When To Retire Breeders?

A thought occurred to me, and after scanning through posts I've seen no answer, so I figured I would put the question out. I realize that there will be no universal answer, but I am hoping to start a discussion. I also know that Ball Python breeding is relatively young, and this won't apply for a long time for a lot of snakes in peoples' collections.

What time do you think is an appropriate age to retire a breeder? 20 years? 30? When they start displaying difficulties? Any different standards that you would hold males and females to? And finally, what would you do with your retired breeders? Keep them as pets? Sell them as pets? Anything else?

Since Balls live such a long time, and breeding has seemed to really explode in the last decade and a half, I figured that this would be something interesting to ask people.

I don't know when would be a good time to retire them, but I do know some can breed up into their 20s. I think it would depend on the number of times its been breed.

If I remember right, Eugene Bessette has a girl in her 30's that still lays eggs for him.

When they die

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

When they die

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O.O *edges away*

*coughs* Could you please explain your reasoning? Or if you're trolling, it's not very funny, or at least I don't find it amusing. And m00kfu, wow! That must be one big, old momma!

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Originally Posted by SilverDemon

Could you please explain your reasoning?

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Well thats because they don't tend to lay eggs when their dead.

there doesn't appear to be any reason a ball python cannot breed it's entire life

Yep. No reason at all to retire them if they are in good health, and still fertile.

i agree with the guys who said you can breed their whole life. As long as they are laying eggs than keep em workin'. :)

As long as they are healthy, there's no reason to retire them :)

Sorry to double-post, but I came back and realized that this deserves more explanation.

In mammals, there is either a menopause in females after which breeding isn't possible, or the females produce smaller, weaker, or deformed offspring as they become old. Males can often continue to breed until they are extremely elderly.

In reptiles, however, things are different. Reptiles continue to grow slowly over the course of their life, and very old females, with their larger size, generally lay larger clutches of eggs (at least, in species where the number of offspring is variable).
Old reptiles are usually at the top of the dominance ladder. Unlike mammals, where older animals are deposed once they pass their prime, reptiles simply become more dominant and stronger as they age, up until they begin to develop age-related infirmities and die.

In many species of reptiles, fertility continues without a hitch right up until the point of death--in some, it ceases a few years before death.
In the wild, the old reptile has proven its genetic fitness by surviving longer than the others, and it produces more offspring (which means, it spreads its genes further than younger animals). There does not appear to be any decline in the quality of offspring associated with aging in reptiles.

As a result, so long as the animals are healthy, and are still capable of fertility, there's no reason to stop breeding them. You should get large healthy clutches from big old females. As for males--if they're getting the job done, why retire them?

@WingedWolf

Thank you for that explination, I wasn't aware of that fact of biology. That does clear up a lot.

My main worry, I believe, would be that an older female near the end of her lifespan wouldn't be as hardy and able to handle the stress of a clutch. I'd never forgive myself if I overbred a female to death.

@2kdime

I apologize for the reaction, just that your post came off as a bit harsh, at least that's how I read it. No offense was meant.

Generally with reptiles you can't breed them over and over since they don't cycle repeatedly when they would not be able to produce.

For instance, a human female cycles once a month, but needs 9 months to carry to term. Therefor a human cycles more often than she can produce.

A python generally cycles once a year, and only needs about a month to 'carry to term' depending. So they cycle less often than they can produce.

No matter how much try, beg or pray, you cannot breed a ball python every month. You might be able to cycle the female into breeding within something less than a year(breed late one season and early the next season and the "gap" would be less than a year)but you can't really "overbreed" them as long as they are in healthy condition.

As they age and get larger, they lay larger clutches. But as a larger animal, they are more suited to lay larger clutches. Therefore, it is not less healthy for them to produce as they get older, quite the converse. A healthy female can be better suited for breeding the older she gets, as opposed to a human who has a threshold that they pass and then become less suitable as they age.

As long as your snakes are in good healthy condition, there's no reason to retire them from breeding. If the snake does not regain weight from breeding last season, obviously, it shouldn't be bred, but this would be regardless of age.

Most reptiles, are like fish in that they have indefinite growth. They do go through a growth spurt but continue to grow their whole life. If terms, the older they live, the bigger they get. Ofcourse the amount of food available has its effects too. For this reason, reptiles can continue to breed in their older ages and produce more babies. They are getting bigger and stronger as they age unlike mammals. Wouldnt it be neat if we could somehow genetically modify that into our genetic system? Keep growing bigger and stronger as we age. Basketball would be even more awesome with 90 year old 9 feet tall guys playing lol