Pet Store Pythons - need to vent

Hey all. I just got back from PetCo, and I feel the need to vent.

I got my ball from a breeder. She is captive bred, which was extremely important to me. I hate pet stores and would much prefer if they only sold pet supplies and not pets. I wouldn't shop at PetCo and Pets Mart at all except there really isn't much choice when you need substrates and moss, new bulbs, and all of the other things that comes with reptile ownership. I was there today getting a bigger water dish and another piece of driftwood for my ball since she seems to really enjoy climbing on the one she has. But just because I love looking at reptiles, I went to stare at the ball pythons on sale in the store. It made me so sad.

There were three for sale, all in the same tank. They were under bright fluorescent lighting and all three were huddled together, obviously competing for the one warm spot. There were no hides in the tank, so the animals are always visible to prospective buyers. Just some astroturf, a water dish, and a single plant, all with the price tags on them, for reference. All of the snakes were malnourished. They were long and slender, and looked almost exactly like corn snakes in python print, not thick like ball should be. All three were captive hatched, from eggs harvested in Africa.

As an animal lover, I wanted to buy all three and nurse them back to health and give them long and happy lives. This is a budgetary impossibility, but even if it wasn't, I thought about it, and doing so would just perpetuate what is such a huge problem. I am sure some of you got your snakes from pet stores, and I mean absolutely no offense, but I think the importation of these animals, even as eggs, and the poor treatment they receive is a huge cause for concern.

Again, I mean no offense to the people who have acquired their balls differently, but I just want to explain my logic in being sure my snake was captive bred from a reputable breeder. I think importing snakes of any age, egg, neonate, or adult, is foolish and irresponsible. There are huge breeding stocks of ball pythons domestically, bred by people who know and love these snakes and know how to give them the best care possible. We have to remember that balls are exotic animals who play a vital part in the ecosystem in central Africa. Taking just one ball from the wild is going to have a negative environmental impact, not to mention the thousands taken every year to stock pet store shelves with sick animals.

So I urge you, if you have a friend who wants to join the ball python community, direct them to a breeder. My girl is a normal, her selling pice was $40, her shipping was $50. PetCo sells malnourished normals for $79.99. $10 more for a healthy, well cared for, captive bred snake. Thats a no brainer to me. No to mention all of the beautiful morphs offered by breeders for those willing to spend a little more for a cooler paint job. But most importantly, whether its the snake costs $40 or $4,000 you know it has been bred and cared for by someone who knows how to care for it.

For those of us that want desperately to buy pet store animals to "save" them, remember that for every pet store animal you buy, another will be imported to replace it. It breaks my heart and brings tears to my eyes thinking that the three snakes I saw today at PetCo are spending yet another night in appalling conditions. But what is even more sad is the thought that as soon as they are bought, three more will replace them. Stop buying sick snakes from pet stores. If the stores can't sell them, they won't stock them, and more wild caught and bred snakes will stay in the wild where they belong.

I have seen the same thing, and it really is awful. :mad:
The chain pet stores seem to have deplorable conditions for all their reptiles. If mammals were in similar situations they would probably have long ago been in trouble for animal cruelty.

I've seen my share of skinny, almost sickly looking petstore snakes as well, though I have to say I got my first ever ball from a Petco (overpaid of course) but she's been wonderful and I have yet to have any health problems with her in having her for a good year now (and when I got her she was actually really plump and healthy looking!). I lucked out though I think and would also advise anyone wanting to get into balls/snakes/any other reptile to check out breeders first: better chance of them eating, being healthy, and at a better price to boot.

Remember, not all are the same. It's unfair to group them all together. YOUR petsmart and petco are bad. My Petco actually isn't that bad. Most petstores group them together either way.

I agree with You. I do.disagree with one thing. Our petsmart uses snakes from local breeders, and the person who tends to them was a retic and Burmese breeder in Flordia, Maybe we got the lucky shop, lol. But I understand completely our local pet shop is horrible. The snake we bought local Is doing worse then the pertsmart snake which is extremely healthy and very docile. Please don't gut me alive, I understand this and know that animals shouldn't be treated like this, I also agree It should stop. Very good post none the less. And I would shar e more about my personal experience, but it's more important the way most people treat them, to the one jewel in local pet trading.

Daybreaker, I am so glad that you got a healthy ball from a pet store! Good to know that they are not all bad. Maybe she lucked out and there was an employee at that store who really knew and cared about snakes. I know if I worked at a pet store, I would be setting up gorgeous snake habitats and volunteering to do all of the care and maintenance! It sounds like your ball is in great hands now, and that is really all that matters, making sure whatever snakes we adopt that they are happy and healthy.

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Originally Posted by zeion97

I agree with You. I do.disagree with one thing. Our petsmart uses snakes from local breeders, and the person who tends to them was a retic and Burmese breeder in Flordia, Maybe we got the lucky shop, lol. But I understand completely our local pet shop is horrible. The snake we bought local Is doing worse then the pertsmart snake which is extremely healthy and very docile. Please don't gut me alive, I understand this and know that animals shouldn't be treated like this, I also agree It should stop. Very good post none the less. And I would shar e more about my personal experience, but it's more important the way most people treat them, to the one jewel in local pet trading.

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I am so glad to hear that you know of a shop that knows how to treat their snakes. That is really encouraging, and if they have a snake specialist on hand, all the better for new snake owners who need a knowledgeable resource. I have been to a PetCo, PetsMart and local pet shop in my area and that is just not the case. I am sure there are great pet shops out there, I just haven't personally found one, so I am so glad to hear that you have!

I hate Petsmart and Petco...they are very uneducated when it comes to reptiles...

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Remember, not all are the same. It's unfair to group them all together. YOUR petsmart and petco are bad. My Petco actually isn't that bad. Most petstores group them together either way.

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Yours must be the exception because i've heard a lot of bad things from several different people in several different cities about Petsmart and Petco being extremely uneducated to the point of stupidity when it comes to reptiles.

There are always exceptions to every stereotype; the unfortunate thing is that usually you see the stereotype. I'm sure there are pet stores that treat their animals well/correctly (there's a store called Today's Pet that actually hires people specialized to each group of animals, I worked for them and they really showed love and proper care for all their animals. They didn't just hire anybody and tell them "here, take care of these animals you really don't know much about.") but most people will only come across the terrible pet stores. :( It's sad.

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Originally Posted by Emily Hubbard

I am so glad to hear that you know of a shop that knows how to treat their snakes. That is really encouraging, and if they have a snake specialist on hand, all the better for new snake owners who need a knowledgeable resource. I have been to a PetCo, PetsMart and local pet shop in my area and that is just not the case. I am sure there are great pet shops out there, I just haven't personally found one, so I am so glad to hear that you have!

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I will tell you this as well, she (the reptile care taker) tells me constantly that she bust her but to take care of the snakes, she does a lot that she isn't supposed to Because she loves the reptiles. I really don't agree with a lot of pet stores and some I do. I will also agree that I plan to only buy from breeders in the future. (Boas and Balls is where I am going to make my next purchase. :) ) and I will also give you a horror story. A pet store in the next town over had two snakes.. a young no.more then 3 week old RTB which was only about an inch thick. And another older RTB, the cages were set up poorly, but here's:cool: the kicker. I told the owner after examining the snakes it had a R.I. it was bubbling from the mouth and weak. It is horrible what a lot of stores do to reptiles, and even birds... but Because there not as important to people as cats and dogs are nothing is done... people need to see, even scorpions and tarantulas are animals just as reptiles are.

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Originally Posted by evan385

Yours must be the exception because i've heard a lot of bad things from several different people in several different cities about Petsmart and Petco being extremely uneducated to the point of stupidity when it comes to reptiles.

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MINE isn't the exception. There are MANY exceptions. You can't group them all together :rage:

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

MINE isn't the exception. There are MANY exceptions. You can't group them all together :rage:

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Well from what i've heard about 90% of them are terrible with reptiles.

Yeah and I've heard ball pythons are all horrible about going off feed and being picky eaters. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Yeah and I've heard ball pythons are all horrible about going off feed and being picky eaters. :rolleyes:

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That's completely different.

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Originally Posted by evan385

That's completely different.

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Nope. You're making a sweeping generalization based off of a stereotype. It's no different than someone claiming that all ball pythons have feeding issues because some of the species does.

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Originally Posted by evan385

Well from what i've heard about 90% of them are terrible with reptiles.

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I'm sorry, I have to be specific on this one, because I'm pretty sure you pulled that number out of your butt ;)

Don't use statistics unless you know the actual numbers :P 90% is an assumption.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Nope. You're making a sweeping generalization based off of a stereotype. It's no different than someone claiming that all ball pythons have feeding issues because some of the species does.

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Well i've never heard anything remotely good about Petsmart/Petco and reptiles with the exception of Jessica. Besides her i've only heard bad things about them.

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Originally Posted by evan385

Well i've never heard anything remotely good about Petsmart/Petco and reptiles with the exception of Jessica. Besides her i've only heard bad things about them.

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There were 2 others alone in this thread. Maybe you should stop generalizing everything together, there are always exceptions to the majority, which I never disagreed with by the way.

The local petsmart where I'm at always has amazing enclosures for their animals. Admittedly, no hides, but this is made up for with the amount of fake greenery. I can't say I've ever seen an ill looking animal.

Now there's two or three, depending on who you are, who have positive reviews about petsmart.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

There were 2 others alone in this thread. Maybe you should stop generalizing everything together, there are always exceptions to the majority, which I never disagreed with by the way.

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Fine, and I never said ALL of them are bad just most of them. Could be people don't post their good experiences with them. Media tends to have take a liking to bad news and talk about it more frequently maybe people and society do this too. As far as buying a snake from them, personally I would buy from a breeder and if I had to get local I would go with Critter Barn because I know without a doubt that all of their snakes are at least very healthy and quality animals even if they are slightly uneducated. As far as bedding, bulbs, heat pads Critter Barn is cheaper and especially their rats. Petsmart is WAY overpriced for rats at $13 with tax for six small mice and I can get six jumbos for half of that price at CB. Not that I feed mice anymore.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

MINE isn't the exception. There are MANY exceptions. You can't group them all together :rage:

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Yes you can, on a corporate level. As a corporation they work numbers for the best profit, its not about the care of the animals, its about making money.
To make it worse, they (Petco) actively donate and fund raise for HSUS in order to get a free pass from the AR activists out there that would be fighting them.
I have a good petco near, but also a bad one and a bad Petsmart, I've argued with the manager of one over the care of one of their reptiles only to be told that they're not spending $100 on a $50 animal at a vet.

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Originally Posted by Maixx

Yes you can, on a corporate level. As a corporation they work numbers for the best profit, its not about the care of the animals, its about making money.
To make it worse, they (Petco) actively donate and fund raise for HSUS in order to get a free pass from the AR activists out there that would be fighting them.
I have a good petco near, but also a bad one and a bad Petsmart, I've argued with the manager of one over the care of one of their reptiles only to be told that they're not spending $100 on a $50 animal at a vet.

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Hit the nail on the head. Chain pet stores don't care nearly as much about healthy, quality animals as making money.

A corporate level deals with statistics, not each individual store on a one-on-one level. Franchise or private, each store will be different, no matter what the chain is. My local PetCo is wonderful with their animals - all of them. There are several exceptions as each hiring manager is different. They follow certain guidelines when picking employees, but there are managers who truly care about the animals well-being.

That being said, my first BP came from PetCo. Every penny I paid for him was well worth it as he is a wonderful little guy. Yes, captive hatched or even wild hatched animals aren't the best way to go, but they do deserve a chance too. They can't help that they were taken out of Africa, away from their natural habitat. They are for intermediate or expert keepers as a lot of them are harder to maintain as a CB snake. There are people out there willing to take on a CH/WH, Craigslist, pet store or shady breeder snake, and more power to them. We need to remember that we are their voices, every single one of them, no matter where they come from.

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Originally Posted by Maixx

Yes you can, on a corporate level. As a corporation they work numbers for the best profit, its not about the care of the animals, its about making money.
To make it worse, they (Petco) actively donate and fund raise for HSUS in order to get a free pass from the AR activists out there that would be fighting them.
I have a good petco near, but also a bad one and a bad Petsmart, I've argued with the manager of one over the care of one of their reptiles only to be told that they're not spending $100 on a $50 animal at a vet.

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Yep ... there will always be an exception, for the reasons mentioned.

Evan, I agree with everything you said about Petco and their prices on things, and I rather buy from breeders as well for many reasons, but most is always a better word than 90%. There are Petcos out there that DO care about their animals. The people above them may not, on different levels (ie general managers, corporate offices, etc), but there is always going to be an exception to the rule. So no, you can't.


By the way, you have a lot of members HERE that will even tell you.... "I will not spend $100 at the vet on a $50 snake" ..... Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Emily Hubbard

There were three for sale, all in the same tank. They were under bright fluorescent lighting and all three were huddled together, obviously competing for the one warm spot. There were no hides in the tank, so the animals are always visible to prospective buyers. Just some astroturf, a water dish, and a single plant, all with the price tags on them, for reference.

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Based off of your other descriptions of the animals, I doubt a small husbandry change would help these pythons, and the staff at that particular store are a huge problem.. BUT

your description of the tank is against petco policy. Ask them to review their planograms. Ball pythons at petco are required to be on either aspen or eco earth, have at least 1 hide (I know, it would be better if there weren't 3 together, but this is not against petco policy), and a large water dish.

If you'd like, I can find the contact information for their disctrict manager so that you can express your concerns. I cannot stress enough however, to always remain calm when 'telling people their business'. If you come across as trying to help and not telling them how to do their job (even if you are fully in the right), nothing you say will matter.

Our PetCo is crap here, and we just had a PetSmart open that seems to be doing things nicely. I have sold some of my normals to pet stores ( locally owned ) and I always go over the proper care with them, plus check out their current setups and how the animals look before even offering my snakes to them.

Not all PetCo and PetSmart stores are crappy, but I definitely prefer to buy from breeders.

I've been to about 4 PetsMarts, and perhaps 2-3 Petcos. The PetsMarts aren't bad about the reptiles, the Petcos, one good, one or two bad.

Mom and Pop pet stores? I think out of about 10 I've been to, 6-7 bad, 3-4 decent.

Multiple snakes per enclosure and few or no hides is part of displaying for sale. If you look at a show you won't see snakes displayed for sale with hides either. Yes yes, shows are only a couple days, but after the animals are stressed by transporting them before and after, and few have proper heat during display too. So why not wail about that too?

As far as "Never import!" what about all the new blood, the new morphs? Those come from Africa, in the main. Tons of animals that come in every year ARE cared for properly. Many ball pythons are farm hatched and thus importing them has little to no impact on the 'wild'.

It's like saying that all reptile owners just like to see things die in a horrible fashion so they buy snakes to see mice crushed to death. Is that true? Gee, I see plenty o feeding videos, so it must be true! Look at YouTube at how many people are loving how the prey dies.

You can't generalize about "all" of anything. All pet stores aren't bad. All pet owners aren't bad. All imports aren't ill-cared for. For that matter, not all breeders care.

And if you run a business it HAS to be about the profit. Sorry if people want a Pollyanna world but if you aren't concerned about whether you make a profit, you don't stay in business. That's just the reality of it. The good stores balance making a profit with decent care of the animals(i.e. they feed them well enough to maintain them, they clean the cages and buy quality animals). But when it comes to spending $100 to treat a $10 animal, most businesses will not do it. Heck, a lot of breeders won't do it either! Breeders are often a business too.

If you don't like how anyone runs their business, then don't shop there. Just because you need dry goods or whatever is not a valid excuse in these days of internet shopping. You can order just about anything off online stores and avoid ANY stores locally.

Petco's HSUS ties are one reason I don't use them, even when I need items, I'll choose a different store, or order online and pay shipping. If a store is actively neglecting animals(filthy cages, no water, etc) then I'll point the neglect out to the people in the store in a calm manner. If they act unconcerned, I take my money elsewhere.

The difference with breeders is that they care about the health and quality of their snakes because they want repeat customers. Chain pet stores just want to make as much money as possible and I assume since most only sell normal ball pythons they don't think about repeat customers or breeding as much as breeders that produce morphs. Not saying all of them are bad but most of them only care about making money.

That's kind of BS. If a breeder sells a snake to a person, he's looking for a repeat customer just as much as a store. In fact, stores often count on the customer coming back for food and other items so they want happier customers while a breeder who only sells the live animals may never see that person again, since they already have the pet and not every person wants multiple snakes.

You're counting on each customer being a breeder and wanting multiple animals. That's not always the case. And there's plenty of breeders who figure there's plenty of fish out there for them to sell to, so a unhappy customer means nothing. Same as stores that don't care if the animal dies, a breeder could think exactly the same way.

Generally breeders care more about the health and quality of their snakes than chain pet stores. That's just a fact.

I agree with wolfy-hound wholeheartedly.

To say breeders care more about their animals is just a fact, well, it is most of the time. Sadly as I mentioned there are exceptions to every rule, even that one. Lots of people get into this business/hobby to "make money." Lots of reptile club members take horrible care of their snakes ... some don't even know they are, and some do.

So let's not JUST blame the pet stores.

And I have to say ... I have seen far more mom and pop shops with horrible setups than chain pet stores, as chain pet stores have more money and rules to follow, where mom and pop shops do it however they want and are often on a tight budget.

Our Petcos are far better than our Petsmarts here.

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Originally Posted by evan385

Generally breeders care more about the health and quality of their snakes than chain pet stores. That's just a fact.

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I think the key point here is ethical breeders care more about health and quality. "breeders" is far too general of a term.. considering Petco gets their snakes from wholesalers who get their snakes from "breeders" from around the country. Some "breeders" provide the bulk of their assortment of snakes for a particular region (if you didn't know, Petco and Petsmart don't all get their animals from ONE location, but rather several different vendors scattered across the country, which then get much of their supply from local breeders in the area). In the same way that each individual store within a company can be horrible vs great due to the staff that work there, there are also bad breeders who don't give a crap about their stock, and there are breeders who do want to produce quality animals.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

And I have to say ... I have seen far more mom and pop shops with horrible setups than chain pet stores, as chain pet stores have more money and rules to follow, where mom and pop shops do it however they want and are often on a tight budget.

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THIS. Don't take the following as my SUPPORT for chain petstores: Chain petstores have regulations, and while we will not all agree with the husbandry, they do have rules to follow, and there are checks in place to ensure at least the bare minimum for the animals in their care. Most animals come and go in a chain petstore very quickly, and do not have to deal with less than ideal conditions too long (again, NOT CONDONING, JUST EXPLAINING). Small mom and pop shops do not have the same expectations or regulations, even if they should. If I had a dime for every illegal baby turtle being sold at an improper size, or for every time my eyes have watered due to the smell of filth in a small mom and pop shop...

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

I agree with wolfy-hound wholeheartedly.

To say breeders care more about their animals is just a fact, well, it is most of the time. Sadly as I mentioned there are exceptions to every rule, even that one. Lots of people get into this business/hobby to "make money." Lots of reptile club members take horrible care of their snakes ... some don't even know they are, and some do.

So let's not JUST blame the pet stores.

And I have to say ... I have seen far more mom and pop shops with horrible setups than chain pet stores, as chain pet stores have more money and rules to follow, where mom and pop shops do it however they want and are often on a tight budget.

Our Petcos are far better than our Petsmarts here.

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I agree with you here, I went to a local "hobby" breeder to look at one of his animals before I bought my pastel, and left his place pretty pissed off after hearing him talk about "culling off" his normals because he needed the room for the eggs he had in his incubator. I'm not sure how common this is but, yeah just because someone's a breeder doesn't mean they are any better or give better care.

The difference between a breeder and a pet store is specializing your inventory. Generally speaking, a breeder will only sell one type of animal. Even if they sell multiple reptile species, it is way easier to provide quality care when your entire inventory has the same or similar care needs. When a store has reptiles, fish, rodents, birds, cats, dogs... it is impossible to have enough staff 24/7 that has intimate knowledge of every species' needs, and all animals need daily care by someone with knowledge about there needs. Sure, our snakes can do just fine on there own for a week or so, but only once we have perfected their environmental needs.

I think pet stores are great in that they provide the supplies pet owners need that cannot be found elsewhere. Online shopping is fantastic, I agree, but sometimes you can't wait for something to arrive by mail. Unexpected heat pad malfunction, bulb burnouts... even the most basic of medical supplies, can't wait with reptiles. Even food. I had a chameleon years ago and my cat got into my cricket cage, which I kept outside, and all of the crickets escaped. There was no where locally besides a pet store where I could get more crickets. Where pet stores go wrong is with the live animals, especially it seems the reptiles.

Ball python morphs are the result of generations of captive breeding. The need for imported animals is obsolete. The gene pool is plenty wide and captive hatchlings are thriving. I started this thread to vent about my experience with a local PetCo, and to my knowledge MOST (not all) chain pet stores acquire their animals as African imports and do not have knowledgeable staff.

I actually looked at a ball in a non-chain pet shop about a year ago and asked their on staff reptile "expert," "Is this python captive born or captive hatched?" to which he replied, "Yes." I said, "No, which one?" and he said "I don't know, but its always one of the two." He said all of this while feeding a Taco Bell burrito to an iguana. I could not possibly make that up. I never set foot in that store again.

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Originally Posted by evan385

The difference with breeders is that they care about the health and quality of their snakes because they want repeat customers. Chain pet stores just want to make as much money as possible and I assume since most only sell normal ball pythons they don't think about repeat customers or breeding as much as breeders that produce morphs. Not saying all of them are bad but most of them only care about making money.

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You obviously haven't dealt with breeders very much. While I haven't dealt with a lot of snake breeders, I have dealt with dog breeders and goat breeders. To say that all breeders care about their animals is a load of snake poo. Here's a few examples:

Parents bought a Scottish terrier. Terrier ended up dieing a few years later due to genetic illnesses that we weren't told about.

Parents pre-paid for a goat prior to her being weanable from her dam. When they picked up the goat, we found out that the owners had sold us the wrong animal and that the animal purchased was probably dead. I could go on, and on. Since I help my mom in the goat association registry office, I see a lot of shady things.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

And I have to say ... I have seen far more mom and pop shops with horrible setups than chain pet stores, as chain pet stores have more money and rules to follow, where mom and pop shops do it however they want and are often on a tight budget.

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This. So much. The worst store I've been to was a mom and pop store. Dead reptiles on display, no water, no hides, it always stunk, it was filthy, etc.

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Originally Posted by evan385

Generally breeders care more about the health and quality of their snakes than chain pet stores. That's just a fact.

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Travel around the block a few more times and then report back.

You stay in this hobby long enough and you'll be amazed at how silly that statement will seem to you in a few years.

With ANY pet store it all boils down to the people they hire. Unfortunately most chain pet stores will hire just about anyone to work in their store. Mom and pop stores too! I don't think the problem is the store itself. Its the lack of training.

I worked at a Petsmart for a year and a half. My co-workers knew little about reptiles and they asked me a lot of questions regarding care and such. The store used to get in lot of weak bearded dragons. As it turns out they were not getting the proper amount of food (the policy of Petsmart is to feed small lizards around 6 small crickets a day) or UVB. This was quickly fixed with a new light bulb and the department manager giving us the okay to feed the bearded dragons as needed.

The problems didn't start until we got a new department manager who knew next to NOTHING about reptiles. Actually I'm pretty sure the only animal she knew anything about was horses. When we got in some mite infested ball pythons (it happens from time to time) she only allowed us to use some natural mite spray we had on the shelf. It helped but with the stress of mites and being treated, the snakes would not eat. They grew horribly thin and I had to resort to assist feeding them (which is against the policy of the store. Only a trained veterinarian is allowed to do it and we had no vets in the area that I would consider to have a working knowledge of reptiles) just to keep them alive.

Eventually I quit to move onto a call center job (really really really wish I hadn't. I hate not working with animals for a living) and per a friend who still works there the snakes in the store still have mites and the manager is still refusing to treat them properly. The old department manager would not have stood for that. Under his management, the animals in that department NEVER went without vet care. Under this new department manager, a rat died because it took her two weeks to call the vet to set up an appointment.

So it really does depend on who works there. When I worked there with the good manager, the animals in that section were rarely sick. We had maybe a max of 2-5 animals in the sick room and some of them were in there for long term illnesses that had to be on constant treatment (hamster with immune system deficiency, bird with unexplained feather loss. It was later adopted and is doing well) It was the change of management that turned the department into Hell. Apparently the store has hired a new girl that knows NOTHING about animals and she does such a piss poor job with the animals two of my co-workers from that store have told me to come back. I'm tempted, but the only way I'd come back to that store is if they gave me control over reptile care.

Didn't read the whole thread, but I have to comment (and please note that I'm bot defending Petsmart, but I really don't like false accusations)

All the Petsmarts here in Puerto Rico have BPs that look healthy, I have yet to see 1 unhealthy/sick looking BP, and I can honestly say that I have seen AT LEAST 30 BPs across all their stores in the last few months. Also, they get their BPs from a breeder in Atlanta (I think)...

I don't know about Petco tho




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Oh, and of it weren't for wild caught snakes, the BP hobby would have NEVER reached the US, or any other other place in the world for that matter




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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

With ANY pet store it all boils down to the people they hire. Unfortunately most chain pet stores will hire just about anyone to work in their store. Mom and pop stores too! I don't think the problem is the store itself. Its the lack of training.

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This! Not saying I'd go out and buy from Petco/Petsmart, I still prefer to buy from breeders that I know have a good rep in the hobby, but the local Petco here has a regular herp hobbiest as their reptile caregiver/expert, and they've got decent care for the animals. Most pet stores don't think to hire or train someone with this knowledge, but it doesn't mean that they never have a good knowledgeable employee who can shape things up.

I've been in stores that could go either way. My local petsmart isn't the best, but the enclosures are clean and appropriate for the animals (hides for snakes, clean water, etc), it doesn't smell, and the animals all look healthy. Infact, half the time when I go (they're a FAR better alternative than my local Walmart), at least one of the enclosures is in the middle of being cleaned.

The husbandry isn't completely ideal (they have the dial temp and humidity things), but it's a lot better than many places. The generalization that all stores are horrible is very unjust.

I'm lucky that I have 2 out of 2 amazing pet shops in my town (small town :P) and they have more than one capable reptile worker. They also are brilliant about parrots and fish. I've never been to better stores or dealt with better people.

A petco opened in my town, I checked it out and it was.. okay. The prices weren't better than the other shops, but for some reason people think corporation=cheaper prices without even checking to see. I went there a few times, but I'm done. I dislike petco and petsmart in general, I don't care if they're a good one or a bad one, I won't shop there anymore. I'll search out a good mom and pop anyday. ;] I want to shop at a place that cares about animals, not money and I'm lucky to have two such places in my town. (And yes, I know both the owners, so I do really know they care for the animals more than money.)

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Originally Posted by Emily Hubbard

Ball python morphs are the result of generations of captive breeding. The need for imported animals is obsolete. The gene pool is plenty wide and captive hatchlings are thriving. I started this thread to vent about my experience with a local PetCo, and to my knowledge MOST (not all) chain pet stores acquire their animals as African imports and do not have knowledgeable staff.
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THIS is a outright lie. Morphs came from wild caught animals. Name one single morph that was developed from "generations of captive breeding". Morphs were almost ALL wild caught animals that were bred to see if they were genetic or a abnormality. As far as the need for fresh blood being obselete? Check out bearded dragons and the complete inability to acquire new blood and how the hobbiests are always trying to get new bloodlines from overseas.

Almost every year we see another new morph pop up from imports. The first albinos, spiders, luetistics... all imports. Yellowbellies? Imports.

Perhaps you have some skewed idea of how the morphs have been developed, but they rarely ever simply pop into being randomly in some 'generations captive bred' normal snake. The more normal way is to find a dinker in the imports and work with it to see if it's genetic or has a super form.

Some chain stores still import, as stated by others who are knowledgable in this thread, many acquire animals from wholesalers who buy from breeders local to them.

If you dislike poor husbandry of animals, fine. Just don't lump all 'imports get bad husbandry' or 'breeders are all bad and only care about money' or 'selling animals is wrong and no one should make money'. Any store can neglect it's stock. Any individual owner can neglect their pet. Any breeder can engage in dubious practices. And by the same token, they can ALL do a marvelous job with the animals in their care.

Don't dump on everyone for the actions of a few. That's no more fair than places banning all exotics just because one or two people were careless with their own pet.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

THIS is a outright lie. Morphs came from wild caught animals. Name one single morph that was developed from "generations of captive breeding". Morphs were almost ALL wild caught animals that were bred to see if they were genetic or a abnormality. As far as the need for fresh blood being obselete? Check out bearded dragons and the complete inability to acquire new blood and how the hobbiests are always trying to get new bloodlines from overseas.

Almost every year we see another new morph pop up from imports. The first albinos, spiders, luetistics... all imports. Yellowbellies? Imports.

Perhaps you have some skewed idea of how the morphs have been developed, but they rarely ever simply pop into being randomly in some 'generations captive bred' normal snake. The more normal way is to find a dinker in the imports and work with it to see if it's genetic or has a super form.

Some chain stores still import, as stated by others who are knowledgable in this thread, many acquire animals from wholesalers who buy from breeders local to them.

If you dislike poor husbandry of animals, fine. Just don't lump all 'imports get bad husbandry' or 'breeders are all bad and only care about money' or 'selling animals is wrong and no one should make money'. Any store can neglect it's stock. Any individual owner can neglect their pet. Any breeder can engage in dubious practices. And by the same token, they can ALL do a marvelous job with the animals in their care.

Don't dump on everyone for the actions of a few. That's no more fair than places banning all exotics just because one or two people were careless with their own pet.

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Again, agree wholeheartedly.

Another chiming in to say be careful with over-generalizations. I live in a big area with TONS of Petcos and Petsmarts. The health of their animals are VERY dependent on who they have working there. While I have never seen a ball tank without a hide, one of our Petcos goes above and beyond with their care due to the person in charge of that department. Both of my balls are from that store, and came with origins, hatch date, detailed feeding and shedding records, etc. My oldest ball is 2.5 years old now, and the other is 2. Both are healthy and thriving.

I don't buy from pet stores just because I really hate the way that ball pythons are imported. I don't want to support it. While I agree that imports have given us some amazing genes to work with, one of the reasons I breed is to help reduce the need to take these animals from the wild.

That being said, today I was at Petco, and their baby balls were going through a bad shed. I think humidity is a foreign concept to most pet store employees. The Petco I went to back in Utah even had the humidity gauge upside down. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I don't buy from pet stores just because I really hate the way that ball pythons are imported. I don't want to support it. While I agree that imports have given us some amazing genes to work with, one of the reasons I breed is to help reduce the need to take these animals from the wild.

That being said, today I was at Petco, and their baby balls were going through a bad shed. I think humidity is a foreign concept to most pet store employees. The Petco I went to back in Utah even had the humidity gauge upside down. :rolleyes:

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That is definitely the most common issue I see in pet stores (bad sheds). The store I bought from sells captive bred (again, probably due to the guy they had working there), but not all do. Some of the stores readily post what they are selling on the cage cards, others you have to ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I don't buy from pet stores just because I really hate the way that ball pythons are imported. I don't want to support it. While I agree that imports have given us some amazing genes to work with, one of the reasons I breed is to help reduce the need to take these animals from the wild.

That being said, today I was at Petco, and their baby balls were going through a bad shed. I think humidity is a foreign concept to most pet store employees. The Petco I went to back in Utah even had the humidity gauge upside down. :rolleyes:

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Based on the number of bad shed posts around here, I'd go as far to say that it's also a foreign concept to many forum members.

My first bp came from petco it was 2 summers ago. I didn't know anything about snakes, all I knew was that i wanted one. They had them half off at the time it was 40 bucks for a bp, I basically jumped on it. I had him for about a month and literally nothing went right, he never ate, well he ate one time the second week I had him and he re-gurged it 2 hours later, he never ate again, and he died 3 weeks later. My temps were correct i made sure of that. There was no reason for him to die.