Red Tail, Id Help?

A little over a month ago I was looking on CL and saw an ad for a RTB. Clicked on it and it said they had a RTB they were keeping for a friend who never came back to get it. Anyone who wants it come get it. So I called and talked to the people and they said he was aggressive and if I came to get it today I could just have it. I went to pick him up and they had him in a 10 gallon tank with a screen lid with books piled on top. He had no water, no bedding and of course no hide or heat pad. He was thin, in shed and just plain sad looking. Btw, this guy is probably around 4 to 5 foot long!

They didn't have anything for me to take him out with (hook or glove) so I just reached in and took him out. He was so weak he didn't even try to get away or strike. I put him in a 41quart tub to bring him home. When we got home I put him in a tub with water to help his shed and he stuck his head under and drank fora good 2 minutes straight. Not to my surprise I noticed large black mites crawling on my hands after handling him.

So after a month of treatments and baths and a few meals, he's starting to look better. I took a couple of pics while he was in his bath last night. Oh and I haven't seen any mites in the past two baths/bedding changes!

I've guessing this guy is a BCI:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...Ratties006.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...Ratties008.jpg

He pooped right after the last pic so I couldn't get any more...

Oh and if anyone has any advice on switching him to F/T I'd love to hear it! He's currently eat live and snubs his nose at a heated F/T, that or he tries to bite my hand(I use tongs!)

Also looking for any kind of ID on my other RTBs.
Here's the one that I got with the little ball python(shown the the BP pictures section)
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...camera2025.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...camera2030.jpg

And another little girl, she's got some nice pinks on her sides. This is the best picture that shows of her colors.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/.../snakes382.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/.../snakes374.jpg

The first and third one are definitely BCI's, the second in need a better head shot.

The first and second are for sure BCI, and I'd be willing to bet that the first is a Nicaraguan, or at least has some Nicaraguan in him. The second kind of makes me want to say almost BCL, but I'm not a boa expert so I'd want a second opinion on him.

to me, none of them look like BCC if that helps, idk how to id all the different boas, but the first one i'd say is BCI, maybe the other two are too, idk though so get more opinions, if you ask this at www.redtailboas.com you might get some better answers? at least more answers lol

Thanks for at least trying :) I'll check out the other site and see what they say and let ya'll know too! I figured that none were BCC, i'll have to take a look at the BCLs. Didn't think about anything besides BCI and BCC lol

Thanks Again!

They are all BCIs. BCL is Boa Constrictor Longicauda which is simply a "locality specific" BCI like nicaraguan or hog island. In other words, it is a subspecies. It's a little confusing..... :P

Your first male looks like possibly a nicaraguan. Here's a pretty good pic - Nicaraguan Boa. I think he looks very similar to this snake both in color and pattern.

I don't think your 2nd snake (the 1st female pictured) is a BCL. A notable feature on the BCL is their dark head and facial markings. Your snake's marking are quite light. It'll be interesting to see how she colors up as she gets older. She could be, but she could also be a normal columbian too.

We'd need to see more of snake #3 to take a guess with her. All I can see is her head and that doesn't tell me much. But I'd hazard a guess of normal columbian BCI - although she could be hypomelanistic, especially if she's that pink.

No matter what they are, they are all really nice boas! I especially like #2 - very cool pattern on her! And good for you for rescuing that boy - he's obviously much better off. :gj:

I'm seeing all normal Colombians: the first one being darker, the second having a cool pattern, and the third just being pinker but from the pics IMO not a hypo. All are very nice :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

They are all BCIs. BCL is Boa Constrictor Longicauda which is simply a "locality specific" BCI like nicaraguan or hog island. In other words, it is a subspecies. It's a little confusing..... :P

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If I understand your explanation correctly, that is not 100% true. The boa constrictor subspecies are as follows:
B. c. amarali
B.c. constrictor
B.c. imperator
B.c. longicauda
B.c. melanogaster
B.c. nebulosus
B.c. occidentalis
B. c. orophias
B.c. ortonii
B.c. sabogae

Longicauda is a separate subspecies and is not a "locality specific BCI". The Peru Longtail Boa is a locality specific BCL. While the Hog Island and the Nicaraguans are locality specific BCIs.

Here is a couple helpful links for more information about Boa Constrictor Longicauda with pictures:
http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/boas_long.htm
http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/boaco...torlongicauda/

For the OP, it is very difficult to determine what subspecies you have without breeding records. There has been a lot of cross breeding between subspecies and many boas on the market today cannot be identified as pure subspecies or localities. Nice looking boas though.

Thank you all for your responses.

As for the second, I don't think she's a BCL after looking at pictures and descriptions. i'm sure she's just a nice BCI with an interesting pattern.

It's nice to know the 2nd may be a Nicaraguan Boa (cross or otherwise) since he seems small to me. If he is a a Nic or cross then it make since that he's shorter than I thought he'd be for a 3 year old.

As for the last, she has a vet appointment coming up later next week (Herp vet is only there one day a week). She's developed a squishy bulge in lower mid section. She eats and poops fine but I'm not sure what this is. I'll see about getting her out later tonight for a quick picture, I was going to post it in the heath section anyway to see if anyone had any ideas

Went and got a few outside pictures since it's warmed up a bit. It's very hard to take pictures of her pinks but i don't think she's a hypo since she only have a bit on her sides. Pics also show the bulge.

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/.../snakes692.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/.../snakes690.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/.../snakes691.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pals BP

If I understand your explanation correctly, that is not 100% true. The boa constrictor subspecies are as follows:
B. c. amarali
B.c. constrictor
B.c. imperator
B.c. longicauda
B.c. melanogaster
B.c. nebulosus
B.c. occidentalis
B. c. orophias
B.c. ortonii
B.c. sabogae

Longicauda is a separate subspecies and is not a "locality specific BCI". The Peru Longtail Boa is a locality specific BCL. While the Hog Island and the Nicaraguans are locality specific BCIs.

Here is a couple helpful links for more information about Boa Constrictor Longicauda with pictures:
http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/boas_long.htm
http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/boaco...torlongicauda/

For the OP, it is very difficult to determine what subspecies you have without breeding records. There has been a lot of cross breeding between subspecies and many boas on the market today cannot be identified as pure subspecies or localities. Nice looking boas though.

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Oh lord, I need more sleep, lol. Thanks for clarifying! I meant exactly this in my post, but I did misspeak. I meant to say they were all BCI and to go on to say BCL was a subspecies just as BCI is and NOT "locality specific" like the nics or hogs. Geez, guess it's an earlier bedtime for me........ :P

Thanks again for clarifying and also for listing all the subspecies - that's helpful to everyone!

To the OP, Yes, I do believe all your babies are common columbian boas or BCIs. But Pals is right that there has been so much cross breeding between the subspecies that a 100% accurate identification is impossible without paperwork from the original breeder. I do think your new male is a nicaraguan though (that's a locality specific BCI, lol!), or at least a nic cross - he's so dark! They are all really nice! :gj:

The pictures you posted about the "squishy-bulge"-looking boa; s/he looks pretty fat. I can't comment on the bulge, I've never seen kind of thing before. But boas should have a nice square-ish shape to them, and s/he looks AWFULLY round, bulge aside. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

The pictures you posted about the "squishy-bulge"-looking boa; s/he looks pretty fat. I can't comment on the bulge, I've never seen kind of thing before. But boas should have a nice square-ish shape to them, and s/he looks AWFULLY round, bulge aside. :(

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I tend to agree. I don't know about the bulge, but I've frankly never seen such a fat boa. Snakes tend to build fat deposits around the base of the tail and I think this is what's going on with her.

Boas should have a slender, squarish appearance - they are not as heavey-bodied as BPs.

How often are you feeding her? Boas tend to do well on a 10-14 day feeding cycle. She appears young, but I would cut back on her meals, lol. Not intended to offend! She looks healthy in every other way. And boas are garbage disposals so she may well be acting hungry all the time and fooling you into feeding her. ;)

She's supposed to be just over a year old. She is very round, hence the vet visit to make sure it isnt something else.

I feed her every 10 days. I fed her a 1 day old rat pink the first two feedings and she started getting this look. I then switched her to mouse fuzzies to lower the fat content and kept her at feeding every 10 days. I also take her out at least twice a week so she'll move around as she tends to only go from her hide to her water bowl and back.

She also has really bad sheds. I had just gotten her before her first shed with me and she could only get it past her head and then looked completely worn out(took her around an hour the get it off her head), she wouldn't move any more. I put her in a bath to soak and let her slither though a towel to help her get the rest off. It took a few soakings but we got her shed off. Since then I've kept her humidity up and had it at about 70% when she was in shed this last time. Same thing happened, she got really wrinkly then when she shed she got it just passed her head and gave up. I did the same as before to help her and we got it off. Just not sure what's up with this little one.

Hmmm......

She's just over a year old, but how long have you had her? Has she defecated for you yet? Good idea to take her to the vet just to be sure - when's the appointment?

After looking at the pics again, she looks more bloated than fat. I'm glad you switched off the rat pinks for now. Mouse fuzzies are too small for a 1 yr old boa, but so are the rat pinks and I'd want to know what's going on with her first before upping her prey size to something more appropriate. Keep us posted on what you find out at the vet's!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

After looking at the pics again, she looks more bloated than fat.

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When I first saw the pics, my first thought was that it looked like she had been filled up with water! I had heard that boas tend to get obese pretty easily, so that was my first thought. I wonder if she's retaining water or something? something about the way her skin "fits" just looks wrong. :confused: I too am curious as to what the vet says.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

When I first saw the pics, my first thought was that it looked like she had been filled up with water! I had heard that boas tend to get obese pretty easily, so that was my first thought. I wonder if she's retaining water or something? something about the way her skin "fits" just looks wrong. :confused: I too am curious as to what the vet says.

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I know! That's what I thought too. Her skin seems to be wrinkled on but not the way it would be wrinkled in a bad shed. I dunno, it's just... different...

Boas have more difficulty digesting fat. Check out this article from Basically Boas. This seems to be similar to what I'm seeing here. The article talks about genetically "fat rats" which seem to occur in jumbos in particular, but this can happen even without the jumbos if a baby boa is still getting too much fat in its diet from rat pinks. I like to have my boas on mice for their first year - the higher bone and lower fat content is more beneficial to their growth, in my opinion. So I wonder if that's what's going on with this girl....

The vet appointment isn't until friday. :(

I've had her for 6 months now, when i got her she weighed 50 grams(i'll have to look back in my book to make sure) I was told she was 6 months old then. The person I got her from bought a boa who was gravid(is that the right term for boas too?) and he walked in one day to find her tank full of babies. She was the last one he had and was eating one day old rat pinks(though he did say mice at one point and then kept saying rat over and over again now that i think about it) when I got her so I kept her on that diet. I had just moved her to slightly larger rat pinks.She had two when she got the look. It was just before this last shed that she got this fat/bloated look. I thought that she just needed to pooh at first but she did so after her shed and still still has this look to her.

She weighed in at 143 grams two weeks ago. She is my first and only baby boa, the others are all over a year old and long and muscular. I have no idea what's a good weight and size for her.

Poor thing: she looks totally swollen (and not from over eating either). Kudos on getting her to a vet.

I would ask to test her for internal parasites personally (because you never know), but keep us posted as to what the vet says.

Oh wow I just read that article and I think your right. I breed my own rats and I know the article said that the Zuckers get the high fat % when they're older but I think my baby may have gotten too much fat from the baby rats. Most of the ones I was giving her before were just born and had only taken maybe one nursing if anything from mom and only had what little fat they were born with. The feedings before she got fat I had just moved her up to to a two to three day old pink and so those pinks had time to get more fat from mom. Her last pooh was dark and sticky looking as well.

Maybe the Vet can tell me something to give her so I don't loose her like the guy lost his.

I hope everything works out for you! I would print that article and take it to the vet with you. Not saying that IS what's going on with her, but it might help your vet. And do have her checked for internal parasites too. Keep us posted!

Sorry I didn't update until now! It's been quite hectic. (If anyone knows anything about blood pythons please message me. I had two adults dropped off at my house in the cold yesterday. They were sitting outside anywhere from noon to 5 pm.)

The doc said that she seemed to be over weight and that the rats just might not sit well with her right now. We've got her on the smallest mouse fuzzies every 14 days.She already looks smaller and has gotten some more color back. I was swimming her twice a week but it's gotten so cold here that I've just been handling her more with no swims. Tonight is feeding night so i'll try to take a picture.

I took the article to the doctor and he said that's probably what was starting to happen to her. Something about boas don't do well with fatty diets and it's was probably just too much too often for her. We have that all fixed now :)

Thanks for the update! I'll keep my fingers crossed that she continues to do well..... :gj: