Temperature readings go CRAZY when snake is coiled up on the probe.

I set up a tank with a hide and the hot end thermometer probe under it and tinkered with it until I got about 90F reading on there and when it was steady I put the snake in.

When I checked back later, the temperature reading was 99F!! I thought the heat tape or thermostat malfunctioned but it didn't. The snake was content hiding in the hide curled up over the thermometer probe. I do notice that the temperatures rise in my other snake enclosure when she goes on top of the probe too, but that one chooses usually to sit in another corner of the hot end and it hadn't affected things that much.

I removed the snake and left the tank there as before and within a minute the temperature reading starts falling. Within 10 mins it is back to 89 - 90F.

So what am I to do? Is it supposed to be 89- 90 F or so in the hide WITHOUT the snake coiled in it? Or with? I wouldn't worry if the temp was like just 3 degrees over because the snake was there, but 10 degree difference? What am I to do now?

your best option is to place the probe directly on the heat tape, under the enclosure, and secure it with a hot glue gun or heavy duty tape. if you take your temperature readings from there, your thermostat will have to be set to a higher temperature in order to adjust for the space between the tape and the bottom of the enclosure, but you'll avoid this problem altogether.

if you continue to have issues, perhaps others can describe in more detail where they place their probes. in any case, leaving a loose probe inside the enclosure where the snake can disturb its placement or interfere with its readings is probably a bad idea.

Just an idea, should I set the probe OUTSIDE the hide and set that up to be 89 - 90F, so that the snake doesn't coil on it all the time and I get a bad reading? But then again won't know the temperature in the hide which is probably higher than the floor outside the hide.

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Originally Posted by wwmjkd

your best option is to place the probe directly on the heat tape, under the enclosure, and secure it with a hot glue gun or heavy duty tape. if you take your temperature readings from there, your thermostat will have to be set to a higher temperature in order to adjust for the space between the tape and the bottom of the enclosure, but you'll avoid this problem altogether.

if you continue to have issues, perhaps others can describe in more detail where they place their probes. in any case, leaving a loose probe inside the enclosure where the snake can disturb its placement or interfere with its readings is probably a bad idea.

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I think you think I am referring to the THERMOSTAT probe. Of course that's not where the snake can disturb it. But I am referring to the THERMOMETER probe, so I can tell what temperature it is on the hot spot. If I tape the THERMOMETER probe under the enclosure, it won't tell me what temp it is inside.

I am not sure how I would go about putting the probe to measure the hottest temperature where the snake can go, without putting it where the snake can go...:D!

I use an IR temp gun. You can get them for around 25 dollars online. You can also get them at Lowe's and Home Depot.

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Originally Posted by TheWinWizard

I use an IR temp gun. You can get them for around 25 dollars online. You can also get them at Lowe's and Home Depot.

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I already have a temp gun, just not sure how that will help because I can measure the temperature on the surface of the substrate where the hide is, but once the snake goes there it will be a different temperature just the same? I can measure it and it will say 90F, let's say, and then when the snake is there the same thing will happen to the temperature regardless of what I measure it with?

Also once you pull the tank out and measure the temperature will immediately be different now that it is exposed to the open air? You have to open the tub to point the temp gun there, and if there is a hide you probably have to take the hide away before measuring?

Basically I am unsure what temperature I should be aiming for. I mean, I know 89 - 90F hot spot, but when the snake is there it is a different temperature. Regardless of what I measure with.

I am confused as to what I am supposed to do. Measure an empty tub with just newspaper in it, and make the hot spot 89-90F, and then just put a hide in there and forget about it or what?

Ok I am wondering if I am doing this all wrong now.

Is this what I am supposed to do?

I have a rack with tubs in it and UTH heat pads under the tubs on each level. Each of the levels UTH has a rheostat attached to it. There is also a thermostat that has a probe that is taped to the heat pad in one of the levels.

I know that the thermostat is supposed to be adjusted to be HIGHER than 90F which is what I want my hot spot to be at. I don't know what to set the thermostat to. This is because I don't know what to do to measure the temperature inside the tub at the hot spot.

I have a digital thermometer with a probe in EVERY tub. I thought I got it all right after I adjusted the rheostats on each level so that it was slightly higher than 90F (about 93F) and then set the THERMOSTAT so that the THERMOMETER readings inside the tubs were all about 90F.

Now here is where the tricky part is. When I put a hide in one level (over the probe), the temperature changes. When the snake goes on the thermometer probes, the temperature rises 10F! So what am I supposed to do about that? Do I just not care about that, knowing that it is just because of the hide or the snake trapping the heat?

I also own a heat gun, but don't know what to do with it. I know how to use it you point and you click and read the temperature but what do I do with it? Do I pull the tub out and measure the hot spot? I know from the thermometer readings that as soon as I pull the tub out the temp drops... And what about the hides and the snakes affecting the temps anyway once I put the tub back?

Also, where am I supposed to point the temp gun at if there is a hide? I can remove the hide and measure under it but that is just like measuring with no hide. Am I supposed to just measure in there diagonally with a little slit open from pulling out the tub?

I am really confused about this and I want to get it right. Am I supposed to have the hot spot at 90F with or without the hide? With or without the snake on the probe/area I measure with the temp gun?

P.S. breeders keep 1000s of snakes healthy and I find it hard to believe they measure the temps in every tub twice a day. So am I just over thinking this and I should just set the darn thermostat to, say 95F and hope for the best? I don't get this.

How I solved this problem was to put ONE thermometer probe inside an EMPTY tub, over the heat mat and under the hide, and use that as my reference point. If the temperature in there is right, I know it's right in the tubs WITH snakes.

It doesn't even have to be a big tub, on one shelf with really tight quarters, I put the probe in a small tupperware container with a lid, and used that as my guide. I still check with a heat gun every now and then, what I do is pick a tub with a snake who's already out and about, and I aim the gun through the hide door, if it's within 3 degrees or so of the probe reading in the empty tub, I don't worry about it. Once you have your thermostat set, checking it once or twice a week should be sufficient.

Gale

OK why do you have a rheostat and thermostat? they are working against each other. One is restricting the heat the other is trying to adjust it.

The t-stat should be set to deliver the correct temp in the tub the bottom of the tub. Don't use too much substrate that it changes much. Racks really need to have warm stable room temps. It can be done differently (I am actually) but it is not easy or cheap. I am wondering if your room temp is changing too?

I check every tub I have about a 3º variation that is it snakes or no snakes. I can't imagine why you have a change at all.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

How I solved this problem was to put ONE thermometer probe inside an EMPTY tub, over the heat mat and under the hide, and use that as my reference point. If the temperature in there is right, I know it's right in the tubs WITH snakes.

It doesn't even have to be a big tub, on one shelf with really tight quarters, I put the probe in a small tupperware container with a lid, and used that as my guide. I still check with a heat gun every now and then, what I do is pick a tub with a snake who's already out and about, and I aim the gun through the hide door, if it's within 3 degrees or so of the probe reading in the empty tub, I don't worry about it. Once you have your thermostat set, checking it once or twice a week should be sufficient.

Gale

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Thanks GALE for the very helpful reply! May I ask the following?

1) You said you measure with the heat gun aiming through the hide door to see if it is within 3 degrees of the temp shown by the probe in the empty tub. Is the "empty" tub just substrate? Or is there a hide in there water bowl etc. with no snake? If so, is the probe there in a hide?

2) I presume the empty tub is somewhere on the middle levels of the rack to get an average?

3) When you measure with the heat gun, do you pull out the tub only slightly and aim diagonally inside? I find that when I pull the tub out, the temp on the thermometer drops almost immediately. I would presume any reading from the heat gun would also be low.

4) Would you mind doing me a favor? Can you look to see if the temperature on your inhabited tubs is very different INSIDE the hide on the hot end, vs. OUTSIDE the hide on the hot end? What are those temps? What is concerning me is that the temperature is VERY different when there is a hide in that particular tub.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

OK why do you have a rheostat and thermostat? they are working against each other. One is restricting the heat the other is trying to adjust it.

The t-stat should be set to deliver the correct temp in the tub the bottom of the tub. Don't use too much substrate that it changes much. Racks really need to have warm stable room temps. It can be done differently (I am actually) but it is not easy or cheap. I am wondering if your room temp is changing too?

I check every tub I have about a 3º variation that is it snakes or no snakes. I can't imagine why you have a change at all.

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1) I have a thermostat as well as rheostat because then if one fails the thing won't overheat and melt the tubs. I read that on this forum actually. It is not working against each other, like I said I set the rheostat ABOVE the correct temperature setting, so the thermostat is working within that range and not affected. It is only in case the Thermostat fails that the rheostat will not allow the tape to get sooo hot it will melt the tubs.

For example, if I need the heat pad to operate at 95 to get the temps right inside the tub, I set the thermostat to 95. But I set the rheostat so that without the thermostat the tape would only run to 98 for example. If the thermostat fails, the rheostat will stop the tape from running to 150F or whatever they are capable of un monitored. It's like those people who use low wattage flexwatt that gets a little more than hot enough but not too hot, but I can't get that flexwatt so I use the rheostat to make it operate "lower", if you know what I mean.

2) Secondly, the temperature variations I speak of is not from room temp fluctations. It is the temperature reading on the digital thermometer that changes when the snake is sitting on top of the THERMOMETER probe (NOT THERMOSTAT PROBE THAT IS OUTSIDE THE TUB).

I thought it would matter because well, if the snake is there, and by virtue of it being there the temp is now too high, welll I thought it would affect the snake. Apparently it seems everyone just measures the temp with no snake there and that seems ok. So that problem solved. I still having a problem with hides causing a lot of different temps on different levels etc.

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Originally Posted by hungba

Thanks GALE for the very helpful reply! May I ask the following?

1) You said you measure with the heat gun aiming through the hide door to see if it is within 3 degrees of the temp shown by the probe in the empty tub. Is the "empty" tub just substrate? Or is there a hide in there water bowl etc. with no snake? If so, is the probe there in a hide?

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Oh silly me you said there was a hide in there.

Still interested in what the temperature difference is in any tub on the hot end IN the hide vs. OUT the hide. So your hide runs to around 90F, what is the surface temp on the hot end OUTSIDE the hide?

Also, in your experience, does the SIZE of the hide or SHAPE affect how much it raises the temperature in the hide much at all? Obviously I have different sized snakes in the same size tubs if they are still within that "size range" suitable for that tub. But the hides would be different because it has to be suitable for the snakes.

Ambient air temps will quickly change tub temps by huge amounts especially with a T-stat set against the heat source. This is also why rheostats make poor failsafes. They only work if the ambient air temp is stable if it is not they change. For example you have it set to keep the max power at 98ºF in a room that is 80 if the room is 70 it will drop the max temp down to 88 or maybe even lower (my experience is lower it takes more power to heat in a lower room temp) So if for example you are heating a room with an oil heater and it fails the rheostat will not allow a t-stat to maintain proper temps. A good safety device (generally) will protect against many faults not just one. It also does not help if the room gets too hot either it allows the max possible temp to be too hot.

It is still true that the thermostat needs to be set correctly to give you the correct temps it doesn't matter where the probe is if the temps are not right change the set point.

Is it possible that the snake is cooler than the heat source...

Could it be thermostat swing? on offs can be temperamental to how and where the probe is placed and heater power also effects them a great deal.

I own and use a bunch of hide 1/2 the animals in my rack use hides and in the fleet of enclosures I have all use them. The size shape and material of a hide effects the internal hide temp to surface temp. My heavy hides often have as much as 8º and the lighter ones 4º depends on the material. Temps need to be taken and set for inside the hot hide and the ambient temp controls everything else.

I usually place the thermometer probe in the side of the hide and not on the surface and take it from there. I use a thermometer probe on the hot hide top middle and bottom rack shelves and in addition to the T-stat probe I place a thermometer probe on the 2nd and 4th shelf heat source. I know if any of the flexwatt goes dead, and exactly what the temps are doing. I set the T-stat at 95º and that delivers a safe range in the tubs (I loose 2-4º to the tub) the failsafe is set at 100º it is enough to allow the primary to adjust but not enough to burn the snakes. I also run a secondary heat source and Tstat off a battery back up system (transfer switch and battery bank with an inverter and charging circuit) and secondary heat on the cool end to stabilize ambient temps.

Empty tub is EXACTLY like the other tubs minus water in the water bowl and the snake. It has substrate and hide just like any other tub. I put the probe I am monitoring under the substrate inside the empty hide, just like you are minus the snake. What I want is to know that the closest my snakes can get to the heat source is not too hot for them. I keep one empty tub for each set of flexwatt, so I have three altogether.

Yes, I only inch the tub open enough to aim the IR gun into the hide. Pull it open too far or too fast and it skews the readings.

And yes, if your snake coils up on the probe, the heat it traps will change the reading. I don't think I've ever seen a 10 degree difference in the outside of the hide and the inside, but 5 or 6 degrees I've seen. And yes some hides trap heat better than others do. This is also why it is important to provide a heat gradient. If one of mine gets a little too warm in their hide, they come out and curl around it for a little while to let the hide cool down then go back. I have seen this. I hope this helps you.

Gale