I feel stupid having to ask this....

I know alotttttt about breeding outcomes and such but recessives are always my weaker point. If I was to have

0.1 hc albino
1.0 vpi axanthic

How would I achieve snows?

I know together they would produce 100% normals that are 100% dh for snow (albinoxaxanthic)

I just don't know where to go from there....?

Thanks for helping me out on what I feel I should already know!



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Breed the offspring together and pray to the odds gods.

You then raise those double hets up and breed them to each other for a 1 in 16 chance per egg of producing a snow.

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Originally Posted by dart

Breed the offspring together and pray to the odds gods.

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This! :P


That's really the only way to do it. You could breed on of the dh back to mom or dad and hope that one of the visuals that will be 50% het turns out to be a het, but that's really the only other way to do it.

Inbreeding is bad though, no?

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I always ASSumed breeding siblings was a bad idea.....but sometimes I wonder what the hell I know :rolleye2:

I wish you luck if this is one of the routes you're looking to go :gj:

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Originally Posted by kevinb

Inbreeding is bad though, no?

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As long as you don't do it for too many generations it isn't that bad.

Not really when it comes to snakes. There are a few morphs where inbreeding has ill effects, but with most ball pythons, so long as you don't overdo it, you're fine. Breeding siblings together, or parent to child, is usually fine.

Well id only do it till I hit a snow most likely. I mean I could just go out and buy a vpi snpw but where's the fun in that? :p

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Inbreeding is what got us so many morphs! Most morphs came from one wild caught morph in Africa! You will not get any visuals with this pairing, just double hets! You will need to breed brother and sister together for Snows!

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Originally Posted by seeya205

Inbreeding is what got us so many morphs! Most morphs came from one wild caught morph in Africa! You will not get any visuals with this pairing, just double hets! You will need to breed brother and sister together for Snows!

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This

Yep, snakes appear to be very robust when it comes to the effects of inbreeding, showing no sign of issues for generations.
Most people play it safe by only inbreeding for a couple of generations before they outcross again.

I'm impatient, so I'd probably hold back all the females, and one male. I'd breed the male double het back to the mom, and keep back all the visuals.
I'd prove the visual males on a female of the other morph (if you have one), if possible.
I'd pair them with the double-hets when the double-het females are of age, to increase my odds. If a snow isn't produced, I should have at least confirmed which of the visuals are carrying the right gene, which increases the odds for the next year.
It doesn't increase the over-all odds of snows the FIRST year, but it increases the odds per egg in clutches where your visual males DO carry the other gene. Once you have them identified, your odds will be better the next year, too.

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Originally Posted by Kinra

As long as you don't do it for too many generations it isn't that bad.

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this

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Originally Posted by kevinb

Inbreeding is bad though, no?

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Most people will tell you it's okay, ball pythons are sedentary animals, so even in the wild they have small territories and inbreed naturally. Certainly it's easier and cheaper to breed the siblings, or parents to offspring. Sometimes you simply have to do it if you want to prove out a new trait...

Personally, I don't like to do it if I don't have to. I figure if we're all inbreeding these recessive traits, and most of us are, it'll eventually turn around and bite us. That may be dozens of generations away, or it may be only a few.

So if you have a clutch of double 100% het for snow, and you DON'T want to inbreed, what you want to do is hold back one or more females and sell the rest. Grow those up for a year, then buy an unrelated double het male from another breeder who's also doing a snow project with the same line of axanthic. Honestly, this isn't even all that more expensive compared to breeding siblings: the double het males are cheapity-cheap compared to the double het females.

What you really need to make, then, is that double het female (or two) (or three!).

From there it's a 1:16 chance per egg again. (So the more females-->the more clutches-->the more chances.)

So okay, hold back all the girlies and get a unrelated male...sounds exactly what I was thinking. Another question, say I have 0.3 DH Snows, and out of the three clutches only one produces a snow, does that mean that female is more likely to produce a snow than the others?

The best pairing would be an Albino het. Axanthic x Axanthic het. Albino... That should cut that 1/16 chance in half.

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Originally Posted by kevinb

So okay, hold back all the girlies and get a unrelated male...sounds exactly what I was thinking. Another question, say I have 0.3 DH Snows, and out of the three clutches only one produces a snow, does that mean that female is more likely to produce a snow than the others?

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That hasn't been proven so I would so no, you just got lucky.