Dumeril or RTB?

Greetings everyone!

I'm looking to expand my collection by adding either a Dumeril or a RTB. However, I've read through several different care sheets, and would rather hear from those who currently own/have owned/ or have experience with these breeds. I prefer a docile snake, as ball pythons are all I've owned. But, in your (collective your) opinion, which breed is more docile/easier to own?

One thing I love about the RTBs is that they have some color variation. I love Albinos. :)

ive never owned a dumeril but my columbian is absolutly great in every sense. she is active, when im holding her shes always checking stuff out and is super curious about everything. also, any time i try to set her down or put her back, she fights with me, like all she wants to do is be handled all day. if she on the floor, all i have to do to pick her up is put my hand next to her, and she crawls up my arm, its kinda funny. so attitude wise, shes great, she looks mean, but is super sweet, and seems terribly smart. i can even reach in her cage with my hand reaking like mouse and she wont bite, she'll smell alot though.

care wise, the conditions for red tails and bp's are pretty much the same, 79-83 cool end, and 89-94 warm end, with 50-60% humidity and 70% during shed. you also migh tnotice that they dont use their hides nearly as often as BP's, my bp is always hiding, while my boa hides maybe 1/3 the time at most. the biggest difference is the size, a columbian (BCI) can get 5-7ft male, and 7-9ft female (from what ive heard), i have no idea about dumerils though, but either way, im sure you will be happy with a boa in your collection

Dumerils Boas are extremely docile snakes. You'll find more variety of color and pattern with RTBs than Dumerils. In general, Dumerils Boas don't get as large as RTBs and don't require quite as hot temperatures. Both snakes make great pets. Here is a Dumerils Boa Care Sheet.

Another species you may want to consider are Brazilian Rainbow Boas. They're typically 5-7 feet long with more slender bodies than RTBs and Dumerils. Here is a Beginner's Guide To Brazilian Rainbow Boas.


Here is a picture of my Female Dumerils Boa Cleopatra:
http://www.moonlightboas.com/images/...-20100505e.jpg


Here is a picture of my Male Brazilian Rainbow Boa Apollo:
http://www.moonlightboas.com/images/...-20101209a.jpg

Thank you both! Eventually I would like to have both species, but it is just not feasible at the moment. Especially given the housing requirements for such large snakes. I currently have a "snake room" in my house, that houses my two ball pythons. It is somewhat more temperature controlled than the rest of the house in order to make them more comfortable. So temps and humidity shouldn't be an issue. But just out of curiosity, what size enclosure do you have for your boas? And do you have to keep them on a stand of some sort in order to accommodate an UTH?

I have carpet in that room, and so a UTH for an enclosure on the floor is out of the question, and given the size of the typical adult boa enclosure, I'm guessing I'll have to put it on the floor.

@Moonlight: Thank you for the caresheet. Your boas are beautiful! I really love the large, heavy body of the Dumeril. You wouldn't possibly have any clutches on the way in the near future would you? :)

While I do not have a Dumerils (yet, lol), I do have a columbian boa and I absolutely LOVE her! She is incredibly curious, very sweet, highly intelligent, and loves to be handled and just hang out with me. What could be better?? Of course, I have heard that both Dumerils and Rainbows can be the same way. I personally think you'd be happy with any of these 3.

Male BCI will get about 5-7 feet and the females around 7-9. The rainbows will be about the same but will have a more slender body. The Dumerils will top out at about 7ft for a large female, but they are the most heavy bodied of the 3 so you're looking at about the same size for any of them unless you get a particularly large female BCI that pushes 10ft - that isn't likely, but it IS possible.

A proper enclosure would be a 4x2 cage for an adult of any of these 3. If you get a baby, it should be happy in a 20gal long for nearly it's entire first year so you'd have time to save for a larger enclosure if you went for a baby. I like this cage from PVC Cages. It is 48wx12tx24d and the perfect size for anything except the largest female BCIs. Also, if you order it with heat, it is a radient heat panel which is a marvelous way of heating from above. No UTHs! So you can set the cage directly on the floor.

Oh, by the way, all boas bear live young so they have "litters" not "clutches". ;):gj:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

A proper enclosure would be a 4x2 cage for an adult of any of these 3. If you get a baby, it should be happy in a 20gal long for nearly it's entire first year so you'd have time to save for a larger enclosure if you went for a baby. I like this cage from PVC Cages. It is 48wx12tx24d and the perfect size for anything except the largest female BCIs. Also, if you order it with heat, it is a radient heat panel which is a marvelous way of heating from above. No UTHs! So you can set the cage directly on the floor.
". ;):gj:

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I have been looking into these for about a week would you go with the 40 watt or 80?
and what about light?

Having had both (and rainbow boas) I would choose a RTB. Something about them I just love. More active too.

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Originally Posted by KigerTiger

@Moonlight: Thank you for the caresheet. Your boas are beautiful! I really love the large, heavy body of the Dumeril. You wouldn't possibly have any clutches on the way in the near future would you? :)

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Thanks for the compliment. I just sent you a PM. I have two 2010 Male Dumerils Boas available.

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Originally Posted by KigerTiger

Greetings everyone!

I'm looking to expand my collection by adding either a Dumeril or a RTB. However, I've read through several different care sheets, and would rather hear from those who currently own/have owned/ or have experience with these breeds. I prefer a docile snake, as ball pythons are all I've owned. But, in your (collective your) opinion, which breed is more docile/easier to own?

One thing I love about the RTBs is that they have some color variation. I love Albinos. :)

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Dumerils have color variations.
Some are brownish and others have a peachy/rosy hue.

http://file.walagata.com/w/the-salamander/dixie6.jpg

There's also a new "Orangeglow morph" that's just gorgeous!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku947jQQLdg

I don't have a RTB [yet...LOL] but I totally adore my new Dumerils.

i just got a colombian a couple weeks ago and shes definitely a lot different then my bps. i just ordered me a dumeril and she'll be her tomorrow so we'll see how she goes.

I'm not a fan of Dumeril boas, but I do have quite a few red-tails. I have some dwarf species and Colombians. Most of mine are very docile.

I've kept RTB's in the past and only have a limited time experience with my Dumerils as I just got them last month. My dums are about 3 years old. And the RTBs I had were from hatchlings.

RTB's temperment's are really nice. They're curious and active. Never had a feeding issue with them at all. They seem to be very intelligent.

So far my Dumerils at this age and in the limited time I've had them, are probably the most docile of temperments I've seen. Maybe it's just my two, and they're rescues of a sort. They're very gentle, very laid back lap snake. Or hair snake. One of them likes to tangle in my hair and lay in it for hours :rofl: As long as I'm still, they're still. When I get up and move around, they get nosey, then settle down again lol

I have no experience with BRB's at this point and hoping to get one from Paul his next litters :D

I guess it's going to depend upon what kind of snake you want. And active one, or a more mellow one. Both the RTB's and the Dumerils make great pets that are very easy to handle and maintain. RTB's are longer if it's a size issue.

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Originally Posted by Rogue628

I have no experience with BRB's at this point and hoping to get one from Paul his next litters :D

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I'm really excited for next year. My Dumerils have already started getting busy, and I'll begin pairing up my Brazilian Rainbow Boas in January :)

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Originally Posted by Thom Noble

I have been looking into these for about a week would you go with the 40 watt or 80?
and what about light?

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That's going to depend a bit on how warm your home/room is and how high the cage is. For a 4 ft long cage, if you go with only a 12" high cage, the 40 watt is probably enough. If you go with a 24" high, then I'd do the 80 watt. If you go with the 18", then look at the room temps and see. If in doubt, I would err on the side of caution and use the smaller wattage - these panels heat very efficiently.

I don't use a light with my boas. My GTP has a light, but mainly for my convenience - I like to see him! ;) But the snakes really don't need the light. :gj:

In retrospect, I kind of wish I had gotten a rainbow boa and another hognose, instead of my two Dumeril's....I wanted to breed them to keep them in the pet trade, and help ban out imports. Did a lot of research on them, before i got them.

I got both my female and my male on August 6, 2011, at a reptile show from two different sources. The male has yet to eat! He's about 15 inches, and hasn't lost any thickness. But he and the female are COLD all the time! They feel cold to me anyway. They love to chill out on the cold end of their enclosures and peek out at me. They love to burrow in the substrate. I've since learned that they shouldn't be housed on coconut husk, because they tend to eat their substrate randomly. I have found aspin hanging out of the females mouth before. She is as long as my arm, and has eaten quite a few times. Even a rat once. They are both friendly, and docile, however don't really like to be held, though they will sit for hours under your shirt making you COLD since they are cold *lol*

I have left food overnight in the female's tank, since she actually prefers to eat if i'm not there, and she has eaten it.
I prefer to feed them outside where they wont' eat their bedding, but they do it even when they are not eating *rolls eyes*

Anyway, my ball pythons spend half their time on their UTH, the other half on the cool end. The jungle/coastal carpet python stays on the hot end all the time, and is always about 90 degrees. The hognoses roam around, the corn snake stays mostly on the UTH or roams, and the Dumeril's are ALWAYS on the cold end. The male is always hiding somewhere, and the female is always on the move, snaking through pipes or weaving in and out of hides. Both will burrow under the aspin and peek at me.

Anyway, they are very nice, and i do still want to breed them someday. They are just more for show, and i prefer the healthy eaters who don't mind being held. I'm disappointed both of them are so kind of shy! They are cute when peeking though, and they are always doing that. Hiding except for their heads.

Both of mine have a very bright copper tone. They both have the black, and browns and multi-color. Rainbows are beautiful with the iridescence, but the dumeril's can have a great glow as well, though like i said it is very bright copper.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but @Missy King, Dumerils are ambush preditors - that's why they burrow. Not because they are necessarily shy. Are you feeding live or f/t? They also sometimes like a bit cooler temps. What's the hotspot temp set at? It might be warm enough that they are trying to avoid it rather than make use of it. Lowering it a few degrees might tempt them to use it. These are just a few thoughts! I do not have a dumerils - I've just researched them a lot because I was interested in getting one and these are some things I took note of. Hope it is helpful! ;)

Evenstar beat me to it. I'd like to know a bit more how you have your Dumerils cage set up. The temperatures and a picture would be good. Dumerils Boas are usually great eaters as long as their needs are met.

It's interesting that many people don't realize how iridescent Dumerils can be. Here is a picture of Cleopatra showing off her colors.

http://www.moonlightboas.com/images/...-20100724a.jpg

you can find a docile dumeril or RTB. just go to an expo and handle a bunch of them

My dumeril's have a pretty regular set up for their type...i just emphasize how cold they are because i found it so suprising, and it's one of those things that don't come across well in research *lol* they do hunt, and slither around, and my female is hilarious actually with all her peeking and waiting for prey. The male is just not interested in food. He seems healthy.
I've had a BP with a higher metabolism and who stayed warmer go for 4 months before waking up one day and deciding he was ravenous. I have three male skanes, and each one is a terrible eater. All the females are like garbage disposals *lol*

Ambient temp is about 70-75, hot spit is 85. Humidity is low, i add more when they are shedding (male has shed once, female twice).

We named them Tanzy (Tansanite) and Rusty. They are iridescent. They are more active at night and i like watching them, but they -are- shy, compared to my 9 other types who mostly like./tolerate being handled and will eat as soon as i show them food. I read they actually don't really like being handled though, so i haven't tried to push it. I am very hands on though, so it was just disappointing to find they prefer not to be. I don't want to upset them.
I guess i'm trying to say that i feel they are more for show snakes, and i like a lot of activity. They do sit and wait in ambush a lot *lol*

To be honest, I've never interacted with a dumerils that didn't seem to enjoy being handled. Every one I've been around (and I've known several - that's why I wanted one) has been quite content and happy to be handled and lounge on a lap or two. They aren't as active and maybe not quite as curious as red tails, but I never got the impression they didn't like handling. And they've all, including the males, been voracious eaters.

BUT, as I said, I don't own one myself. Maybe Paul from Moonlight will shed more light on this for us.... :gj:

My Dum is a sweet and easy snake to care for and handle. They are not busy like RTBs. They are kinda like lap-snakes. Mine sits in my lap and watches TV with me in the evenings- very content to just chill. I have read that young ones can be hard to get started feeding but I doubt you would purchase any snake that wasn't feeding well. Mine is six and she eats like a pig. She is 6'5" and weights 15.2 pounds. I have her as a rescue and you can see some scale damage on her, but Leela is a trouper. She was very easy to rehabilitate. I have had both BCCs and Dums. I don't know much about BCIs but I really love my Dum! PM me if you have any specific questions about them.

P.S. A Brazilian Rainbow Boa is my next purchase!
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...0/img_1304.jpg

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Dumerils have color variations.
Some are brownish and others have a peachy/rosy hue.

http://file.walagata.com/w/the-salamander/dixie6.jpg

There's also a new "Orangeglow morph" that's just gorgeous!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku947jQQLdg

I don't have a RTB [yet...LOL] but I totally adore my new Dumerils.

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That morph, is by far, one of the most beautiful snakes I've seen. Thank you for sharing that! :D

I checked out that video, and it's a very nice looking baby. However that isn't a new Dumerils morph. Dumerils are born a lighter color and generally darken slightly as they grow. It appears that the belly is orange/pink on that baby because it's getting ready to shed. You'll also notice that the breeder hasn't posted an updated video in almost 2 years. I have seen some actual Dumerils morphs, but most of them are fairly uncommon.


Here is an example of one of the babies I produced taken right after her first shed.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7...eolaz1003a.jpg

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Originally Posted by MoonlightBoas

I checked out that video, and it's a very nice looking baby. However that isn't a new Dumerils morph. Dumerils are born a lighter color and generally darken slightly as they grow. It appears that the belly is orange/pink on that baby because it's getting ready to shed. You'll also notice that the breeder hasn't posted an updated video in almost 2 years. I have seen some actual Dumerils morphs, but most of them are fairly uncommon.


Here is an example of one of the babies I produced taken right after her first shed.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7...eolaz1003a.jpg

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Thats a great looking little guy! I have a hard time picturing them small- not after being around my chunky girl:P Gotta love babies!

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Originally Posted by MoonlightBoas

I checked out that video, and it's a very nice looking baby. However that isn't a new Dumerils morph. Dumerils are born a lighter color and generally darken slightly as they grow. It appears that the belly is orange/pink on that baby because it's getting ready to shed. You'll also notice that the breeder hasn't posted an updated video in almost 2 years. I have seen some actual Dumerils morphs, but most of them are fairly uncommon.


Here is an example of one of the babies I produced taken right after her first shed.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7...eolaz1003a.jpg

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Wow! :O

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Originally Posted by Cendalla

Thats a great looking little guy! I have a hard time picturing them small- not after being around my chunky girl:P Gotta love babies!

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That's one of the advantages of breeding. I'm lucky enough to get to watch them grow up from babies. I was actually able to get some video of Cleopatra giving birth. Here is a video of a Dumerils Boa Giving Birth 1. I have a few more videos of the birth and of babies breaking out of their egg sacs on my website.

That video is awesome Paul!! :gj:

I didn't read through all the posts in this thread, so this question may have been asked...but since the dumerils are ambush hunters and like to burrow, do they need to be hook trained? Just wouldn't want to get tagged by a big adult while digging around in the substrate looking for her....:O

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Originally Posted by DMTWI

I didn't read through all the posts in this thread, so this question may have been asked...but since the dumerils are ambush hunters and like to burrow, do they need to be hook trained? Just wouldn't want to get tagged by a big adult while digging around in the substrate looking for her....:O

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Thats also a good thing to bring up. Mine doesn't need a hook. I can reach right in and grab her. She doesn't have anything to burrow under. I have her in a front opening enclosure and lay down the blue Scotts shop towels (really absorbent). I have a cat litter pan that has a corner cut off (with the sharp edges melted smooth) and flipped upside down. Its not beautiful but she is comfortable. She curls up in that and watches the world outside. I tried substrate (of all kinds) when first got her but she never went under it.

She does have a VERY strong feed response. She knows there is a rat close when I step into the room. I feed with long tongs because she hits it hard. I'm often left with a tail swinging without the rat! You know she's wanting food too because she sits up and her little stubby tail lifts up and swings back and forth like a puppy.

She's pretty relaxed about everything but she is six years old. A baby would probably take some care in handling. Most snakes do seem to calm down as they get larger/older. I don't imagine hook training would hurt if you wanted to but it isn't an issue for us.

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Originally Posted by MoonlightBoas

Evenstar beat me to it. I'd like to know a bit more how you have your Dumerils cage set up. The temperatures and a picture would be good. Dumerils Boas are usually great eaters as long as their needs are met.

It's interesting that many people don't realize how iridescent Dumerils can be. Here is a picture of Cleopatra showing off her colors.

http://www.moonlightboas.com/images/...-20100724a.jpg

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That is what I kept [unsuccessfully] trying to capture with my pix.

Thanks!! :D

My male Pastel BP and my 2 100% het for Clown females have extreme iridescence on their dark areas, too.

Does that "mean" anything in particular?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMTWI

I didn't read through all the posts in this thread, so this question may have been asked...but since the dumerils are ambush hunters and like to burrow, do they need to be hook trained? Just wouldn't want to get tagged by a big adult while digging around in the substrate looking for her....:O

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I agree with Cendalla. You shouldn't need a hook to handle a Dumerils Boa. They're typically extremely docile snakes. Babies like to burrow, but adults rarely do. When I pick them up, I just slide my hand under their body and lift them up. If a snake seem edgy, you can hold a hide or a tub lid or something between their head and your hand that's reaching in. A nervous Dumerils Boa is much more likely to try and crawl away than strike.

@Salamander
Photographing snakes is very challenging. It's nearly impossible to capture their full color. Snakes usually look better in person than they do in pictures. A snake's iridescence is caused by by microscopic prisms in the surface of their scales. To capture the rainbow effect in a picture, you need your light source at just the right angle in relation to your camera. Just combine that with a little luck, and you may be able to get it on film.