New to Breeding..

Hello All!
I'm new here, and new to breeding snakes. For the last year or so, I've been reading up on BP breeding, incubation, hatchlings and the whole nine yards. With as much as I have read, I still don't feel like I know what I should to try and breed my snakes.

I've only been here since yesterday, but I've read the threads with the most helpful looking titles. I've seen a lot on who to breed to who, ages, weights, morphs...All that I understand. I don't quite understand how some members seem to know when their females are ovulating, when an actual breeding has occurred, if you don't see it personally.

Does anyone know of some specific threads/books/web pages that could help me at all? I'm new to breeding reptiles, but have bred mammals in the past (big difference, I know).

Thank you in advance! :)

Well welcome to the hobby. I had my first breeding season in 2011 and here's the game plan that I followed and some resources I used. I bought my first BP in 2008 and by 2009 I had the idea to look into breeding as a hobby. First and foremost I made some connections with some local reptile shops, other breeders locally and at shows for any tips I could get. One of my main concerns was where I'm going to get rid of these babies when I hatch them. Once I had that somewhat figured out, I watched a lot of youtube videos. JKoblylka, Brian Gundy, Ralph Davis along with others have a lot of info there. Just type in BP breeding and you'll find a lot. I was back and forth between kingsnake.com, faunaclassifieds.com and worldofballpythons.com as resources. Youtube videos also for building incubators, egg boxes etc. I've seen the book by the Barkers from VPI but I don't own it so never really used it. It's my understanding that it is an excellent rresource on all you need to know about BPs. It worked for me, just try to start out easy. I produced 4 cluthces from Normal females to 2 double gene males and it allowed me to get my feet wet. I produced 33 babies, heldback 5 females and I was able to move the rest to new homes. Good luck and continue to ask as many questions as you can.

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Hello All!
I'm new here, and new to breeding snakes. For the last year or so, I've been reading up on BP breeding, incubation, hatchlings and the whole nine yards. With as much as I have read, I still don't feel like I know what I should to try and breed my snakes.

I've only been here since yesterday, but I've read the threads with the most helpful looking titles. I've seen a lot on who to breed to who, ages, weights, morphs...All that I understand. I don't quite understand how some members seem to know when their females are ovulating, when an actual breeding has occurred, if you don't see it personally.

Does anyone know of some specific threads/books/web pages that could help me at all? I'm new to breeding reptiles, but have bred mammals in the past (big difference, I know).

Thank you in advance! :)

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This is my first breeding season and from what I understand ovulation is pretty hard to miss (but I'm sure I'm going to miss it :rolleyes:).

As for how you know if they've bred and you don't see, there is no sure fire way to tell that I know of. If you keep them on paper you might some times see marks on the paper after they've locked. You just want to keep track of who you paired with who and when you paired them. I've only seen one lock from my male spotnose so far, but he doesn't lock for long so it's possible I missed the others.

There is all sorts of information on this site about breeding and such. One website I really liked referencing during my first breeding season was Markus Jane's website. I think if you google that is should pop right up. They have a whole page dedicated to breeding ball pythons complete with a time line and pictures!

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

There is all sorts of information on this site about breeding and such. One website I really liked referencing during my first breeding season was Markus Jane's website. I think if you google that is should pop right up. They have a whole page dedicated to breeding ball pythons complete with a time line and pictures!

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Here's the link: http://ballpython.ca/gallery/breeding.html

I keep it booked marked at all times. :P

Thank you so much everyone!
I've combed through this site, but I'm sure I haven't found everything there is to find. I've looked through some YouTube videos, some are hit and some are miss, just gotta watch them all I guess. :P

Another few questions that I have that I haven't seen an answer to -
From what I understand, BPs can be cannibalistic. Is it just between larger eating smaller snakes? Or can it happen between similar sized ones? All my snakes are well fed - but not overfed, so I'm hoping they aren't hungry enough to eat each other when I put them together, as currently, everyone is housed separately. I am still a little wary of putting two together for an extended period of unsupervised time (I seriously sound like an over protective mommy now).

ALSO - what is the average/usual amount of time you leave two together? Do you just set them together and take them apart as soon as you have seen them locked? If you don't see them lock, do you just leave them? And if so, how long?

AND Again - Is it common for people to "Stud" out their male/female snakes? Get new blood from other breeders without taking on a new snake (permanently)?

I have two females and a male that are of (what I have seen to be) proper weight to breed. I'm waiting until after I get back from my holiday vacation to actually breed them, as I won't be here to check on them, and do all the necessary. It won't be until after Christmas that I put them together, unless I don't feel comfortable with my knowledge level - if that's the case, I will put it off until I do feel comfortable.

I already have two places to sell babies, and a few friends who have wanted to adopt my own pets are interested in owning one of my babies. Because I'm only doing normal colored snakes, and no (that I know of) morphs, I'm not in this to make money. If I am unable to sell the babies, I have no problem keeping them myself. It's a knowledge, fun thing for me to occupy my time with. I've recently given up breeding horses, so I do apologize if I randomly throw a horse term in here.

Thank you so much guys, all the help is so appreciated! :)

And Thanks for finding that link for me Kinra!

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Another few questions that I have that I haven't seen an answer to -
From what I understand, BPs can be cannibalistic. Is it just between larger eating smaller snakes? Or can it happen between similar sized ones? All my snakes are well fed - but not overfed, so I'm hoping they aren't hungry enough to eat each other when I put them together, as currently, everyone is housed separately. I am still a little wary of putting two together for an extended period of unsupervised time (I seriously sound like an over protective mommy now).

I was extremely worried about pairing my 500g enchi with my 2500g normal too, but everything was fine. Cannibalization with ball pythons is really rare and usually only happens when they are left together all the time. They can also tell when they are with the opposite sex (or one of the same sex - males will battle some times).

ALSO - what is the average/usual amount of time you leave two together? Do you just set them together and take them apart as soon as you have seen them locked? If you don't see them lock, do you just leave them? And if so, how long?

Most recommend 3 days together 3 days apart and separate them early if they see a lock. There are other methods people use and you need to do what works best for you. The most important thing to do is monitor your males weight during breeder. Males will breed themselves to death.

AND Again - Is it common for people to "Stud" out their male/female snakes? Get new blood from other breeders without taking on a new snake (permanently)?

I'm not sure how common this is, but you need to be careful. There have been cases where breeding loans have gone really bad for people (there are also lots of cases were they worked out well). If you can find someone you trust and get a solid contract worked out then this could be an option open to you.

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If you don't feel prepared enough to breed then you shouldn't. People do things differently and you need do what makes you feel comfortable. With me I read all I could and I'm doing some hands on learning during my first season. Some of the things you read may work for you, some may not. Good luck! :)

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Originally Posted by Kinra

If you don't feel prepared enough to breed then you shouldn't. People do things differently and you need do what makes you feel comfortable. With me I read all I could and I'm doing some hands on learning during my first season. Some of the things you read may work for you, some may not. Good luck! :)

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Definitely. I spent 10 years in the horse world before I even THOUGHT about breeding. I really want to make sure that I'm prepared to take on whatever happens.

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Originally Posted by Kinra

Most recommend 3 days together 3 days apart and separate them early if they see a lock. There are other methods people use and you need to do what works best for you. The most important thing to do is monitor your males weight during breeder. Males will breed themselves to death.

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Is it 3 days together, 3 days apart, rinse, repeat? If so, how many times?
And - I've seen the male breeding himself to death thing a few places. I only have two females that are old enough and healthy enough to breed, my other female is still recovering from her old life. So I don't think I have to worry about that, but do you suggest weighing him daily, or after every "together" session?

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I'm not sure how common this is, but you need to be careful. There have been cases where breeding loans have gone really bad for people (there are also lots of cases were they worked out well). If you can find someone you trust and get a solid contract worked out then this could be an option open to you.

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I do have someone that I would trust to do this with, but I don't think I'll be doing it for a while. I'm used to the horse world, where buying breedings is a day to day thing. I just wanted to know if it was as common in the reptile world as it is in the mammal world.

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Is it 3 days together, 3 days apart, rinse, repeat? If so, how many times?
And - I've seen the male breeding himself to death thing a few places. I only have two females that are old enough and healthy enough to breed, my other female is still recovering from her old life. So I don't think I have to worry about that, but do you suggest weighing him daily, or after every "together" session?

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You keep pairing for as long as they are interested or until she becomes gravid. It can take a lot of pairings before you reach that point. Ball pythons will breed year round so theoretically you could just keep pairing until she becomes gravid. I think there are some that do this and some that stop pairing in April/May.

As for the males, I've been breeding some small males and as long as they continue to eat I don't weigh them more than once a month. As soon as they go off food I will be weighing them weekly and once they start dropping weight I will pull them from breeding.

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Originally Posted by Xotik

I do have someone that I would trust to do this with, but I don't think I'll be doing it for a while. I'm used to the horse world, where buying breedings is a day to day thing. I just wanted to know if it was as common in the reptile world as it is in the mammal world.

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Reptiles are a little different from mammals in that inbreeding is okay to some degree. It's common practice to breed a baby back to the mom or the dad, but it's not recommend that you do this for more than a generation or two. :)

"Interested" :P You mean not trying to eat each other, right?

Because I'm only using Icky to breed to Sable and Tortuga, should I switch him 3 days with Sable, 3 days with Tortuga, back to Sable, back to Tortuga, or should I breed him to one until shes gravid, then switch to the other? I'm not in any hurry to breed, and I'm keeping my excitement on the back burner to the safety of my pets. I'm just on a quest for knowledge :)

I'm not planning on back-breeding, but I'll keep it in mind if need be. I've kinda assumed there wasn't much error for in/line/back breeding. Less hips to get dysplasia! :P

Also - I've got pictures up of everybody but Sable (I'm a bad mommy!) HERE. If you want to take a look :)

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Originally Posted by Xotik

"Interested" :P You mean not trying to eat each other, right?

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By interested I mean you haven't seen any locks in a very long time and they are constantly on opposite sides of the tub/cage. :P

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Because I'm only using Icky to breed to Sable and Tortuga, should I switch him 3 days with Sable, 3 days with Tortuga, back to Sable, back to Tortuga, or should I breed him to one until shes gravid, then switch to the other? I'm not in any hurry to breed, and I'm keeping my excitement on the back burner to the safety of my pets. I'm just on a quest for knowledge :)

I'm not planning on back-breeding, but I'll keep it in mind if need be. I've kinda assumed there wasn't much error for in/line/back breeding. Less hips to get dysplasia! :P

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You don't want to keep switching him from one female to the other, you want to give him a few days off. I'm pairing my boy Zar with all three of my breeding females and if he locks right away I will put him with another female as soon as he is finished, but once he's done with the second one he goes back into his own tub for 3-4 days and I offer food on the second day. You don't want to just breed one female and wait until she is gravid before breeding the other because one might ovulate before the other and you could miss your chance for the year. Reproduction with ball pythons starts with females building folicals (spelling?) and then they ovulate and those become eggs. If she hasn't been breeding there is a good chance she will re-absorb the folicals instead of ovulating (they also do this some times even if they have been bred).

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Also - I've got pictures up of everybody but Sable (I'm a bad mommy!) HERE. If you want to take a look :)

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They're pretty! :gj:

Alright :) I'm starting to think the hard part is getting them together when she is ovulating, and getting them to be happy-go-lucky together.

I found a bunch of webpages that are definitely helpful. I'm trying to get a general timeline, instead of a specific one though. They seem to be - start on this date, do this on this date. And I'm having a hard time deciphering the time zones for things. Such as - day 1, do this. day 2, do this. wait till day 16. do this. do this on day 28-34. wait till day 66. Something closer to that.

I'm not going to start doing anything until I'm good and ready - and we are already past the start dates I'm seeing. I'm trying to decipher things myself, but its not making too much sense in my own head. I may just be missing something. :/

Edit - Thanks Kinra! <3

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Alright :) I'm starting to think the hard part is getting them together when she is ovulating, and getting them to be happy-go-lucky together.

I found a bunch of webpages that are definitely helpful. I'm trying to get a general timeline, instead of a specific one though. They seem to be - start on this date, do this on this date. And I'm having a hard time deciphering the time zones for things. Such as - day 1, do this. day 2, do this. wait till day 16. do this. do this on day 28-34. wait till day 66. Something closer to that.

I'm not going to start doing anything until I'm good and ready - and we are already past the start dates I'm seeing. I'm trying to decipher things myself, but its not making too much sense in my own head. I may just be missing something. :/

Edit - Thanks Kinra! <3

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Most of the people who write these things breed on a large scale. There are no real time lines up until the female ovulates and then from there you can predict her lay date. Ball pythons can breed year round so while most people start on say November 1st or some other date you can start at any time. Females also can store sperm for at least up to a year.

I'm still trying to work things out for myself as I fumble through my first season. I wouldn't be surprised if I happen to open on of my female's tubs and find her either sitting on eggs or laying them. I started pairing on October 23rd when I had a storm front moving through and have just kept pairing them since. I think no matter how much you read and research you're still going to learn a lot when you actually try.

Yeah, I'm pretty much coming to the conclusion of - just have at.

Being a hands on style learner, I think my biggest issue is I'm reading everything. Not just doing it. I do believe I will start on new years. The holiday season will have died down and I won't be working so much, everything will be much easier.

Thank you so much Kinra - you have been so incredibly helpful! :)

and thank you both for this very educational thread! this is our 1st breeding season too. have had 4 confirmed locks since dec. 9th. very excited and hungry for knowledge as well. was holding my girl 2nite and think i may have felt folicals but it mat just be poo. dont know what they feel like. what i felt was like 3 oblong lumps down her side on the last 1/2-1/3 0f her body. all right 2gether. any idea?

Hello, i dont really have anything to contribute except more questions since i am of the same mindset as the original poster. My breeder said i didnt need a liscence or anything of the sort to breed in NJ and ive checked the state laws and found nothing.
The main concerns i have are:
1: Do you need a liscence to keep large numbers of BPs
2: Do you need a liscence to breed and sell BPs
3: I know how the IRS is and theres no way to get out of paying "the man", how would state and federal taxes be involved in any animals i would sell from my "tiny" breeding operation.

I know some of you will tell me to check the state laws, but i have and i couldnt find anything. Im hoping that someone out there who deals with this on a regular basis can point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance! :banana:

from what i have seen you do not need a license to keep large quantity of reptile as long as they are all cared for properly, you do not need a any permit or any thing to sell they either just maybe a proprioters license and it seems to be *under the table* for sales unless you are like bhb the irs never has a clue you are selling anything but all laws have their changes from area to area so id ask someone already in your area look into reptile expos that are nearby would be my suggestion to get more info and good luck guys and gals hope it is successfull