Beginning Breeder picking out 1 Male and 4 Females, what would you suggest?

Cost is really not the issue, but like anyone else I would like to get the most bang for my buck. Any particular combinations you would chose coming out of the gate.....Thanks

Keneke

This question comes up a lot and I think the answer is pretty universal. It really depends on what you like and want to make. Take a look at the world of ball pythons morph list and go from there. The number of morphs and mutations are vast, so you could feasibly go in so many great directions. I would say pick your 4 females up first as they take longer to mature than males.

As stated above this question is always asked and the same answer given its all personal preference.

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Originally Posted by kevinb

As stated above this question is always asked and the same answer given its all personal preference.

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x2

Thank you for your response, but these are all cookie cutter answers. Give me some meat. Like for example - I was thinking of a Male Bumblebbe mated to a Pastel andto a Cinnammon and to a Fire and to an Enchi. Would you do a different combination or ??

If you want an answer other than the universal "it all depends on what you like and morphs you want to create" i'll just say that you should get some double gene females if money is not an issue. Some suggestions are bumblebee, spinner, lemon blast, pastel yellowbelly, blue eyed lucy, super pastel.

Go with the $1-3k base morphs....get a better return rate.

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Questions like this are always going to get cookie cutter responses. There are too many possibilities out there especially with cost not being a limitation. I would honestly aim for some super females (such as a killer bee, BEL, Super cinny/black pastel) and a super nice male.

Honestly If you want a 4 some to breed with the most possibilities on return, I would pick up desert ghost, and desert ghost combos and find a really high end desert ghost combo male to pair them with in a year....The three females will cost you between 3-5k apiece but hey you said money is no object right?:D

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I was thinking of a Male Bumblebbe mated to a Pastel andto a Cinnammon and to a Fire and to an Enchi.

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Breed something that 100,000 other people are not breeding, the morphs you list puts you right smack in the middle of the most over bred morphs out there(except enchi).

If cost isn't an issue...:P

Het puma male

yb female
spider yb female
Super pastel female
pastel yellowbelly female

If cost isn't an issue than buy adult multigene (recessive or codom depending on what morphs you like or want to work with) females and a subadult or adult male (multigene recessive or codom depending on what your females are). Figure out what morphs you like on worldofballpythons.com and once you know what morphs you like and want to make more of people on here will be able to advise you better on what pairings you want.

Here you go. Why don't you go with a coral glow/banana male to start. Hmm.. Maybe can get an enchiferno, bumblebee clown, panda pied and super pewter females. Those would make for some insanely cool projects that not everyone is doing. I threw the cookie cutter out for that one ;)

I must say to the OP that I sure hope you know your Ball python genetics before buying single & multi-gene snakes, especially recessives and hets.

I would honestly first start there.

Wow, I can see asking a question on this site, just gets you a bunch of smart !@#!@3 answers. Especially when someone is asking a general question, However, I have 35k to start the business thats why I said bang for the buck. For the couple of people who did try to help - thank you, the rest of you - move out of your parents basement and get a life.

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Originally Posted by Kbl Leide

Wow, I can see asking a question on this site, just gets you a bunch of smart !@#!@3 answers. Especially when someone is asking a general question, but I have 35k to start the business for the :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: in the above comment. For the 2 people who did try to help, the rest get a life.

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Don't take us too offensively. It is your preference on what animals you want to get that you want to breed. And since there are several threads like this all the time, there won't always be too many exciting answers.

We are just trying to tell you to look up morphs and get what you like most. Everyone likes something different, and it is your money that you are investing into breeding. Therefore, you should get the morphs that you like that you want to breed.

If you have 35k to spend to begin this venture, I would do the following:

Split your money evenly, into five parts, IE: 5k per animal.
Then I would determine whether I want to raise my animals and start with higher cost hatchies or start with lower priced morphs that are already of breeding age, so you could begin now.
Look at the morphs that are priced accordingly, pick the ones you like the best and begin.

Keep in mind that sometimes you will not sell a snake right away when they are ready... so it should be something you are interested in. That is what it is so subjective. People will always tell you to breed what you want to breed, because there is no cookie cutter response. There is no... A + B = Ultimate Profit.

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

If you have 35k to spend to begin this venture, I would do the following:

Split your money evenly, into five parts, IE: 5k per animal.
Then I would determine whether I want to raise my animals and start with higher cost hatchies or start with lower priced morphs that are already of breeding age, so you could begin now.
Look at the morphs that are priced accordingly, pick the ones you like the best and begin.

Keep in mind that sometimes you will not sell a snake right away when they are ready... so it should be something you are interested in. That is what it is so subjective. People will always tell you to breed what you want to breed, because there is no cookie cutter response. There is no... A + B = Ultimate Profit.

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To expand on this...the trends are always changing and prices drop once EVERYONE starts breeding the same animals. the market gets saturated. If you can figure out what will be HOT next you'll be able to make the most profit.

Also, s the 35k for EVERYTHING (racks,incubator,caging,etc) or JUST snakes?

Buy the females first. I would suggest calling one of the larger breeders and discussing ideas with them. If you are serious about spending that much any of them would be happy to talk to you. Most will even if your spending less. Personally I think Orange dreams Pieds Clowns and Enchis are a good investment right now.

Thank you very much...that is helpful. I live in Atlanta, so Im not far from J. Kolbylka. I will try to get intouch with him.

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Originally Posted by Kbl Leide

Thank you very much...that is helpful. I live in Atlanta, so Im not far from J. Kolbylka. I will try to get intouch with him.

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Maybe send an email to a few of them. Just to get a few ideas. Seriously though, listen to everyone and get the females first. Multi gene ones and skip the hets, get visuals if you ate getting recessive.

It's all about breeding what you want to breed and I know that isn't the answer you're looking for, but it is the only fitting answer here. I could sit here and tell you what I would do if I was starting fresh and had 35k to invest. But if what I like doesn't excite you, you are not going to enjoy your breeding projects. And that is what this is all about. I got into breeding because I love reptiles and the prospect of making my own was exciting to me. But there are "hot" morphs that others love that i wouldn't waste my money on because they aren't to my taste. That is why you won't get a more detailed response suggesting what you should buy. We don't know what you like.

Now if I was starting fresh and had 35k to spend? Not sure on the male. Something multi gene with lesser and pattern morphs in it. But as far as females go: killer clown, super pewter, toffee and a creamsicle. I may be over budget, but those are some girls i would love to have if I had the cash to burn.

I said it before, look into the desert ghost project, it is one of the coolest recessive projects out there... not alot availble and not alot has been done with it yet. If you wanna do some dom codom stuff there are some neat projects out there not much has been done with, the GHI ball, rdr's black head (freaking brilliant by the way),leopard the puma project would be a wise investment, so would the scream project. Anything multigene with enchi or spotnose is a good investment as well. If you are really investing 35k in this, I would try to spread it around a bit, you can spend 5k on each animal and make babies that there are a ton of people wanting to look at but few with the cash to buy, or buy some high end projects but aquire some females you can produce 500-2500 babies. I by no means was being sarcastic by recommending the desert ghost project. I would love to have 35k to spend on balls, Congrats I hope you pick something you really enjoy. Get your racks set up a good quarantine area and Good luck.

Ok a few things. There are hundreds of these threads out there. Now I have to ask a question that no one has yet. Have you ever owned a ball python or even a reptile. The reptile world is mostly based off of reputation. How well you know your stuff, How you treat people as well as the quality of your animals. So telling people to move out of their parents basements really doesnt help you. Like some one said before. There no if you do this, this and this you will make money. If you want to breed to make money then look something else. Many people have come into this thinking it would make em rich. Most people start as a hobby and build from there.

Thank you to everyone who gave me different and personal advise. I had raised Peruvian Red Tail Boas (live babies) for about ten years, but that was 20 years ago. I Graduated College, donated my 2 breeding pair and went back to Hawaii, where they frawn on exotic pets.

I have money set back for a career / slash life change. My 2 girls wanted to get Ball Pythons, so for the past 6 months I have been doing research and was blown away how the areana has changed

And maybe a little advice to those who say that this question is asked a lot, Don't answer the question skip it and move on to another, unless you want to really help. I have contacted the rack company (Freedom Breeder) and have that all lined up. So the 35k is strictly for stock and that doesnt meean I blow it 1 shot, but it will get the attention of a breeder.

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Originally Posted by Kbl Leide

And maybe a little advice to those who say that this question is asked a lot, Don't answer the question skip it and move on to another, unless you want to really help. I have contacted the rack company (Freedom Breeder) and have that all lined up. So the 35k is strictly for stock and that doesnt meean I blow it 1 shot, but it will get the attention of a breeder.

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This question is asked a lot because people want everything spoon fed to them.

It's amazing that you're prepared to drop 35k on this venture, yet you're soliciting advise from a bunch of random donks on an internet forum? Hope you've got a good plan "B"...

Wow, so your a BP Veteran and thats the advice, to degrade the people who actually took the time to answer. 6 months of research, would simply like to hear ideas from other people. Must be nice to be a know it all.

This my last post I'll go some where else.

Happy Holidays

Plan B is to contact J. Kolbylka. Mike Wilbanks, Greg Graziani, Markus and Jayne Ball Python. to start off. Because I ve already read Peter Kahl and have viewed 100 Snakebie.TV clips. I quess I'll keep my questions for the profession.als

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Originally Posted by sho220

This question is asked a lot because people want everything spoon fed to them.

It's amazing that you're prepared to drop 35k on this venture, yet you're soliciting advise from a bunch of random donks on an internet forum? Hope you've got a good plan "B"...

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Cant agree with this more. Hope you've done your homework if youre investing 35 K.. thats all i can say lol. As for cool morphs, heres a database full of them: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/

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Originally Posted by Kbl Leide

Wow, so your a BP Veteran and thats the advice, to degrade the people who actually took the time to answer. 6 months of research, would simply like to hear ideas from other people. Must be nice to be a know it all.

This my last post I'll go some where else.

Happy Holidays

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IMO youre getting completely good advice here...

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Originally Posted by Kbl Leide

Wow, so your a BP Veteran and thats the advice, to degrade the people who actually took the time to answer. 6 months of research, would simply like to hear ideas from other people. Must be nice to be a know it all.

This my last post I'll go some where else.

Happy Holidays

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You're asking for personal opinions from people you don't know...about how to spend 35 grand. :rolleye2: and in the end, you're just going to do what you want anyway...

and I've only been doing this for 5 or 6 years, so I'm still a newbie, not a veteran...

Mattchibi - I offered you a down load for your punnett square question, so I quess I'm not that stupid!

Isnt this what this site is about to ask questions. To get positive feedback on questions. A "Community"

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Originally Posted by Kbl Leide

Mattchibi - I offered you a down load for your punnett square question, so I quess I'm not that stupid!

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First, never said you were stupid. Its clear you have a passion for these animals. 35 K is a lot of money.. we are just advising that you spend it well. I am just starting a few of my breeding projects now and I am only putting in about 3 K and that is KILLING me, financially. If you have the money, dont get me wrong, GO for it!! You will have a heck of a head start with 35 K, but keep in mind, the more you spend the bigger the risk you are taking. I think I see a thread on here at least once a week asking the same question you asked, and everybody gets the same answer. There are more than enough resources out there for you to learn on your own. Its a learning experience so im sure you will pick up a lot of things as you go as well.

Second, about the punnett squares. I didnt actually need a genetics calculator and never will. In my opinion, knowing how to do punnett squares solves all of that. Why get a calculator when you can learn to do it yourself? I personally am fascinated with the genetics of ball pythons.. and after learning to do punnett squares, its really rewarding knowing how to combine different morphs and knowing the exact odds of what that pairing would produce. Good luck with your projects let us know how it goes

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Originally Posted by Kbl Leide

Isnt this what this site is about to ask questions. To get positive feedback on questions. A "Community"

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yes it is. But when you start insulting people they arnt so friendly. Besides like its been said, this question is asked ALOT. A quick search would have shown that. You said you have been doing research for 6 months but yet cant use the search button here? Remember tho. Like I said, This community is alot off of reputation and yours isnt starting off too good with insulting people and what not

I don't think anyone here is out to insult you or scare you away from this community. I know looking back, there are things I would probably do differently if I was starting back at square one. Snakes I should have grabbed and others I should have passed on. What I can tell you now, which no one here can answer for you, is to define your vision for what you want to see in your first breeding season. As I shop for future breeders, I think about some cool snake I saw that I want to make or some combination that hasn't been done yet (or so I hope). So I stick with what I originally said, head over to world of bps and find the morphs that really ignite your passion for this hobby. Do that and you'll know exactly what to buy.

get what you want, dont ask us, in the end you're going to get what YOU want, so herp derp and get some snakes :P

I say troll or 14 year old kid. Come to think of it either way...TROLL

I mean seriously, anyone who is going to drop 35k on ball pythons and has supposedly "done his research" isn't going to come up with bumblebee male to female pastel as a suggestion. COME ON. I just wish the trolls would put a little more effort into it. They aren't even interesting anymore.

don't breed 4 females your first time around unless you've bred snakes before

I don't know if the OP was the one originally being insulting... I was fairly active here a year ago, left for the summer and came back and found everyone has gotten a lot ruder to not just these kinds of posts, but all of them. Not sure how active I really feel like being here anymore. :/ It isn't hard to be -polite- even if the question has been asked a million times. If you feel like it's been asked too much, don't answer it! :P C'mon people.. cheer up and be nice to your fellow herpers, this isn't fauna. lol <3

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Originally Posted by Kbl Leide

Wow, I can see asking a question on this site, just gets you a bunch of smart !@#!@3 answers. Especially when someone is asking a general question, However, I have 35k to start the business thats why I said bang for the buck. For the couple of people who did try to help - thank you, the rest of you - move out of your parents basement and get a life.

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Here is my advice for your future business plans...

Take the time to realize that about 20% of your success or failure in this business will be determined by what morphs you make. The other 80% will be determined by your reputation. Being snippy to people trying to help you in the best known ball python forum on the web is not a good start on the reputation building.

My observation...

If you legitimately had 35k to spend, and you legitimately have done lots of research; 1.) you wouldn't be asking us what you should get to breed. 2.) You wouldn't be suggesting a buble bee and a pastel.

My advice to you personally...

Spend about $1,000 getting a single base morph male and 2 single base morph females. Pick ones that you like to look at... pick ones that will make combos that you like to look at. Successfully breed those for a year or two... then decide if the other 34k should even be spent on ball pythons at all.

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Originally Posted by Misfit

I don't know if the OP was the one originally being insulting... I was fairly active here a year ago, left for the summer and came back and found everyone has gotten a lot ruder to not just these kinds of posts, but all of them. Not sure how active I really feel like being here anymore. :/ It isn't hard to be -polite- even if the question has been asked a million times. If you feel like it's been asked too much, don't answer it! :P C'mon people.. cheer up and be nice to your fellow herpers, this isn't fauna. lol <3

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People arent any ruder now then they were when I joined about 4 years ago... certain kinds of threads will always get negative responses, as they should.

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Originally Posted by Amon Ra Reptiles

I say troll or 14 year old kid. Come to think of it either way...TROLL

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When I read this I instantly thought of Harry Potter. "TROLL!!!! THERES A TROLL IN THE DUNGEON!!!!" Lol. :p

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Originally Posted by Amon Ra Reptiles

I say troll or 14 year old kid. Come to think of it either way...TROLL

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Hey I'm 14!...but I don't make fun of people on the web. And I know what morphs I want to breed. My advice is the same as everyone elses. Find what you like and breed it. I like super cinnys and bels.

Well, in light of all of the interesting comments posted to my question, I wanted to finish the blog with my intention on why I wrote it.
In any business you need to start off with passion of course, but then you need to ask a few questions; 1) what is my budget 2) time frame in which you wish to recoup your initial investment 3) price point.
Do I want to start from scratch and use the 35k to buy my racks (Freedom Breeder) and roughly 30 hatchlings ( 5.25). This would allow me to watch them grow and begin planning the pairings. Plus it would be cool to walk into a large breeding facility with a little coin in my pocket. This is why I gave the scenario of Bumblebee male < Pastel , Spider, Cinna, Fire, enchi, which would be just 1 group of the 5 that would purchase with the 35k. If you take the standard average 4 per clutch (which is on the low side a little I think) that would NET me 125 offspring in the first breeding season Down side 3 to 4 years). However, one cannot expect a 100% success rate in the first time out, so I’m guessing 50% or in other words 62 ish offspring. If my price point average is reasonable say $400 spread out over the 60 hatchling I would make just shy of 25K. Now I would keep the ones I wanted, but you see the thought process.
The other school of thought is to spend 30K on 5 breeding age snakes in which if all worked out you could breed the first year. Your number of off spring would be considerably lower, but you would have (3-4 years) of breeding in comparison to the above mention theory. You might produce 10 viable hatchlings the first year. Some you might want to sell the others keep in house for future breeding. The number would be greater in the years to follow. However, if you are producing snakes in the price range that no one can afford then that defeats the purpose of going into business.
The reason I am posting this is because, I just simply wanted to hear from the experienced breeders on this site, what they would do if they could start over. Isn’t that what a parent teaches their children, “learn from my mistakes, so you can be further along than I was at your age”. If I have offended anyone, I am truly sorry. Some of the comments I was not ready for- MY BAD.
Thank you and Happy Holidays.

Pick a couple morph females that you like the look of or want to create and a couple double gene males that you like the look of or will help you make what you want. Dont go too big you will get in over your head. Good Luck. (trust me spend a little more and get the double gene males and females, I got all single genes when I started and now I have way too many males just sitting around, you will save money and time in the long run and they look cooler and have way more combo potential)

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Originally Posted by Domepiece

Pick a couple morph females that you like the look of or want to create and a couple double gene males that you like the look of or will help you make what you want. Dont go too big you will get in over your head. Good Luck. (trust me spend a little more and get the double gene males and females, I got all single genes when I started and now I have way too many males just sitting around, you will save money and time in the long run and they look cooler and have way more combo potential)

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Wow Ok just read back through this thread, LOL. If your dropping that much you might as well get quad gene everything. Hope all goes well.

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Originally Posted by Domepiece

Wow Ok just read back through this thread, LOL. If your dropping that much you might as well get quad gene everything. Hope all goes well.

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Thank you, I was thinking of maybe going that direction with something like a nulear spinner (well he had one anyway), but then if I use the punnett square I might come up with hatchlings that no one could afford. your thoughts. Mikewilford has/ had a male for $6500

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Originally Posted by Domepiece

Wow Ok just read back through this thread, LOL. If your dropping that much you might as well get quad gene everything. Hope all goes well.

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I mean Mike Wilbanks on the Nuclear Spinner for $6500.

Well imo anything past triple gene....heck even some double gene snakes are out of the price range of most hobbiest. I know I want a pastel phantom but Im not sure I want to drop $4,000 on just one snake. You see what I'm saying?

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Originally Posted by Keneke Leide

Thank you, I was thinking of maybe going that direction with something like a nulear spinner (well he had one anyway), but then if I use the punnett square I might come up with hatchlings that no one could afford. your thoughts. Mikewilford has/ had a male for $6500

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True, but you can always hold them back and get some big normal girls to breed them to. Or get quad males and normal females. Personally I wouldnt care if I could market them especially if I got something really sweet out of the pairing. I'd hold em all back if I could.

How much money will it cost you to care for 30 hatchlings for 3-4 years until you can breed them and start seeing a return on investment?


Food
Once a week feeding, 30 snakes, 52 weeks in a year X4 years of food before your first litters
That's 6240 food items before you can breed your snakes.
If you spend on average of $1.00 per food item, you are looking at:
$6240 in food.

Plus your heating for the racks over 4 years
6 watt/ft of 3 inch heat tape.
30 tubs using about 1/2 ft a tub
15 ft X 6 watts = 90 watts X 24 hours = 2160 watt hours per day = 2.16 kw hours per day
.09 cents per kw hour
.09 X 2.16 = $0.1944 per day X 30 = $5.83per month X 4 YEARS = $279.84
$279.84 for the 4 years in electric.

(that's in a perfect world, where there is no heat escape, and your AC bill is NOT calculated in that. Your AC in other rooms will be working harder to counteract the Heating that is leaking into your house from your snake room.)

Rack Investment
Plus the amount of money you spent on racks (and amount of interest that money could have been making in the bank for that 4 years, or in a quicker investment).
$5000 in racks,
(Min of $350 profit over the 4 years in an CD at 1.70% apy compounded daily)


Snake investment
Amount of money spent on snakes that could be invested
Min of $400


What's your time worth cleaning weekly and feeding weekly for 4 years?
(say your time is worth min wadge ($7.25/hour). It takes 2 hours a week to clean everything)
52/weeks X 4/years X $7.25/hour
$1508.00

Start up cost 30 snakes at $200 each = $6000
Racks for the snakes $5000
Heat tape, 15 ft of 3 in = $35.00
Amount of money from the list above: $8777.84
So in the 4 years waiting for the ball pythons to reach breeding age, you would have spent MIN of:
$19812.00 NOT INCLUDING BEDDING, WATER DISHES, TONGS, OTHER MISC SUPPLIES

You’re probably looking at 20k in the first 4 years buying hatchlings, with a profit of 25K IF YOU ARE LUCKY!!!!!

You probably won’t profit until the following year.

Love the breakdown I should hire you to see how much Ive spent but then it would be on paper and my wife will kill me lol.