The Spider Problem?

First of all, if this thread is in the wrong.place I apologize, it seems like a husbandry issue.

So...I've been planning to buy a spider for quite a long time. But the wobble issue has always swayed me away. Can someone explain to me what the "wobble" truly is. I've also read that if it gets bad enough then the only way for the BP to live is to tube feed.. can someone with a spider, or which has owned a spider explain in greater details of the wobble? I'd So Love to hear personal experiences.. thanks everyone

I have a little spider girl and they [spiders] definately have their own quirky personality! Mine has what I'd call a "little more than average" wobble but it's really only noticable when she's feeding or excited (she'll wobble from side to side or turn her head/neck upside down). It's nothing to worry yourself over, most (though I have heard of some not showing the wobble) spiders have it to a certain degree. Some will "corkscrew", but most that I know of don't do this or don't do it regularly. Mine never has.

I wouldn't let the wobble sway you away from owning one: they're very personable. I would find an older one (juvi) that has a known mild wobble if you're worried: talk to the owner/breeder beforehand on how extreme it is.

I've never heard of the feeding through a tube thing though, maybe someone can shed light on that for you.

Don't let the wobble scare you away from spiders, all of them have it, some just have it worse than others. I love my spider. She wobbles when shes stressed/excited but other than that its not too bad. Wobbling is when their head kinda shakes a little, and then some times (especially with severe wobbling) they get disoriented and their head goes upside down kinda. They just can't help it, I don't know how much they notice it though. My spider eats live and doesn't seem to have much trouble.

I've only very rarely heard of the wobble being so bad that the spider had to be euthanized. I've never heard of someone resorting to tube feeding just to keep one alive.

No one can say with 100% certainty what the "wobble" is. It seems to be some kind of neurological deficiency directly connected to the same gene that causes the spider morph. The degrees that it presents itself varies from the mildest extreme...nothing more than faint tilt of the head....to the most severe corkscrewing and inability to control body movements at all. Most spiders fall somewhere between these two extremes, and I'd say the mildest versions are far far more common than the most extreme versions.

The degree that an individual spider shows these signs can also vary. Some babies with more significant wobbles will calm down as they mature and show less signs. Some babies that show no signs as hatchlings may develop more visible signs of it as they grow. It can go either way. Some only show signs when in an excited or agitated state. (Feeding or defensive)

I have a lovely 09 spider with very minimal signs of wobble...just a slight tilt of her head sometimes.

One thing you will find out is the spider wobble is one thing no one can agree on, and it's usually half/half. I can only speak from my own personal opinion and experience with my spider girl.

I personally don't care about the wobble as long as the animal can eat, drink, and defecate normally. I see it more as a "quirk" than I do a "defect" I guess, although it is most likely a neurological defect like Judy mentioned. My little girl was 105 grams when I got her, and it seemed like every time she moved her head wobbled very slightly. As she's gotten bigger, I really only see it when it's feeding time, or if she thinks it's feeding time. It seems to be associated when she's "excited" about something. The anticipation of the rat seems to really set it off, however I don't think she's ever missed a strike. She lives a perfectly normal life, has the normal "special" personality a lot like other spiders. And she's certainly one of my favorites, and she's such a sweetheart and absolutely great with my son. I couldn't ask for a better snake, the wobble would never be enough to turn me off from this morph.

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Originally Posted by LGray23

the wobble would never be enough to turn me off from this morph.

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Wobbles are one thing, but how about corkscrewing?

I raised a spider male that didn't show any signs of wobbles until he hit 8-9 months old, before that not so much as a head shake or head tilt.
Now this male corkscrews so badly he misses half of his strikes ate food, although he eventually gets his meals :P

Just curious how people feel about a spider that can't hold his head straight, ever...

* I don't breed this male and never will, he's a pet only.

Can't really add much to what had been said, but I will say that regardless of severity of their wobble, I've never had a spider that wasn't a great eater, great breeder and had twice the personality of all our other balls. It took me a while to get used to it, it just seemed wrong, but my wife and I love our spiders!

First off I have more spider females in my collection than any other base morph. I love these girls you would be hard pressed to find a ball python with the feeding response of my female spiders. The wobble is usually not a big deal. In my opinion all spiders have wobble to some degree, but my animals only show any signs of wobble during feeding, one female will from time to time will invert her head a bit, but these problems are relatively minor. I would not rule out a champagne in my collection because they have similar problems I actually want a champagne BAD.

In my opinion the spider wobble is over exaggerated, but it is something you need to understand before buying one

My spider breeder has some slight head wobble and will corkscrew at times, but rarely misses food and eats live. I have others who miss as often or more and aren't spiders and don't wobble. He would breed a rope if you put him in with it, add to that he eats anything I throw at him, ASF, mice, rats and either live or F/T. Plus he is the most curious, responsive ball I own. Of all of them he loves to be held and loves to explore. His offspring have exibited minimal wobble and one out of 3 spider babies corkscrewed but all ate live ravenously. It seems to me that it is more often the males that are the more extreme examples of this "defect" Anyone else think there might be something to this?

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Originally Posted by MrBig

It seems to me that it is more often the males that are the more extreme examples of this "defect" Anyone else think there might be something to this?

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nope, I have seen as many female spiders wobble as males.
I have also seen a female spider combo that has no head wobble produce babies that wobble, don't let anyone tell you that you can make non-wobbling spiders just because the male or female doesn't wobble, it's just not something anyone can guarantee.

One thing about spiders that a few people touched on is their personality. My normal adult male will coil round my neck for hours and rarely move. My spider however slithers around and is much more interesting to handle. Yes all spiders have some form of wobble ( I was worried bout it too) but man are they a blast to have in your collection. They have more of the personality of a boa then a ball. LOVE EM! Oh and all morphs of spiders carry the wobble gene and he personality.

my spider does the full on corkscrew, he has no problems eating.

does anyone know if the intensity of the wobble is passed on in breeding?

I don't think the severity of the wobble is passed on, though the wobble is definitely passed on with any spider/spider morph.

I have a pair of spiders, my male barely wobbles while my female does have a head shaking thing going on, more when its feeding time than anything. I love spiders, and the morphs they make, and their wobble wouldn't deter me from owning one

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Originally Posted by jjmitchell

First off I have more spider females in my collection than any other base morph. I love these girls you would be hard pressed to find a ball python with the feeding response of my female spiders. The wobble is usually not a big deal. In my opinion all spiders have wobble to some degree, but my animals only show any signs of wobble during feeding, one female will from time to time will invert her head a bit, but these problems are relatively minor. I would not rule out a champagne in my collection because they have similar problems I actually want a champagne BAD.

In my opinion the spider wobble is over exaggerated, but it is something you need to understand before buying one

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this is the first I've heard of champagnes having a comparable neurological issue to spiders. I've heard of a few problems with them, but never that they have a wobble like spiders (and potentially womas). would you mind sharing your references, either in this thread or a pm? like you, champs are one of my favorite ball morphs, base or otherwise, and dave green is working with some amazing animals.

My male spider has a slight wobble, but hes my best feeder and breeder!
My female spider has no wobble at all, shes also a very good eater!

What gets me is how many people, especially breeders or those selling their spiders, swear that their spiders have no wobble. This is an instant red flag for me because ALL spiders wobble. I will not buy from someone who claims this. Some are more subtle than others or require excitement/stress to bring it to full effect, but they ALL do it. Also those who claim their spiders only throw no (or low) wobble babies. Bologna! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by wwmjkd

this is the first I've heard of champagnes having a comparable neurological issue to spiders. I've heard of a few problems with them, but never that they have a wobble like spiders (and potentially womas). would you mind sharing your references, either in this thread or a pm? like you, champs are one of my favorite ball morphs, base or otherwise, and dave green is working with some amazing animals.

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This is a thread from bush league breeders that is about a year old..... I read the entire thread and several people that have champagnes, including some of the first to produce them chime in with on the subject.http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...t=champ+wobble
I will pm the info to you as well just incase ;)

Wow... I never expected this many replies.... I can't possibly say individual comments to everyone, but thank you everyone. I asked this question Because I plan on purchasing a spider in February or March, and always hearing of "wobble" pushed me away... Thank you everyone, I know what my next morph will be. :)