BP for my son!

Alright so I am going to get my son a ball python for x-mas. My story is that I am somewhat afraid of snakes, but I like and respect them. I don't want my kids to be blindly afraid of snakes so I thought a ball python would be perfect as a pet and perfect for my son who was born without thumbs. Due to his size and hands he is most likely never going to play competitive sports so I am trying to provide him neat and interesting things that don't involve thumbs or athletic prowess! So far we have gone to all the local pet shops and even a reptile expo yesterday and both my kids love the snakes and hold them with no trepidation! So anyway, my question is that if your parents got you a BP, what morph would you have wanted(under $300) and what sex if you might later get into breeding?


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There are many different morphs that you can get for that price. The best advice is to start looking at sites like kingsnake.com and find a few bp's that appeal to you that are in your price range. Personally if you are thinking about breeding I would be more inclined on getting a female. They take longer to get to breeding age. Please take time to read the caresheet on this site to make sure that you are providing the best care for your new snake, and ask questions. I hate to see anyone have problems because their set up is wrong, or incorrect husbandry....

Pinstripes and Spiders are visually beautiful and will always make great looking pets. Either of those female babies can be picked up for well under $300. You could find a male Spider or Pastel, and a female Pinstripe for around $300, and make either Spinners or Lemon Blasts in a few years.

And by the way, since you're in the Springs, take a look at my available page. ;)

I agree with the above, by the way i think this is a great idea for your son. You sound like a great parent :gj:

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

Alright so I am going to get my son a ball python for x-mas. My story is that I am somewhat afraid of snakes, but I like and respect them. I don't want my kids to be blindly afraid of snakes so I thought a ball python would be perfect as a pet and perfect for my son who was born without thumbs. Due to his size and hands he is most likely never going to play competitive sports so I am trying to provide him neat and interesting things that don't involve thumbs or athletic prowess! So far we have gone to all the local pet shops and even a reptile expo yesterday and both my kids love the snakes and hold them with no trepidation! So anyway, my question is that if your parents got you a BP, what morph would you have wanted(under $300) and what sex if you might later get into breeding?


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Very good advice from Dragonboy, I'd say just find a morph that you really like the looks of and go to another expo or buy one from a reputable online breeder.
There are plenty of cool looking morphs in that price range. Maybe a Spider or a Pastel, it all depends on what you like. Welcome to the hobby, I got my first normal female a year ago. I've gotten 3 more (morphs) since.

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Originally Posted by dragonboy4578

There are many different morphs that you can get for that price. The best advice is to start looking at sites like kingsnake.com and find a few bp's that appeal to you that are in your price range. Personally if you are thinking about breeding I would be more inclined on getting a female. They take longer to get to breeding age. Please take time to read the caresheet on this site to make sure that you are providing the best care for your new snake, and ask questions. I hate to see anyone have problems because their set up is wrong, or incorrect husbandry....

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Ive done live coral and saltwater fish myself so I understand the newb mentality that can result in the death of new pets. I don't intend to let that happen. So far I have gotten a exo-terra 40g breeder size tank. I've put cypress substrate down and put flex watt tape underneath. I put about a foot piece( of the 11") underneath the warm side and a close to 2' piece under the cool-side. I just ordered a herpestat II to so I can set the cool to 80 and the warm to 90 as measured on the substrate. I've got a warm and cool hide and some fake plants. Right now I'm just waiting for the herpestat to be delivered and have been trying to tweak the humidity by closing up the screens on top. I don't plan on getting the snake until it is stable! Anyway, I really want to make this a flawless process for my son and just educate and familiarize him over the next few years so that if he wants to breed it he is prepaired.



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That cage is too large for a baby. Do you plan on buying an adult? You could always temporarily house it in a tub until it is large enough.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

That cage is too large for a baby. Do you plan on buying an adult? You could always temporarily house it in a tub until it is large enough.

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No, but I have put smaller hides and a bunch of fake plants hoping it will make a hatchling feel secure enough.


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It may, but it may not. Often times hatchlings do not feed well in larger enclosures because they do not feel secure. However, it can be done - just make sure you get a strong feeder and you should be okay.

Here is my son posing with his older sister behind him!

http://img.tapatalk.com/cfe11ac9-8460-b480.jpg


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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

That cage is too large for a baby. Do you plan on buying an adult? You could always temporarily house it in a tub until it is large enough.

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Yes, that's right. You don't want to go over 20gal for a baby and even then you'd need to clutter it up a fair bit to help it feel secure. A 40gal is too big for a hatchling even with extra hides and plants. An insecure baby will eventually go off feed. A tub is a good temporary choice or an older juvenile or young adult might be a better choice. You should still be able to pick up a young adult pastel, spider, pin, or even perhaps a lesser for under/around $300.

And also, your probe for the t-stat should be under the substrate directly on the glass over the flexwatt - not on top of the substrate. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

No, but I have put smaller hides and a bunch of fake plants hoping it will make a hatchling feel secure enough.


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Honestly I think that's still too big as well for a hatchling. If anything, I'd get a little 10g or a tub (what I recommend personally: can't go wrong with a good tub setup) and once the BP is large enough stick him or her in the 40g.

Also for choosing a morph, I'd get one that you like as well just in case down the road your son "grows out of" it and you may be stuck with it. Not trying to be a downer just giving you another side to things!

Good luck

I've never had a problem with larger cages so long as plenty of hides were made available.

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

Yes, that's right. You don't want to go over 20gal for a baby and even then you'd need to clutter it up a fair bit to help it feel secure. A 40gal is too big for a hatchling even with extra hides and plants. An insecure baby will eventually go off feed. A tub is a good temporary choice or an older juvenile or young adult might be a better choice. You should still be able to pick up a young adult pastel, spider, pin, or even perhaps a lesser for under/around $300.

And also, your probe for the t-stat should be under the substrate directly on the glass over the flexwatt - not on top of the substrate. :gj:

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I plan on putting the probes directly over the glass but adjusting the temp until I get close to the desired substrate temps. If I get a BP was born in July is the cage still too big?


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Yes. Only a full grown adult would feel comfortable in that size cage.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Yes. Only a full grown adult would feel comfortable in that size cage.

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How old is that?


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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

How old is that?


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It depends on the snake: not all snakes grow at the same rate so a BP at one year may or may not be the same size as another that's a year old as well.

Also, "full grown" can mean different things as well: some people consider a full grown BP at ~1000 grams while some think a full grown BP is larger or slightly smaller sized than that.

Some other BPs to consider for under 300. Yellowbelly, Orange Ghost, Cinnamon, Mojave, Fire. Just to name a few.

A full grown MALE would be closer to 1000g, but females would be closer to 1800 or more. Of course they keep growing a lot of the times, but I think this is a good cut off point.

I still recommend getting a temporary tub. Your adult enclosure sounds nice. Most people don't use flexwatt on a thermostat on the coolside, so I'm guessing ambient temps in your home are a bit low. In a smaller enclosure, you may not have to worry about it as much.

I think it is admirable that you are doing this for you son, just remember you won't know until you have the snake at home and it stops eating. None of us want that. Tub setups are cheap and you can use the flexwatt with thermostat on them as well for the time being, and move it over as it grows. You really don't need anything extra but that tub. And another tub midway through growth. Start with a 15qt and move up to a 28qt around 800-1000g (depends on individual snake), and then once it gets up to a good 1500g I think you could possible move it over. This process could take a couple years, maybe a little less.

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

Ive done live coral and saltwater fish myself so I understand the newb mentality that can result in the death of new pets. I don't intend to let that happen. So far I have gotten a exo-terra 40g breeder size tank. I've put cypress substrate down and put flex watt tape underneath. I put about a foot piece( of the 11") underneath the warm side and a close to 2' piece under the cool-side. I just ordered a herpestat II to so I can set the cool to 80 and the warm to 90 as measured on the substrate. I've got a warm and cool hide and some fake plants. Right now I'm just waiting for the herpestat to be delivered and have been trying to tweak the humidity by closing up the screens on top. I don't plan on getting the snake until it is stable! Anyway, I really want to make this a flawless process for my son and just educate and familiarize him over the next few years so that if he wants to breed it he is prepaired.



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A 20 gallon long tank will be comfortable for a baby and will suit him/her all the way up into adulthood.

Regarding morphs, I would highly recommend a female baby lesser or a female spider. Since he's going to be mostly interested in raising it for the first few years, by the time he gets interested in breeding, she should be old enough to lay eggs. My first snake was a baby normal female and 3 years later I was very glad I had chosen a female by random chance and not a male. Adult females are way more expensive and adult female morphs are even harder to come by.

The advice given is very good advice. Tub systems cost next to nothing. If you're willing to invest in the herpstat 2, I am guessing you won't mind dishing out a bit more money to set up a temporary tub. Here is a thread on how to set up a tub for cheap. All you need to buy is a UTH from your local petstore, or if you prefer to work with flexwatt that works as well, and then all that is left is the 15 quart tub! You already have hides, substrate and a thermostat so those are the hard parts already.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basics...*DUW*

How are you measuring temps? If you buy one model of the accurite thermometer/hygrometer, which is $13, you can measure temps and humidity for your snake probably for the rest of its life.

And I dont think anyone really touched on the gender subject. Since your kids are younger, I personally would rather get a male for my kids because they usually dont get as big as females do. Males max out at around 3.5 -4 feet, Females usually grow to 4-4.5 feet if fed properly during its first 18 months. However, ball pythons are generally pretty timid and shy creatures and getting a female would not be a problem either. By the time the snake is bigger, your kids would be used to it already. The reason the feeding response at the beginning of a hatchling's life is because it has most of its growth spurts during the first years of its life so if improper living conditions are given, then your snake may not reach its physical potential. This all sounds pretty exciting and I can tell you are excited as well. :) Its great to see members on here who are willing to do whatever it takes to make their snakes happy.

I do agree with everyone that it may be a bit large to start. I would like to give my experience though.

I recently bought a couple babies myself. Both '11's. I had one in a homemade enclosure that was much larger than 40gal, and the other in a 20g tall. ( all temps and humidity are good for those wondering =P ).

In the large homemade enclosure, there were a total of 4 hides, and 1 ledge higher than the lighting. Plenty of fake plants and decorations. Lots to climb on and crevasses ( that weren't hides ) to hide in. He was eating like a champ. Liked to climb around and 'explore' at night. Would hide a lot during the day ( of course ). Never defensive or showed signs of stress (after the first day or two or anyways). I did recently move him into a smaller enclosure to put my '09 female in the bigger enclosure. He still eats great with no issues.

The other baby in the 20g tall has 2 hides and some other decorations. Same deal. Never defensive or showing signs of stress. Eats without hesitation.

I am by no means saying that you should house a small snake in a large enclosure, as it 'can' lead to stress. I am just giving my current experience in it. I have never had a problem as long as there were plenty of places to hide. If you do decide to keep the larger enclosure for the little one, I would just make sure to add more than 2 hides in my opinion.

My $.02 :)

But like I said, it all depends on the individual snake and you won't know until you have it.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

But like I said, it all depends on the individual snake and you won't know until you have it.

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I agree =)

So this is at least something I could try without serious negative effect? Id like to see if it will do alright in the tank just cause I have it. What would a reasonable test be? Maybe go 2 weeks and if it doesn't eat move it? Here is the tank in question:

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6cd8c53-6947-4945.jpg

I'm gonna add two more hides before trying!


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Yeah, I would say that there wouldn't be a problem with at least trying it out and see how it does imo. I would honestly probably give it 3 weeks though. The first week you don't want to do anything but leave it alone and give it a chance to settle in before trying to feed. Then if it won't eat for the next two weeks, I would try a smaller enclosure.

Just make sure that if it won't take F/T, try live or pre-killed before ruling it as stress related imo. My little one wouldn't take F/T but took live without issues after the first week in a large enclosure.

It will likely roam around a bit at all hours during the first week. If it settles in to roaming mostly just at night and hiding during the day, I would say your 'probably' ok.

I would say the extra hides are a good idea, just to give plenty of options. Enclosure looks great though ! =) Hopefully it all works out for you and your son.=P

Its beautiful. You may stress out your new baby snake, but like I said - go for one that is an aggressive feeder. Ask the breeder, and tell them its important.

Like Rich said, it will likely take about a week to settle in, especially in that size cage.
Once it settles in a hide, you should be okay. I would give it 3-4 weeks before worrying.

Good news is, if you have issues, you just need to buy a 15qt tub and move the components over for a bit.

Definitely add a few more hides if you are going to try this enclosure first. Also, I suggest switching that log hide out for one that's more like the cave hide. Wide openings like the log make it feel less secure - if you can see him/her, so could a predator! Best of luck and welcome!

If enclosure size is the main problem and you don't want to use a tub, then how about sectioning off your tank w/ a divider? (your tank is gorgeous by the way)

You can still use your tank and the baby will still have a small enclosure to live and feel safe. As it grows, you can always move your divider accordingly until your snake can comfortably live in the whole set up.


Edit: Also, it helps if you cover the sides of your tank as well. Your baby will feel more secure. Some people use black paper, a themed background, cardboard, etc.

So here is the girl we just picked up for him! Just weighed in at 152g. First image is a little washed out.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMG_0500.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMG_0503.jpg

That's the first time my wife has ever held a snake by the way! She did pretty good!

Nice spider! You'll have to get some pics of her in the terrarium once she's all settled :D

Here she is in the branch! I got black foam board to put on the sides that I'm putting on tomorrow. There are 3 hides now and I think I'm going to add one or two of the cheap black hides. Also I think I am going to go down to about a 1/2" of substrate so I don't have to run the flex watt so high to get the proper surface temps. Currently I have my herpestat II set to 115 and 110 to get 90 and 80 on the surface and that is with only an inch of substrate.

http://img.tapatalk.com/cfe11ac9-8442-2a45.jpg


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my .02 cents on the tank i just started out with a tank the snake did very well at feeding and stress how ever the humidity was too difficult to keep up along with the temps my poor baby had his first shed bad i switched him the temp steadied then the humidity did too

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

So here is the girl we just picked up for him! Just weighed in at 152g. First image is a little washed out.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMG_0500.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMG_0503.jpg

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Adorable!! Spiders are such pretty snakes!

Grats on the snake, it's a beauty. Personally I think you should be ok with that setup. Through a couple people at an expo repeatedly telling me "oh, it'll be fine, it'll be fine" and my rush to grab a setup I wound up with a 48"x16"x16" monster of a tank (all my research and everything was completely forgotten as I got rushed), and my little hatchling (about 70 grams) got tossed in the tank after I set it up that day. Well maybe I just got extremely lucky or something because he's loved it since day one, and is now pushing 300 grams and now hides all day and I need put everything back in place every morning as he apparently has raging parties or something at night :). He's never missed a meal, and will gladly take an extra when its available.

Now I made a lot of mistakes that I'll never do again, but at least this one ended happily....i.e. I've now got a small tub all setup for a snake I won't get for a couple more weeks.

Good luck goin that first week without touchin your first snake....it's tough.

BTW, has anyone mentuined about a "wobble" to look out for? Others on here can explain it much better than me, but it's something that some Spiders get (don't worry, at this point6 I don't think it's any big deal to worry about)

So far so good! She just gobbled down a 24g rat pup. Amazing the size they can eat! My son loves her so I think this was definitely a good investment!

http://img.tapatalk.com/cfe11ac9-e06d-e6d8.jpg


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That's a great picture! Congrats on the new baby!

I think your setup looks fine for that size snake. Its bigger than a hatchling so as long as the tank is cluttered up and she has several hides, she should do fine. You'd mentioned using less substrate and that's a good idea. Using less will actually help prevent overheating. It sound counter-productive, I know, but too much substrate can cause a buildup of heat over time and create a too-warm temp zone. Using less allows the heat to filter through the substrate better and provide the proper temps long-term. 1/2 an inch is just about perfect. :gj: