimed morph, I'll pass on the deal, no matter how good it is. And this includes limiting myself due to my own lack of experience with certain morphs. I wouldn't buy a vanilla, for instance, because I can't tell one from a normal. Maybe someday, when I've had more hands-on experience with the morph, that might change. But if ~I~ can't tell, then I'm not going to buy it.

I'd pass on this one. Horrible pictures. 3rd party assurances that they are what they're supposed to be. No experienced person able to see them in person and help you identify them. It's not a recipe for success.

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Very good advice!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

If they truly are fires, the female alone is probably well worth it if you plan to breed. She's almost to breeding weight. Pairing her with your pastel will be really nice. But then again, that pewter will make super pastels w/ your other pastel...hahaha

But I guess, it just comes down to preference. For the same price you can get a double gene male or 2 single gene male/female... But then there's upkeep. Feeding and cleaning after one more snake compared to maintaining two. etc etc. P

What a tough decision... How about get all 3 snakes to get out of this rut! HA!:banana: jk

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If I had the cash haha! I just realized you are in Davis, I am in elk grove. If you ever have stuff for sale let me know :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Also...one last thought...

Anytime you have to "hurry up" and decide "right now" on a deal....it's usually best to just walk away. Not always, but again, it goes back to that confidence level. When you KNOW the morph is what they say it is and you KNOW you can trust the seller, go ahead and jump on that great deal. But when uncertainty is involved, that "right now" urgency ups the risk factors a LOT.

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It is not so much a hurry right now kinda thing more of a I dont want someone else to drop in on it, haha! Your advice was excellent, I do believe I will just go with the pewter! I can just put him to my spider and get pewter bees, bumblebees, cinnibees, pewters, cinnys, pastels, and spiders ;)

PM sent.

You need to look at the belly, blushing, color, and head to get a good idea. I have a male and a female fire that are great examples of two variations. My male has the blushed out head typical to most Fires, were as my female has the blushed out with the dot like a Lemonback (Fire line simular to Sulfurs). Just to get you going. BP.net has a referance page on codom morphs and there you will find both Fires and Lemonbacks with a discription and pics.
Lemonback:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...5708-Lemonback
Fire:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hp?144634-Fire

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombie

It is not so much a hurry right now kinda thing more of a I dont want someone else to drop in on it, haha! Your advice was excellent, I do believe I will just go with the pewter! I can just put him to my spider and get pewter bees, bumblebees, cinnibees, pewters, cinnys, pastels, and spiders ;)

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Whatever you don't take, can I move on the deal :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombie

If I had the cash haha! I just realized you are in Davis, I am in elk grove. If you ever have stuff for sale let me know :D

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Yeah! Of course. But I doubt I'll have any morph for sale for another year or so. I've only been selling normals lately. But I'll send a PM to keep in touch. It's always great to find local members. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Yeah! Of course. But I doubt I'll have any morph for sale for another year or so. I've only been selling normals lately. But I'll send a PM to keep in touch. It's always great to find local members. :)

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I"M LOCAL TOO!!! Can I be your guy's friend. I'm a swell guy... no foolin'
:please:

haha, the person is supposed to take some more pics for me today, I will post em on here. Hopefully it will make a final determination as to wether they are fires or not...


Yay! More Local Friends :taz::banana::gj::banana::taz:

Ok, here are a few more pics they sent me today, they are being very helpful other than not having a good camera :rolleyes: Here are some head side and belly shots...

MALE
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...ullet21/9a.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/9.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/8.jpg

FEMALE
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/5.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/7.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...bullet21/6.jpg

looks like a fires based on the heads. The color isn't as light as mine, but mine are out of Mike Wilbanks's line. They have the light blushing with a notoriuous dark dot. I haven't seen normals with that.. even dinkers (I could be wrong). Bellies are clear... I'd say fire!

To be honest, I'd pick up these fires over the pewter... unless what I saw in person just didn't give me a strong feeling. but you know how much I love them fires.

FYI- The female to me looks like a decent fire and since she older she has had time to lighten vs the male which is still dark and to me might be questionable JUST based off these pics. Either way a 900 gram female fire is worth more then what you'd pay for both of them. Especially the top female pic! FIRE

I'd just get all three!

They look like fires to me. I would buy them for $375 even if they were labeled as norms :D

I'm betting if you saw them in person, you'd know whether they're fires or not.
Here's a bad cell picture, but it shows the headspot.....just imagine him being a TON brighter!
http://img.tapatalk.com/4ca896f6-3f2e-2cb4.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/4ca896f6-3f46-715f.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vitto

looks like a fires based on the heads. The color isn't as light as mine, but mine are out of Mike Wilbanks's line. They have the light blushing with a notoriuous dark dot. I haven't seen normals with that.. even dinkers (I could be wrong). Bellies are clear... I'd say fire!

To be honest, I'd pick up these fires over the pewter... unless what I saw in person just didn't give me a strong feeling. but you know how much I love them fires.

FYI- The female to me looks like a decent fire and since she older she has had time to lighten vs the male which is still dark and to me might be questionable JUST based off these pics. Either way a 900 gram female fire is worth more then what you'd pay for both of them. Especially the top female pic! FIRE

I'd just get all three!

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I would if I had the cash to spend on both...

Here's a nice head shot for you.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/...1/100_2380.jpg

Fires tend to have a mickey mouse pattern on they're head.

Top 2 pics are of the male and the rest are of the female. They appear to be going into shed and are looking "dark", the male has that more brown look to his black that fires have and the female appears more spector IMO. They are a lot smaller than I guessed, male is only 245g and female is 465g. Also, unless I was misinformed, fires great lighter and lighter as they get older right? With these colors and things they are definitely not "normals" pics suck I know, but it was dark and I couldnt take them in natural light. they have creamy yellowish orangy color on the sides mixed with a lot of speckling, lots of flames, faded head spots. looking at pics online, the female at least IMO looks more spector than fire, I dunno...
I will get more pics 2moro with better light. Anyone have a spector or a few spectors around the same age they could post pics of?

The lighting in my home and the flash from the iphone both changed their colors slightly. Hopefully I can get better pics in light...

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2778/37370341.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9866/34338262.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/61/15962793.jpg
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4328/60384884.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/977/90333272.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6223/34538409.jpg

Interesting "Dinker" project, your not going to keep them?

I say fire from the last pics, not the best fire I have seen but all the signs (ie. head stamp, blushing and belly) point to fire. That female alone is worth twice what you paid for both.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aztec4mia

Interesting "Dinker" project, your not going to keep them?

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I was thinking about it, but because they are so much smaller than I thought they were it is going to be a while before they are going to produce anything...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrBig

I say fire from the last pics, not the best fire I have seen but all the signs (ie. head stamp, blushing and belly) point to fire. That female alone is worth twice what you paid for both.

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The male looks like a fire to me, I am going to take more pics of him when he is out of shed. But the female definitely looks much more spector in person. At least from the pics I have seen online. I have never seen a spector in person and can not find too much online about specifics to look for in pattern and what not, from what I gather it is very similar to fire without the same "hypo" look to them. I will try and take more pics in the sunlight today (if we get sunlight).

The reason it is in the dark about what they are exactly is the people I got them from got them from a friend whos boyfriend ran out on her and she gave away all his snakes for free, he was a breeder (:O). He abandond the snakes for a hot new piece of tail :D (mistake). They were told the first was a fire based on an ID tag on the tub, thats the male, and they were never told anything about the female. They got the female a couple months after getting the fire. They assumed that because it looked like the fire a little it must be from the same clutch. They never had any interest in breeding them, they were just pets to them. Hopefully the new pics later will be more helpful... :please:

I just saw two fires on CL yesterday. I'm almost positive it's these snakes. I texted you not knowing it was you and not really linking the these fires to the ones on CL. But given that they are the same gram weight, from the same location, and have the same markings... I can only assume that these are them.

If you are not sure they are fires, then why are you posting that they are fires on CL?
Also, how can you expect "appropriate rehoming fee (please do your research to know what they are worth)", if you don't don't what these are?

I don't mean to call you out, but after buying them only to resell them for what they'd be worth ($700+) and advertise them as fires when you, as the owner, you don't even know what morph they are; is what I believe as unethical.

I let my friend know about the CL ad last night, but will now notify him of this.

What you do with your snakes is your own business. I'd just rather not go out of my way to help ID a morph, post videos of my fires on YouTube, send pictures and discriptions of fires, and offer to show you my fires in my collection (since we are local); only for you to buy them and then possible false advertise them to some unknowing buyer. But I guess that's CL.

Don't take this any more than what I feel is wrong.

Vitto-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vitto

I just saw two fires on CL yesterday. I'm almost positive it's these snakes. I texted you not knowing it was you and not really linking the these fires to the ones on CL. But given that they are the same gram weight, from the same location, and have the same markings... I can only assume that these are them.

If you are not sure they are fires, then why are you posting that they are fires on CL?
Also, how can you expect "appropriate rehoming fee (please do your research to know what they are worth)", if you don't don't what these are?

I don't mean to call you out, but after buying them only to resell them for what they'd be worth ($700+) and advertise them as fires when you, as the owner, you don't even know what morph they are; is what I believe as unethical.

I let my friend know about the CL ad last night, but will now notify him of this.

What you do with your snakes is your own business. I'd just rather not go out of my way to help ID a morph, post videos of my fires on YouTube, send pictures and discriptions of fires, and offer to show you my fires in my collection (since we are local); only for you to buy them and then possible false advertise them to some unknowing buyer. But I guess that's CL.

Don't take this any more than what I feel is wrong.

Vitto-

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This is going to be hard to explain, I am not offended because you arent informed on my intentions. I put them on CL and Fauna to see what the offers would be from the local breeders (I am sure you know who they are). I am not selling them to people that are not breeders for that fact. As a matter of fact I am not sure I want to sell them at all. Simply a "testing the waters" ad. Ya know? I would never sell a normal as something its not and never sell a fire as a vanilla or a blank as a blank, ya know? I am definitely not trying to pull the whool over anybodys eyes. I do know that CL here is a lot like that with everything and maybe I should have specified my intentions in the ad. I will fix it. PMing me or texting me may have been better to find out my intentions rather than posting a reply to the thread, ya know what I mean? I am not one of the crooked ones (I have met a few so far). I am definitely realizing that it may have been construed as something it wasnt and I apologize for that. If you ever wanna ask me somthing about my stuff or my intentions or anything, hit me up with a text man. I dont want you to think I am doing something I am not. Ads removed :) No harm no foul...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombie

This is going to be hard to explain, I am not offended because you arent informed on my intentions. I put them on CL and Fauna to see what the offers would be from the local breeders (I am sure you know who they are). I am not selling them to people that are not breeders for that fact. As a matter of fact I am not sure I want to sell them at all. Simply a "testing the waters" ad. Ya know? I would never sell a normal as something its not and never sell a fire as a vanilla or a blank as a blank, ya know? I am definitely not trying to pull the whool over anybodys eyes. I do know that CL here is a lot like that with everything and maybe I should have specified my intentions in the ad. I will fix it. PMing me or texting me may have been better to find out my intentions rather than posting a reply to the thread, ya know what I mean? I am not one of the crooked ones (I have met a few so far). I am definitely realizing that it may have been construed as something it wasnt and I apologize for that. If you ever wanna ask me somthing about my stuff or my intentions or anything, hit me up with a text man. I dont want you to think I am doing something I am not. Ads removed :) No harm no foul...

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I understand. I just got a little upset, that I went out of my way to try to make sure you could make the right choice on getting those fires or the pewter. I tried to provide as much advise and samples of media to help you make the best choice possible. You even told me that you loved the Nuclear (fire x butter) combos and really wanted to fires after looking of the combos that come out of them. So I took that as, I'm going to help someone that will get a great investment and a chance to make future morphs and combos of there liking for a great price. Well after seeing a add for the exact same snakes listed as fires, when looking back today you weren't sure if they were fires and I felt that I reached out and tried to help for nothing.

You are right that I didn't know your intentions and should of talked to you via PM or text. But I guess I was just trying to bring situational awareness but did it through the wrong outlet.

Again what you do with your snakes is your business. Sell them, keep them, breed them. I just wished I would of known that you thought about flipping them, regardless if it was a feeler ad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cdavidson9

Take better pics when you get there, tell him you need an hour to go grab something to eat and "think it over", meanwhile you are posting pics on BPnet. We will let ya know :)

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clever!!! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vitto

I understand. I just got a little upset, that I went out of my way to try to make sure you could make the right choice on getting those fires or the pewter. I tried to provide as much advise and samples of media to help you make the best choice possible. You even told me that you loved the Nuclear (fire x butter) combos and really wanted to fires after looking of the combos that come out of them. So I took that as, I'm going to help someone that will get a great investment and a chance to make future morphs and combos of there liking for a great price. Well after seeing a add for the exact same snakes listed as fires, when looking back today you weren't sure if they were fires and I felt that I reached out and tried to help for nothing.

You are right that I didn't know your intentions and should of talked to you via PM or text. But I guess I was just trying to bring situational awareness but did it through the wrong outlet.

Again what you do with your snakes is your business. Sell them, keep them, breed them. I just wished I would of known that you thought about flipping them, regardless if it was a feeler ad.

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I understand that. I didn't have the intention of selling them after I got them when I thought they were much bigger. I never "flip" snakes, I just decided that instead of raising them up maybe I should trade them out for something thats ready to breed, ya know? Or close to it. And I still do not know if I wanna do that, I may keep them and try to prove out what they are. I havent decided yet. Thats why the ads were more of a feeler than a "I must sell now" kinda thing. I put up a lot of ads for my snakes when I think there is something I want more and then I take the ads down when I change my mind. I have almost sold my pastels and my pin a few times, but I still havent sold em cause I always decide to keep them. I am just use to throwing up "feeler" ads when I get something to see whats out there. I do want to get into nuclear spiders and things like that, but there are sooo many different morphs I want to get into and I get impatient and want them right away, haha. Its hard when trying to build a collection on a budget...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombie

I understand that. I didn't have the intention of selling them after I got them when I thought they were much bigger. I never "flip" snakes, I just decided that instead of raising them up maybe I should trade them out for something thats ready to breed, ya know? Or close to it. And I still do not know if I wanna do that, I may keep them and try to prove out what they are. I havent decided yet. Thats why the ads were more of a feeler than a "I must sell now" kinda thing. I put up a lot of ads for my snakes when I think there is something I want more and then I take the ads down when I change my mind. I have almost sold my pastels and my pin a few times, but I still havent sold em cause I always decide to keep them. I am just use to throwing up "feeler" ads when I get something to see whats out there. I do want to get into nuclear spiders and things like that, but there are sooo many different morphs I want to get into and I get impatient and want them right away, haha. Its hard when trying to build a collection on a budget...

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I just want to point out that doing things like this is extremely frustrating to buyers. I haven't had this happen to me, but I can tell you I would be extremely upset if I had found someone selling something I was looking for only for the seller to decide they want to keep them. It would make me leery of contacting this seller in the future as well because you never know if they are going to just decide they want to keep it instead of selling.

It is hard to build a collection on a budget but the best thing you can do is think about what you want and save for it instead of jumping on the first thing that comes along. When you do this you tend to end up with better quality animals that you are happy to own and don't immediately consider selling/trading.

That's just my :twocents: you can take it or leave it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I just want to point out that doing things like this is extremely frustrating to buyers. I haven't had this happen to me, but I can tell you I would be extremely upset if I had found someone selling something I was looking for only for the seller to decide they want to keep them. It would make me leery of contacting this seller in the future as well because you never know if they are going to just decide they want to keep it instead of selling.

It is hard to build a collection on a budget but the best thing you can do is think about what you want and save for it instead of jumping on the first thing that comes along. When you do this you tend to end up with better quality animals that you are happy to own and don't immediately consider selling/trading.

That's just my :twocents: you can take it or leave it.

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Understandable, I mostly didn't sell the others due to lowballing and things like that, and then just decided to keep them instead. When I don't know if I want to keep something I put it up for trade to see if someone has something I would prefer more. I do prefer trading to selling because of this. Thats all I meant. I just want someone to offer me stuff to decide which way to go when I am on the fence about it, ya know? If someone offers me something that is inticing then I will let it go, if I get a bunch of lowballing or trades for things I dont like/want then I will keep what I have. Does that make more sense? It isn't a waste of anyones time because if you throw me an offer for trade or cash and its not what I am looking for I will tell you. I am not going to string anyone along, ya know?

Few more pics, sun never came out today, but got some belly shots and stuff.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/410/85130783.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6194/50445715.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6249/76341628.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/571/55044626.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5635/86545984.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/375/96403789.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Those are the best pics that I have. They sent them to me from a crappy cell camera. I dont wanna pass up the deal if they are fires, but I dont wanna spend that much on pretty normals, ya know?

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I know I'm way too late saying this, but this goes for anyone. If you aren't experienced enough to confidently pick out a morph that you are looking to buy, you should never buy that morph from anyone other than a highly respected breeder.

Did you pay for normals?

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Did you pay for normals?

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I didnt pay normal price for morphs, nor normal price for normals. The people I got them from got them from their friend who gave away her boyfriends breeding collection after he abandoned them all and ran off with another girl. The smaller one was marked as a fire and in all honesty really looks like one (maybe just a little dark, but he is also about to shed). The larger of the 2 (female), was the last one she had to get rid of and they said they would take her. They forgot to ask what it was and assumed it was fire because it was similar to the other one. They do not know morphs at all (these were just pets). The pics I took of her really do change her color and in scouring the internet for every image of description of spectors I could find, she really is identical to a lot of them. Has the head spot, the black fleking on her sides, random placment of dots in alien heads, dorsal striping connecting to doughnuts, her color, most of her belly is perfectly clear with lots of speckling near the bottom, etc. She really has every marker. There are a few pics on the web that look like it is her exactly. I guess the only thing to truely do is wait and breed her to a fire x yb male and see what pops out in the clutch. If I get superstripes she is spector, if I get BELs she is fire. She is definitely not normal, I do not have any normals close to her size to put her with for comparison photos, but I was thinking of putting her next to my big normal female. Dont really know what that would do with the size difference tho. I know that I would have to be a really lucky SOB if she was a spector, and it definitely isnt one of those looking for something that isnt there kind of things. I just wanna know what she is so I know what to pair her with in the future.

I will try and get some natural light pics 2moro, if the sun cooperates...

Here are the best pics of her representing close to true colors and what not
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6776/112sc.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9633/24206836.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7485/17988753.jpg

Fire X YB don't make BELs. The only thing that can make a BlkEL are Fires & Sulfurs. Breed it to a YB, you still might have a hard time telling if they are Fires.

They look like fires to me. Maybe not the best example of a fire but still. Hope you went with these, you could make some black eyed lucys next year :)

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Originally Posted by Vitto

Fire X YB don't make BELs. The only thing that can make a BlkEL are Fires & Sulfurs. Breed it to a YB, you still might have a hard time telling if they are Fires.

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I was saying that I wanted to buy a fire yellowbelly male for the female that way if she is fire I will get BELs and if she turned out to be spector I would get super stripes. Then I would know if she was fire or spector for sure. If she is a fire she is a very brown fire, but in person she really looks spector...

Finally had a little sun today :D

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4259/63827291.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9909/73963040.jpg
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/217/92193855.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8663/34859141.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6422/72019651.jpg

There's a lady in the Sac. area that deals with specters and is hatching out a few clutches of superstripes. She would know for sure. She's very nice and I've gotten a female pastel from her that I'm happy with.
Let me know if you want her Fauna name and you can PM her.

Vitto

I would really appreciate that!
:)

If you buy fires make sure they are from somebody that has a proven line,they are very easy to tell from normals if you cant tell they are normals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greghall

If you buy fires make sure they are from somebody that has a proven line,they are very easy to tell from normals if you cant tell they are normals.

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They definitely arent normals, they look like browned fires, but the female looks more like a spector IMO. She definitely doesnt look normal.

took them to a local breeder of fires today to compare them. In my opinion and his opinion they are fires thru and thru. They are a little darker than I would like, but fires they are. On another note, the female is male. He must have been clinching on me really good when I sexed him before buying him, probed 3 scales both sides. My sexing skills arent the greatest I will admit, but I thought he popped male. That is ok tho, got a good enough deal on them that that is still fine. Will sell it as male just in case. Thanks for everyones help! It is much appreciated...