Zebra bees.....making them...

So my gf and I are getting ready to have a serious sit down and talk about what we would like to produce our first breeding season once we get more bps. I'm hoping to have about $10k to drop on about 5-7 high end females and combos. The males will come later on. She is dead set on one combo and that is the zebra bee (axanthic bumblebee). Here is my question. What would be the best way to get there?

1.) Pastel het ax X Spider het ax
2.) Pastel het ax X bumblebee het ax

The second would cost a bit more but there would be a chance of super pastel axys.

What is YOUR opinion?

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If you are going with a Pastel het Axanthic male, I would pick up Pastel het, Spider het, SuperPastel het, and BumbleBee het Axanthic females.

You would be better off picking up a BumbleBee het Axanthic, and then just getting Pastel het, and Super Pastel het Ax. females.

Otherwise, I strongly suggest picking up a male Pastel Axanthic, instead of the Pastel het Ax.

Wow over my head. I totally didn't even think of full on pastel axanthic and spider axanthics. That would pretty much ensure I hit the odds.....I'm really thinking spider axanthic and pastel axanthic pairing now. Thanks!

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I'm sure you will have a few responses to this query, but the first thing I'd do is find a breeder working with good quality axanthics. I believe (but could be mistaken on this) that bailey reptiles, with the moniker muddoc on this site, is one of the most prolific axanthics breeders and works primarily with the VPI line, which are the best axanthics in my opinion. if I'm not conflating different businesses, they have some amazing axanthic combinations. I also know Justin Kobylka is working with a newer and darker black axanthic. check out his website to see if the more pigmented version appeals to you (or I guess more importantly, to your girlfriend). both of those lines appear to eschew the unfortunate 'browning out' that often happens with axanthics. if you really have that much disposable income earmarked for ball python breeding projects, I'd look to acquire your founding stock from either of them or someone else with a comparable reputation.

once you settle on a breeder, I'd start with bees or spiders that are het for axanthic. it's probably the cheapest route since quality visual axanthics still go for about the same as bumblebees. but with that kind of purse, your options aren't too limited. perhaps look for a female pastel het axanthic first, get her up to size, and a few years later you can pick up a spider het. you know the breeding formula. how you arrive at the end result is up to you.

in any case, I hope you don't invest too much too quickly. and I'm not just referring to a monetary investment. you've already had the unfortunate experience of beginning a collection only to later realize it was not compatible with your living situation. certainly not blaming your mother, as it's her house after all, but I hope your next investment is a lasting one.

Well, I would steer clear of het to het breedings. The offspring will not bring as much return as producing 100% hets. Not to mention you could breed for years trying to hit your desired combo and not make it. As you can see below the results are much better using at least on visual. Your 10k will dwindle fast though. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Here are you odds for Pastel het Axanthic x Bumblebee het Axanthic...

Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

Here is your odds with one visuals, Pastel Axanthic x Bumblebee het Axanthic...


Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

I'm going to be breeding my Bumblebee x axanthic this year in hopes of producing a het axanthic bee, pastel het axanthic and spider het axanthic.. I'm really looking forward to pastel and spider axanthics can't go wrong with them either.Its a win win!


Good luck producing one of the nicer combos in my op.

If the goal is axanthic bees or killer bees, I would spend the extra that you would spend on a super pastel het axanthic, and buy a pastel axanthic(female proba)bly to a spider het axanthic male. This does 2 things it doubles your odds of hitting an axanthic bee, and if you produce a male axanthic bee gives you a female pastel axanthic to breed son back to mother to have a one in 8 on axanthic killer bees. It sounds silly but on my projects I will buy visual females and if I cant afford visual males, I will buy a het I can easily replace the male in one year and have a visual breeding size male ASAP, females take so long to raise up that buy visual male and het female, that adds 2 years to a second generation project while females grow up.....

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Originally Posted by Emilio

I'm going to be breeding my Bumblebee x axanthic this year in hopes of producing a het axanthic bee, pastel het axanthic and spider het axanthic.. I'm really looking forward to pastel and spider axanthics can't go wrong with them either.Its a win win!


Good luck producing one of the nicer combos in my op.

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This is basically what I'm doing next year. Breeding my male axanthic to my female bee, get a het, and then go for the axanthic bee the following year....

Not to derail, but I hate the term "zebra bee." Just saying :)

Goodluck on your axanthic project! I am also trying to get axanthic combos!

The purchases won't be being made until me and my gf move out and have a place that allows snakes amd a multitude of them. We will both be LPNs by then so we will be sitting better money wise then now. We are just getting our ducks in a row so we don't halfarse it when the time comes. You can never do to much research or plan to far ahead. ;)

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Hi,

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

This is basically what I'm doing next year. Breeding my male axanthic to my female bee, get a het, and then go for the axanthic bee the following year....

Not to derail, but I hate the term "zebra bee." Just saying :)

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If the only axanthic you have is the male you'll need to wait 3 years for the female bee het axanthic to get up to breeding size before you can make a visual axanthic bee won't you?

Or do you have a female axanthic/ het axanthic as well?


dr del

If it is going to be a while before you start buying these snakes, let me give you some other ideas. I personally think the future of the axanthic projects all the way around is with the fire gene. I would consider a trio, an axanthic pastel male, and a fire het axanthic female and a spider het axanthic female.....Preferably all from different breeders giving you a more diverse genetics (the wont be as closely related together)

everyone has the same complaint with axanthics the dont hold that baby color, I think the fire gene will keep that baby silver and black and prevent brown out.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,



If the only axanthic you have is the male you'll need to wait 3 years for the female bee het axanthic to get up to breeding size before you can make a visual axanthic bee won't you?

Or do you have a female axanthic/ het axanthic as well?


dr del

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She has a pair of vpi axanthics.

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Originally Posted by jjmitchell

If it is going to be a while before you start buying these snakes, let me give you some other ideas. I personally think the future of the axanthic projects all the way around is with the fire gene. I would consider a trio, an axanthic pastel male, and a fire het axanthic female and a spider het axanthic female.....Preferably all from different breeders giving you a more diverse genetics (the wont be as closely related together)

everyone has the same complaint with axanthics the dont hold that baby color, I think the fire gene will keep that baby silver and black and prevent brown out.

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Good theory. Vpi seems to hold its color best. After seeing a picture of axanthic clowns I'm liking the whole axanthic idea! ;)

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Originally Posted by jjmitchell

I think the fire gene will keep that baby silver and black and prevent brown out.

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It works for regular morphs, so it is logical......would be awesome for us Axanthic lovers.

Wait, if the Fire thing would work wouldn't going with Enchi (which is even better than Fires at it) be even better??.....Bailey has a couple awesome visual Ax Enchi's (if you have $5k).

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,



If the only axanthic you have is the male you'll need to wait 3 years for the female bee het axanthic to get up to breeding size before you can make a visual axanthic bee won't you?

Or do you have a female axanthic/ het axanthic as well?


dr del

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I have a female axanthic as well. Sorry, forgot to make that clear.

The VPI line is more common then the other lines, but I would not say that it is better.
There are good and bad representations of every line of Axanthic, just as there are with every other mutation.

John Dague is way ahead in the TSK Axanthic BumbleBee project, and is already working the Fire, Cinnamon, and probably a couple of other genes into it as well.

I am also working with a TSK Axanthic Bee project, and have seen, purchased, and produced, some Axanthic and Axanthic combos that look much better then comparable animals produced with the other lines of Axanthic.

There is a Jolliff line Axanthic Spider with a Reduced Pattern listed right now, that is one of the nicest Ax. Spiders that I have seen.

Selective breeding is the key.

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Originally Posted by rjk890

The VPI line is more common then the other lines, but I would not say that it is better.
There are good and bad representations of every line of Axanthic, just as there are with every other mutation.

John Dague is way ahead in the TSK Axanthic BumbleBee project, and is already working the Fire, Cinnamon, and probably a couple of other genes into it as well.

I am also working with a TSK Axanthic Bee project, and have seen, purchased, and produced, some Axanthic and Axanthic combos that look much better then comparable animals produced with the other lines of Axanthic.

There is a Jolliff line Axanthic Spider with a Reduced Pattern listed right now, that is one of the nicest Ax. Spiders that I have seen.

Selective breeding is the key.

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The reason the VPI line gets the credit it does is of how well they keep their color, wheras most of the others tend to brown out worse.

Nah my bad. :oops:

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

I have a female axanthic as well. Sorry, forgot to make that clear.

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If I'd read your signature I'd have noticed the 1.1 axanthics. :rolleyes:


dr del

Moving out and having 10+k for snakes only? I'm jealous. Wish I had the money for that :mad:

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

Moving out and having 10+k for snakes only? I'm jealous. Wish I had the money for that :mad:

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Same. Jealous of the people who have actual plans for decent full-time jobs. Im stuck at college and headed absolutely nowhere :O We'll see how it goes though, Im happy with my current situation :cool:

As for suggestions, I agree that if you are working with recessives, definitely get a visual x het pairing to produce better odds, it will be a bit more expensive but definitely worth it. Het x het gives too many PH's and 100% het is always much easier to sell.

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

Moving out and having 10+k for snakes only? I'm jealous. Wish I had the money for that :mad:

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With all due respect to Kevin, I don't think he realizes how long it'll take to have 10k to spend on snakes, with all of the other expenses he hasn't had to deal with yet :)

However, with that being said, I'm pretty confident Kevin will do everything in his power once he moves out to get there.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

With all due respect to Kevin, I don't think he realizes how long it'll take to have 10k to spend on snakes, with all of the other expenses he hasn't had to deal with yet :)

However, with that being said, I'm pretty confident Kevin will do everything in his power once he moves out to get there.

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And with all due respect to you, he may have 10+k sitting in a savings just for snakes..... You never know who has what.

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

And with all due respect to you, he may have 10+k sitting in a savings just for snakes..... You never know who has what.

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Actually, Kevin is a friend of mine, and I know exactly what situation he is in. I wish him much luck.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Actually, Kevin is a friend of mine, and I know exactly what situation he is in. I wish him much luck.

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Well I stand corrected.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

With all due respect to Kevin, I don't think he realizes how long it'll take to have 10k to spend on snakes, with all of the other expenses he hasn't had to deal with yet :)

However, with that being said, I'm pretty confident Kevin will do everything in his power once he moves out to get there.

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Yes jessica. I won't persay have $10k floating in my pocket right when I move out, with the cost of everything else and going to nursing school saving will be the best thing. Once christmas has past I will once again be able to start putting money away. I say $10,000 but it may be less than that. As we know things change. That's just a general number for some good quality single and double morphs. The first snakes we are hoping to get include.

A phantom, specter, bee het ax, more axanthic stuff, and most likely some clown stuff. I really would like to make a bumblebee clown or an asystole at some point. I may include a het red too.

I actually really like the stocking you have jess and may copy some of what you have, if you don't take offense to that. Everyone has to start somewheres and all I care about is doing what I love. Money really isn't something that should matter. I could be a billionaire, but if I don't have any snakes in my life id be miserable.

Thanks for all the comments and ideas.

And thank you for the support jessica its really appreciated.

Kevin.


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Originally Posted by kevinb

Yes jessica. I won't persay have $10k floating in my pocket right when I move out, with the cost of everything else and going to nursing school saving will be the best thing. Once christmas has past I will once again be able to start putting money away. I say $10,000 but it may be less than that. As we know things change. That's just a general number for some good quality single and double morphs. The first snakes we are hoping to get include.

A phantom, specter, bee het ax, more axanthic stuff, and most likely some clown stuff. I really would like to make a bumblebee clown or an asystole at some point. I may include a het red too.

I actually really like the stocking you have jess and may copy some of what you have, if you don't take offense to that. Everyone has to start somewheres and all I care about is doing what I love. Money really isn't something that should matter. I could be a billionaire, but if I don't have any snakes in my life id be miserable.

Thanks for all the comments and ideas.

And thank you for the support jessica its really appreciated.

Kevin.


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No offense taken - it's a hobby :)

I'll probably have some cool stuff for ya by then too.

Sweet deal! Thanks for understanding. :)

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