mice/rats alternatives....

Anybody out there feeding there BP's something other than rodents, ie baby chicks?

I been thinking about this for a while, i know they can eat them, but is there anybody out there that has there BP's on a constant baby chick diet without any problems that can elaborate??

I don't feed any of my snakes chicks/quail (why change from rats/mice when those work so well?) but only downside I've read/heard from feeding chicks is that the snake's poop is more runny and lots more smelly. Hopefully some can chime in with first hand accounts/experience.

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

I don't feed any of my snakes chicks/quail (why change from rats/mice when those work so well?) but only downside I've read/heard from feeding chicks is that the snake's poop is more runny and lots more smelly. Hopefully some can chime in with first hand accounts/experience.

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x2 heard this also.

I have read about that too, but is that the only downside? smelly poop?

There are a few international members whom do as rats are harder to find. There is a little nutritional differences the big one looks to be lower calcium but that could be supplemented. Avians are a common prey item for sub adults in areas (according to predator/prey studies in the northern part of the range) So there can be no question they can and do eat birds in the wild. The real question is why bother? I assume you have a reason, just keep in mind there could be down sides some royals are hard to switch from one prey item to another, having a bird eating Royal that is 3400gm and eating small quail might pose a problem down the road.

well here is my first reason, i hate mice rats! im disgusted/scared of them, first cuz they are disgusting animals, and second i sort of had a bad experience when i was 6 years old where, well i dont want to get into specifics but it involved a mouse stuck on my mother and me crying scared to death that my mommy was gonna die...but thats a loonnnggg story.

Anyway i have always been able to "supress" my dislike for rodents to be able to keep my BP. I wear leather gloves, and i never touch the animal, i buy it from the petstore, i open the tank, and with leather gloves on i open the box and drop the mouse/rat in. Well the other day was sort of what made me think of a alternative. Please dont laugh at this, although i know this if pretty funny for those of you who have no problem grabbing a rat.

I went to feed my BP the appropriate size medium rat (70g) and it was the usual, i went ahead, took out the screen mesh and removed the water dish, moments later my BPs head pops out the hide (he knows no water dish = feeding time) and i go ahead put on my leather gloves and drop the rat out of the box. Well after a few failed attempts by my BP, i decided to grab the rat by the tail (with plyers) and move him in the direction of my BP as he was very interested in the rat but the rat was smart and would not move at all, anyways once i applied the plyers to the rats tail he went berserk, squeeling and just shaking, my BP was looking at the rat like he did not know what to do, so after a while the rat managed to head butt my BP, after that he quickly ran into his hide, so i now knew it was a done deal and there was going to be no feeding tonight, just at that moment that stinking rat crept all the way up and started chewing on my hand! well the leather gloves i had on, i freaked and dropped both the plyers and rat back in the tank. So now i have the rat in one side of the tank, the plyer in the middle of the tank, and my bp barricaded in his cold side hide. So i went ahead and opened my window (i live the second floor) and prepared to grab the plyers and then grabbed the rat by the tail, and as i did so and was moving the rat towards the window (he was going berserk again by the way) he once again went for my hand, i freaked and threw both the plyes and rat out the window, i looked, rat landed in some bushes and ran off.

Yeh yeh, i know im a wimp, but hey what can i say. This was 2 weeks ago, since then i fed my BP 2 small mice the day before yesterday, and it seems he is a mouser.

Anyway my SECOND reason for asking about this is, here in NYC its actually easier to get a chick of the appropriate size, than a small rat pup. Its easy to find small 20g mice in nyc, but its very hard finding a 50-60g. Usually youll get either a small mice, or a medium rat which is like almost 100g. Here in NYC there are these places all over called "viveros" i dont know how that translates in english, but they basically sell live birds for those who like "fresh meat". So in there they will have cages with ducks, chickens, geese, etc etc. So i can actually get baby chicks of the appropriate size ALOT easier and cheaper, than rats. NOt to mention i dont mind picking up a baby chick or touching one.

Anyway, sorry to make this such a long story but i just want everybody to completley understand my situation, and im not just trying to feed my BP a bird to seem "cool". But if i know it will not be healthy or better for my BP, im still prepared to handle the dilema of handling rats/mice once a week for the rest of my BP's life. But if i can find a alternative that would be perfect.... any thoughts???

I have no suggestions for you as far as the chick or not debate, but I do have a few thoughts:

If you grabbed me by my tail with pliers (rodents have full feeling in their tails), I'd freak out too.

Mice/rats aren't dirty. Having kept both as pets before, they're actually quite clean.

I would think that chic's would be much dirtier than mice or rats. I wonder why you bought an animal that ate the things that you are deathly afraid of? If you don't like touching live rodents have you tried frozen ones? You can order them online in many sizes. Anytime you are harming an animal they react in a berzerk or crazy manor to try and get away from the attacker. That is just normal behavior. I have only been bitten by rats that are protecting their young. I have had pet rats and they were one of the best pets that I have had. Honestly I have pet rats that breed for my reptile's to eat.
Please don't take my questions harsh, they are not intended that way. I a mjust trying to figure a few things out.

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Originally Posted by KatStoverReptiles

I have no suggestions for you as far as the chick or not debate, but I do have a few thoughts:

If you grabbed me by my tail with pliers (rodents have full feeling in their tails), I'd freak out too.

Mice/rats aren't dirty. Having kept both as pets before, they're actually quite clean.

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Originally Posted by Clint Bundy

I would think that chic's would be much dirtier than mice or rats. I wonder why you bought an animal that ate the things that you are deathly afraid of? If you don't like touching live rodents have you tried frozen ones? You can order them online in many sizes. Anytime you are harming an animal they react in a berzerk or crazy manor to try and get away from the attacker. That is just normal behavior. I have only been bitten by rats that are protecting their young. I have had pet rats and they were one of the best pets that I have had. Honestly I have pet rats that breed for my reptile's to eat.
Please don't take my questions harsh, they are not intended that way. I a mjust trying to figure a few things out.

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+2 :gj:

I've handled literally tens of thousands of rats in my life. I've been bitten by a rat ONCE and it was by a pet rat who had a seizure and was not aggressive in nature. They are incredibly intelligent and social animals (easily as smart/social as a lot of dogs!). Even unsocialized feeder rats are not prone to biting and I have fear reaching into any of our feeder tubs bare handed. Even our breeder females haven't tried biting when we handle their babies. I still use common sense when handling them. Don't give them a reason to bite you and they 99.9% of the time they won't.

The evil creatures are hamsters. :D They are very unpredictable and I've been bitten only God knows how many times by them! Anyone who has ever owned a hamster as kid knows they are prone to aggression and nipping and yet they somehow win out over rats because they are cute and don't have tails.

I will also second what has been said about birds being dirtier. This is open to debate, but as a whole I believe they are.

If you're dead set on feeding them poultry, I don't see any real issue. Just make sure you know and trust your source and I think you'll be all set.

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I wonder why you bought an animal that ate the things that you are deathly afraid of?

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the same reason why in 2006 i signed the dotted line (well stylus pen) when i joined the army as 11b infrantry. I dont exactly want a job where the main job function is to clear out a building full of insurgents by killing them, them as in human beings, but it has to be done to keep this country safe. Sorry if thats too intense, but i want to get my point across. I loves BP's, hate mice/rats, but since my love for BP's is greater than my disgust for rats, i make a what you call "sacrifice". We all do it, wether it be going to war with your landlord that dosent want you having a snake in your apartment, or taking time off your schedule to tend to a sick snake. We all make sacrifices for our pets, mine is dealing with something the i hate.

And chics being dirtier than rats/mice? i mean come on, seriously, not trying to be offensive, but can u really sit there and say that a baby chicken is dirtier than a rat?

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If you're dead set on feeding them poultry, I don't see any real issue. Just make sure you know and trust your source and I think you'll be all set.

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im not dead set on it, i mean im basically just trying to get you guys input on it. Like i said i can continue to go the mice/rat route, i will do anything for my BP, but if i can make my life more simply, then i will take it. If somebody out there can tell me "yes its perfectly fine to have him on a bird diet because i have done so for years" or "no, your better off on mice/rats, i tired chics, and your better of on mice/rats" etc etc...

I guess I should have thought before I signed on the dotted line in 1991. Have you tried frozen rodents yet? I know many breeders and can't think of any of them that have kept snakes on birds. None of them have ever posed the problem though that you have with rodents. If the nutritional factor is the same then there should be no reason why you can't keep the snake on chic's. I would make sure I knew who I was getting the chic's from. I raise or a friend of mine raises all of the food that I feed to my reptiles. I want to know what conditions the rodents were kept in and I know that none of them have diseases.

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Originally Posted by FrankieCarbone

And chics being dirtier than rats/mice? i mean come on, seriously, not trying to be offensive, but can u really sit there and say that a baby chicken is dirtier than a rat?

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From someone who has fed all 3 animals to my ferrets, I would like to say mice are filthy smelly creatures. They are by far more messy and dirty than chicks and rats. However, I do agree with others that rats are very clean. They groom themselves frequently and can be litter trained. They don't have a strong nasty odor as mice.

Chicks themselves aren't physically that dirty, but they make a huge mess. Liquid goopy poo everywhere! I would choose a rat over a chick any day.

However for you, a chick may be better. They're sitting ducks for any predator. My ferrets love chasing mice and rats. And the mice and rats run for their lives. The chicks just sit there all stupid and peep. They're just asking for something to eat them. (meaning they won't scare your snake or freak out)

Edit: I only feed rats to my snakes BTW.

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then you understand, nobody forced you to join up. I dont know what branch you enlisted in, but i used that as a comparison. Im not sure if you had a combat MOS or not, but hurting others is not the best feeling in the world, but sometimes its something that must be done. I hate mice/rats, but love my BP, so if i have to deal with a rat once a week but get to enjoy my BP every day after that, its a sacrifice im willing to make, voluntarily Hopefully that answers your question as to why i bought a animal that i knew i have to feed/deal with another animal im afraid of. Why did i join the army if i dont like hurting others??? because i wanted to be in the military since i was a child, and having to do hurt others is part of the job, its one of the sacrifices you have to put up with to be able to be in the military, or atleast my MOS.

Why do i feel like this is turning into a pi___ng contest now? man this has gotten way of subject, i just wanted to know if there is anybody out there that has had there BP on a bird diet with no problems besides runny poop.....

there are LOTS of these places in NY, so i would have to find that one "right one" there alot of halal spots too.

@satomi325 yes, thats what im saying, i mean i bring home a mouse/rat from a petstore in the boxes they come in, and in the 15 minute ride home and after i throw the rat/mouse in the tank, if you smell the box the rat came it the smell is horrific, and it even smells after its in the garbage bag and its a couple of feet away from me, i can still smell it!! I lived in dominican republic where roosters and chicks, and chickens run all over the place, and IMO they dont have that stinky strong odor as mice/rats do...

I know a guy near me who feeds his ball chicks and they do well. They breed while on the chicks, so I can't imagine it would be that bad. You have to think about your snake's future as well. If you ever had to rehome it and if it was eating exclusively on chicks, it would be difficult finding a buyer for it. Just my two cents.

also i noticed nobody has stated the obvious on which of the 2 are filthier animals, lets not forget one of these we eat! unless anybody on here eats rat sandwiches, or kentucky fried rats....

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Originally Posted by FrankieCarbone

also i noticed nobody has stated the obvious on which of the 2 are filthier animals, lets not forget one of these we eat! unless anybody on here eats rat sandwiches, or kentucky fried rats....

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I think they're both physically clean. Chicks are more messy. And we don't eat rats because they don't provide enough substantial meat. 1 chicken can feed a family and have left overs. 1 person would have to eat a few rats to be full. It's just economically better to raise chickens.

Cows are super filthy. They sit in their own feces. People eat beef no problem. So I don't think it's a matter of cleanliness when it comes to food animals in your example.

If you want to feed chicks, I don't see a problem.

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It' s not really off topic since you included your phobia of rodents in your original post.

Anyway, I have not used chicks on the long term basis, but did feed f/t periodically with my first bp. She took them without a problem. Of course it took several at each feeding to satisfy her. She also had no problem going from f/t rats to chicks back to rats.

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You have to think about your snake's future as well. If you ever had to rehome it and if it was eating exclusively on chicks, it would be difficult finding a buyer for it. Just my two cents.

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no way. dont see that happening, im a pretty organized person, and i know what lies in my future. And i dont see me selling, or giving away my BP under any circumstance. Some thing seriously of track has to happen for me to do so. I have a pretty secure union job, a well laid out plan for my future, and nothing in those plans include me having to get rid of my BP. I would have never bought a animal that lives 20-30 years without having some assurance to me being able to keep him that long, me and Vic and staying together until the end!

I don't understand how you guys are getting past the thing about throwing a rat out of a window.

And pliers? Really?

You may want to consider a canary.

But seriously, you should only use frozen rodents.

I would suggest going with your chicks to feed your BP too. If you need gloves, pliers, and throwing the rat/mouse into the tank (or out the window...which is very inhumane IMO to do to any living creature regardless if you like it or not) how would you be able to remove a rat/mouse if it got ahold of your snake and was biting or attacking it while feeding? So yes, I say go with chicks and see how your BP does.

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Originally Posted by FrankieCarbone

no way. dont see that happening, im a pretty organized person, and i know what lies in my future. And i dont see me selling, or giving away my BP under any circumstance. Some thing seriously of track has to happen for me to do so. I have a pretty secure union job, a well laid out plan for my future, and nothing in those plans include me having to get rid of my BP. I would have never bought a animal that lives 20-30 years without having some assurance to me being able to keep him that long, me and Vic and staying together until the end!

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I admire your loyalty.

I don't think your personal feelings are the issue. There is a valid reason that is enough for me. I don't think there is any problem offering chicks over rats. It might actually be less threat to the snake a chick really has little defence compared to a rat of equal size. The real question is what will your BP make of a chick? I think that is the next part of this question will your snake strike and feed on a chick or not. I think you are at a point where you should try.

If that fails then you might think about trying to switch your snake to F/T they are not the same as live. They definitely don't bite moms either. (phobias and fears are not laughing matters but humour overcomes adversity sometimes...)

Try the chick, and if not maybe try a F/T rat it may be easier for you to get you head around.

F/T are out of the question, as i have stated before, i refuse to have frozen rats next to my t-bones and sirloin steaks in my freezer (im a serious steak eater), also the whole process of thawing them in warm water and what not. I much rather just feed various small mice than do that.

As far as the pliers and out the window situation, first of i did not put that much force on the pliers that the rat bled or anything, and the throwing out the window like i said i live on the first floor sort of (my house is weird) and the rat landed on bushes and the way he ran off im pretty sure he was alright, as a matter of fact hes probably already gotten pregnant, and or, pregnated some other rat out here in NYC and there some half albino half grey litter out there...

And to answer another question, how would i pull a rat that got a hold of my BP, im scared of mice/rats yes, but if i were to see my prescious BP being bit in the head or something by a rat you better belief my phobia will be gone for that split second when i grab the hell out of that rat bare handed or not and THEN i can say i would inhumanely throw him out of the window or do something alot worse, like i said i love my BP..

Im still thinking this thru, for the next couple of weeks im gonna feed him 2-3 small mice until i figuere out what im gonna do. Also i still have to comb thru all the spots that sell live chicks and find the one i trust....

And chics being dirtier than rats/mice? i mean come on, seriously, not trying to be offensive, but can u really sit there and say that a baby chicken is dirtier than a rat?[/QUOTE]

Yes I have owned baby chickens, geese, turkeys, ducks, and parrots and rats and mice have beat them in being clean.

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Originally Posted by FrankieCarbone

F/T are out of the question, as i have stated before, i refuse to have frozen rats next to my t-bones and sirloin steaks in my freezer (im a serious steak eater), also the whole process of thawing them in warm water and what not. I much rather just feed various small mice than do that.

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If you don't want them in there next to your food (and I don't see why it would really matter, they're usually vacuum-sealed in their own bags and the steaks are in their own packaging so there wouldn't be any cross-contamination) you could always get a small freezer just for rats/mice. I might have to go this route for my BP as my mom also hates the idea of rodents in the freezer.

Maybe you should try and get a pet rat. Take care of it, handle it, help your phobia of them go away. Sometimes knowledge of an animal is enough to erase (or at least diminish) the phobia of that animal.

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Maybe you should try and get a pet rat. Take care of it, handle it, help your phobia of them go away. Sometimes knowledge of an animal is enough to erase (or at least diminish) the phobia of that animal.

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sorry but there is no way that it happening, there is a better chance of the economy getting back on track by tommorrow than that!

as far as the small freezer thing, i thought of that, but the apartment where i live things are a little tight as far as electricity goes, i.e if you have 2 a/c on at the same time it shorts a circuit. On top of that i dont have the space for a small fridge, and also i dont like the idea of the whole thawing out the mouse/rat, and lets not forget to mention alot of BP's dont take f/t. And the whole rats next to a my steaks in the freezer thing, wether there triple vacuum sealed or not, there still dead rats next to my food, no way.

I think the next step is like kitedemon suggest, what will my BP make of a chick and will he take it. Im gonna continue on 2-3 mice a week until i make my decision, hes at 800g+ right now, and when he gets to the point where he is too big for all those small mice, i will give the baby chick a chance.

Again thanks everybody for your your help and input on this...