Does your spider wobble?

Every spider I have kept has had some wobble. I've always wondered what type of neurological disorder could be linked to the reduced pattern mutation spider gene. I always find it somewhat entertaining to watch them wobble their heads around though lol.

I've always found spiders to be the best eaters too. Anyone else agree?

Here is a short clip of feeding my little bee.. http://youtu.be/1_9NysLSMkc

I love my spider, she's one of my favorites for sure. Her wobble isn't too noticeable except during feeding.

My breeder male has minimal wobble, but some of his offspring are like corkscrews lol

also very minimal wobble with mine.

Mine has very little wobble but certainly has some serious personality. He is also a garbage disposal when it comes to eating

My bee wobbles a bit, but not when feeding.

As far as I know, all spiders have a wobble.

All of my spiders and half a dozen spider combo's wobble..

Not too bad. My spider's only came out when he was about to strike, he would miss big time here and there. My bee on the other hand, he does some weird moves sometimes when you are holding him or when you put him back in the tub. What he does is puts his head up pretty high then slowly starts turning his head upside down or tilts it. For someone that doesn't know to look for that, they might not notice anything weird, but anyone who knows about the spider wobble would notice it.

Every spider has a slight wobble at the very least. Those ones would be like my spider, that it only shows when prey is introduced, and even then you have to know what to look for.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

What he does is puts his head up pretty high then slowly starts turning his head upside down or tilts it.

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My little spider does that too sometimes. Most of the time its not that bad though.

My male spider wobbles during feeding.. but other than that hes good, but my female spider has absolutely no noticeable wobbling at all. Neither does my female bee.

My little female spider only really does it during feeding. The new spider male I picked up has a wobble as well. It is not bad, but is noticeable if your looking for it. Doesn't get any worse when feeding, with the exception of aim while striking =)

Definitely adds character !

My male barely has a wobble, and my female isn't that bad. No corkscrewing or anything, but you can definitely see her head shaking when she's startled or at feeding time.

Both of my spiders wobble. Parker only wobbles with food, Clyde will wobble a little when he is nervous. I just think it's part of owning a spider. I adore every aspect of them. When it comes to food...both are pretty voracious eaters.

My spider corkscrews. At first it kind of freaked me out because when we first got him he didn't do it that much but now when he gets excited (feeding time or right after handling). It's very interesting to watch. He misses food a lot but I have to dangle it in front of him as he wont eat the f/t rat if it's laying on the "ground". He is an amazing eater though, only misses a meal when he's deep in shed.

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Originally Posted by evan385

As far as I know, all spiders have a wobble.

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My male doesn't have a wobble, he does this little head tilt. But a wobble it ain't.

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Originally Posted by Scaleyz

My male doesn't have a wobble, he does this little head tilt. But a wobble it ain't.

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That's part of the wobble. Any funky ( for lack of a better word ) head movement is related to wobble.

All spiders wobble. It could be as miniscule as the head tilting just a tiny bit to severe corkscrewing but they all do wobble. I have a few spiders and have seen a lot more and every one of them wobbles. Even the combos wobble. It comes with having a spider. Some people will not have them due to the wobble but I personally think that if it doesn't inhibit the snakes ability to live then there is no real problem with it.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

All spiders wobble.

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That statement is kind of misleading. I believe all spiders (and spider mixes) are affected by some kind of neurological thing, but to varying degrees...from almost nothing noticeable to corkscrewing. To say they all wobble is untrue. To say they all have the problem that could lead to wobbling is more accurate. And a "head tilt" is not a wobble. It's a head tilt. It is part of the problem that causes wobbling, head tilting, stargazing, corkscrewing, etc...

I have 1 male Spider and 3 females...none of them show any signs (although I know they have the problem). The second youngest did have a slight wobble but it seems to have gone away.

My 5 month old Bumblebee only shows a very slight wobble when feeding.

My 5 month old Butterbee shows a moderate wobble when it's feeding time or she's excited.

I've hatched several Spider clutches and have noticed some slight wobbling with some of the babies. Maybe 25% at most? Probably less than that as I'm just guessing.

And I don't even consider head tilting as an issue as I've seen other BP's tilt their head in a similiar manner as Spiders...I think I may have a slight head tilt myself...and it's never caused me a problem...:D

My spider male wobbles only when excited. Feeding and breeding cause his head to shake. Other than that, he is an excellent breeder (fathered 2 clutches for me this past season) and eats like a machine.

His spider offspring have wobbles too. The two spiders he produced both wobble when excited. The spinner he produced wobbles quite a bit, and is a slow starter, but I don't see the wobble being a problem.

My friend's spider female has a very slight head tilt and I saw her head shake during feeding day.

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Originally Posted by sho220

That statement is kind of misleading. I believe all spiders (and spider mixes) are affected by some kind of neurological thing, but to varying degrees...from almost nothing noticeable to corkscrewing. To say they all wobble is untrue. To say they all have the problem that could lead to wobbling is more accurate. And a "head tilt" is not a wobble. It's a head tilt. It is part of the problem that causes wobbling, head tilting, stargazing, corkscrewing, etc...

I have 1 male Spider and 3 females...none of them show any signs (although I know they have the problem). The second youngest did have a slight wobble but it seems to have gone away.

My 5 month old Bumblebee only shows a very slight wobble when feeding.

My 5 month old Butterbee shows a moderate wobble when it's feeding time or she's excited.

I've hatched several Spider clutches and have noticed some slight wobbling with some of the babies. Maybe 25% at most? Probably less than that as I'm just guessing.

And I don't even consider head tilting as an issue as I've seen other BP's tilt their head in a similiar manner as Spiders...I think I may have a slight head tilt myself...and it's never caused me a problem...:D

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I think the term "wobble" is just a general umbrella term for any neurological symptom displayed by an animal with the spider gene. Yes, there are spiders that do not wobble. Instead they have very slight variations of the neurological disorder like head tilting or not being able to right themselves right away if turned over (my male does this on occasion). ALL spiders have some sort of neurological disorder. How much is shows, varies.

The problem is, you have people that have these spiders that do not wobble (instead they have the variations of the neurological disorder that are not as noticable) and advertise them as such. Newcomers to the hobby that don't understand that a head tilt is still a neurological problem, will be more inclined to purchase spiders from that person that has "no wobble" spiders. And then they are disappointed when the offspring of that spider throws wobbly babies.

Again, ALL spiders have some form of a neurological problem. You may not see it as it could be the slightest head tilt, or it could be as bad as corkscrewing, but it's there. It might show up right after hatching, or it could show up in the last year of life, but ALL spiders have it. And a spider with a slight head tilt can still throw a spider with a corkscrew.

Our first female wobbles/corkscrews but she a garbage can at almost 3000 grams and around 3 years old. Last year was 2500ish grams and laid a perfect 10 egg clutch. Just got a new spider around 1400 grams and she does not seem to have it as bad but we will see when feeding day gets here. Personally it does not bother me spiders are awesome and as long as they can feed and live a happy life then who cares.


_____________
David B.
FEDEX Certified
D&D Reptiles

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I think the term "wobble" is just a general umbrella term for any neurological symptom displayed by an animal with the spider gene.

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and that's what confuses the newbs...:)

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences with keeping balls with the spider mutation. I believe that this is the best way to learn about the animals we keep and how to care for them better in the future!

my bumblebee only wobbles sometimes when he's wandering around his enclosure

My spider:

Great eater
Never noticed a wobble
Does do the head upside down thing ever once in awhile
Very rarely I will go in my reptile room and see him laying with his belly in the air, but only twice in over a year did I ever see this...

All of these things would not prevent me from wanting to own another one.

I've noticed that my spider, V, wobbles a little bit too. I think it's cute and it feels weird when he does it across exposed skin.

My bumblebee wobbles and corkscrews so much that it's painful to watch at times.
I started to think it was something worse like ibd but, I recently watched some videos of other spiders that wobble as much as mine.
The only time he seems to calm down is after he's had a meal.

My bumble bee wobbles a little but not to bad but he does go up side down more than ive seen any snake lol

ALL spiders wobble. I thought this was set in stone like 5 years ago? Not only that, so do all their combinations! I love how people stick up for the wobbly lil suckers tho. I love em, they are my best eaters and breeders.

You really have to look to see the wobble in mine. Only noticable while handling. Even then you have to look for it. And he is an eating machine. Never refused a meal. Ever.

my girlfriend loves it when my bumblebee wobbles. i'm 100% sure she actually prefers it. she calls it "air dancing"

sometimes she'l be watching him and i'll hear "nice moves!"http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/ima...ilies/roll.gif

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ALL spiders wobble. I thought this was set in stone like 5 years ago?

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Maybe all spiders and combos have the propensity to wobble, but not all do actually wobble.

I breed an almost 4 yr old bee that has absolutely zero wobble, no head tilt, nothing in anyway that shows any neurological issues and she produced nothing but solid no wobble hatchlings, "so far".
That's not to say the hatchlings will not wobble eventually because there is no guarantee.
I have raised a male spider that can corkscrew with the best of them, he didn't wobble for 8 months of his life, and then slowly but surely he's gotten worse and worse.

The only thing set in stone is death and taxes...:P

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

The only thing set in stone is death and taxes...:P

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if you're smart just death

http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/ima...ilies/grad.gif

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I think the term "wobble" is just a general umbrella term for any neurological symptom displayed by an animal with the spider gene.

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Interestingly, this is not unique to snakes. In both dogs and horses, animals born with a certain type of ataxia are often called "wobblers" or said to have "wobbler syndrome."

There are better, more accurate terms for the various causative disorders in these species (ie, cervical vertebral stenosis, etc.), but the umbrella term "wobbler" persists.

I think that a better name for what we see might be "Spider ball python neurologic syndrome" (at least until we can pinpoint a more specific cause), but that isn't as easy to say as "wobbler" :rolleyes:

... In my little group:

Bumblebee male -- Has not changed since I got him as a small adult: will occasionally spin if stressed; may miss the prey on the first strike. Eats great and breeds like a machine.

Spider female -- No clinical signs at all until approximately three years old and >1500 grams or so. Now she spins, corkscrews, head-tilts, strikes inaccurately, etc. She went from being totally asymptomatic to the most affected spider morph I own. Still eats great, and always has.

Spinner male -- Mild head tilt/"off" acting when I first got him. Now at 1000 grams has no signs whatsoever. Eats like crazy.

... Both bee and spider will stop acting "neuro" if interrupted. Sometimes it seems as if the spinning is voluntary. I don't really know what to make of it.

So, for my limited sample size, I would say that yes, the vast majority of spiders and their crosses exhibit some degree of neurologic disease, and the vast majority of spiders have an excellent appetite and, interestingly, seem to thrive in captivity.

... I could talk all day about this subject, but I'll spare you, ha!

Of all the spiders I've had, none of them show signs of wobble. I notice only a very slight head shake when getting ready to strike at food, but I have noticed that in other morphs as well. I have seen zero in my animals.

I will say, in my opinion, spiders are probably one of the most prolific and hardy ball morphs out there. They are bullet-proof.

So far I've not seen any wobble in my female spider. I didn't want to purchase a spider or work with spider combos because of all the threads I'd read on the issue but she was actually a won by my little girl in a raffle drawing last year and we really like her. I've kept watch over her looking for any wobble or odd behavior but so far there's been nothing out of the ordinary and she's a terrific eater. Maybe things will change as she gets closer to breeding size and we'll start noticing some neuro issues. I don't know. We'll just have to wait and see I guess but for now she's no different than any of the rest of our balls. :)

My spider's wobble started as a moderate wobble/corkscrew as a young snake but has become very subtle as she has matured. Now I rarely even see her wobble, much less corkscrew :gj:

Most of my spiders wobble, a few don't.
Some of my womas wobble too, some don't.
I don't worry about it overly much, as it seems to come and go with age and stress in many cases. A woma female with no wobble who was fully mature, developed one after a move.

Whatever causes the spider-webbing pattern which both spider and woma share, it must also cause this neurological or inner ear issue.

No big deal--it doesn't appear to cause them any distress. Real impairment from it is pretty rare.

Does anyone have a spider that is a poor eater? From what I have read of people's experience it seems the wobble may actually have a positive benefit in making them robust eaters.


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any spider or spider combo i have owned has had a wobble. some so slight you dont really notice it unless your looking for it and some that will preform a dance especially during feeding.

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

Does anyone have a spider that is a poor eater? From what I have read of people's experience it seems the wobble may actually have a positive benefit in making them robust eaters.


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My spider drives me nuts with her "I'm eating!! ... psyche, I'm just gonna spit it out" behavior. She was a great eater until summer last year, and now she's the biggest pain in the butt to get eating. Her feeding RESPONSE is excellent though, so maybe mine's a unique case.

Then again, her wobble is only noticeable when she eats. Right before she strikes she vibrates her head some, and as she finishes eating she'll swing her head and neck around wildly. Scared the beejebus out of me when I first saw her do it, I thought she was choking or something. But she was fine. :)

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

Does anyone have a spider that is a poor eater? From what I have read of people's experience it seems the wobble may actually have a positive benefit in making them robust eaters.


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I do. I purchased a male bumblebee het VPI AX that I've had to assist feed. He will not start, even on ASF's. Been trying to get him to eat for several months now. All of my other spiders eat very well and in fact, switched over on the first try to f/t. So as a general rule, yes all of my spiders eat very well. But there is always that exception.

My male spider eats like a garbage disposal. He's also a funny guy. He likes to lay with his head turned sideways and he'll corkscrew in the air when handled.

My female bumblebee is a picky eater. She will not eat unless she's in her hide with her head poking out, and you haven't disturbed her in any way the last 1-2 days. When I first had her in a 6 qt tub (no hide) she wouldn't eat at all. I made her a ghetto hide (out of cardboard) and she started eating. She does not appear to have any symptoms of wobble. Her strikes are always very precise and she doesn't shake when preparing to strike. I don't hold her much because she stresses easily so I dunno if she dances in the air.

Oh, most of my spiders are great eaters, but I get poor starters/poor feeders every once in a while, among the hatchlings. I think it's less common in them than in some other morphs. Then too, it may be lineage.

I think it's important to selectively breed animals with robust appetites. If you have a poor starter that you just have to keep, be sure to pair only with good eaters.
We are responsible for what captive ball pythons become. Virtually all of these traits (feeding response, appetite, adult size, temperament) may be heritable, so it is best to assume they all are.

I don't think the non-feeding issue is Spider related. Pastels are horrible feeders in my experience. They tend to be the most off and on feeders......mostly off. So if you have a bee that seems this way, it's probably due to the pastel gene not the spider. Feed them as much as they'll eat when they eat.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I don't think the non-feeding issue is Spider related. Pastels are horrible feeders in my experience. They tend to be the most off and on feeders......mostly off. So if you have a bee that seems this way, it's probably due to the pastel gene not the spider. Feed them as much as they'll eat when they eat.

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I agree that pastels are bad feeders, my super goes off feed the most and I've never been able to get her to eat rats, my bee on the other hand knocks back rats all day thanks to the appetite characteristic of the spider gene

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I don't think the non-feeding issue is Spider related. Pastels are horrible feeders in my experience. They tend to be the most off and on feeders......mostly off. So if you have a bee that seems this way, it's probably due to the pastel gene not the spider. Feed them as much as they'll eat when they eat.

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nice to know that I am not the only one that has noticed this about the pastels.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I don't think the non-feeding issue is Spider related. Pastels are horrible feeders in my experience. They tend to be the most off and on feeders......mostly off. So if you have a bee that seems this way, it's probably due to the pastel gene not the spider. Feed them as much as they'll eat when they eat.

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Both my pastels I have had never refused a meal except once the female did because she was in shed on her feeding day. My spider has refused twice once because he was in shed and another I have no idea what his deal was. But he had the tiniest bit of wobbling going on when he strikes but hes only missed a rat once which is shocking. When I first got him I let him explore outside he got excited and his head was bobbing up and down quite a bit but whenever I hold him or hes exploring my room he doesnt show a wobble at all.

I haven't noticed my pastels to have significantly better or worse feeding habits than my other BPs. Very few of my ball pythons eat as reliably ravenously as my bloods or Burms.

... Though I will say that out of my whole ball collection, far and away my best and most reliable feeders are my wild-types. :rolleyes: