Cannible Rats?!

One of my females just had 13 babies. They were doing good, all the other momas taking care of them, and I go to check on them the next morning and there is absolute CARNAGE. Babies ripped completley in half, blood on the sides of the tub, some of the babies were flattened out (bones broken). Some even had their bellies slit open and their organs EATEN!

Now theres onyl 4 left out of 13. They don't look too good, and I don't expect them to live long.

Why do rats do this? I knew that rats cannablize sometimes, but I didn't expect it.

I'm not positive as to why they do it, but sometimes our rats do it when they don't get enough protein. They might eat each other if they aren't feed enough. We had that happen when we went on vacation and our neighbor was neglecting to feed our rats properly.

Sorry to hear about the babies :(

I read somewhere that female rats will eat their babies if they have a lack of protein or if they have too many babies. But since there were nursing mothers together, I don't think 13 babies would be too much of a problem at all.

I couldn't imagine how much of a gory crime scene that had to have looked like :(.

Not enough water, low quality food and or not enough of it. Female was stressed out and body took a hit, so she ate to replenish herself.

If this is her first time doing this, give it ONE more shot. If it happens again then time to replace them, it happens to the best of us once in a while

I fear this

What you feeding them actually what's their container look like. What kind of feed. If its none of that could be space, or maybe.its the first time I Duno. A lot of factors

Sorry to hear that happened to you. :( I had a first-time female who dropped a litter of 7 and ate/killed all of them earlier this week as well. One of my other females, also a first-time mom, had a litter of 9 and is raising them just fine. Exact same conditions, setup, food type, water, etc. I don't know why they do it...could be any of the factors people already mentioned or something else entirely. Like Rich said, I'd say give her at least one more try before you write her off as a loss. Hope the remaining babies pull through for you and things work out better than they started. Good luck!

What are you feeding?

These rats have had MANY litters together without any problems. This is the first time this has happened.

I feed Ol'e Roy dog food mixed with some sunflower seeds. I sometimes give them biscuts, fresh greens, etc. They have been on this kind of diet since March of last year without any problems. They are nice and plump, and when they have litters, they have BIG litters. I had one that had 21 babies.

Right now they are in sterillite tubs with big sqaures cut out on the sides with quarter inch mesh covering them. My father and I are going to build a nice big 6 tub rack for them this month.

I ALWAYS make sure they have clean water at all times. I check on them multiple times everyday, and change their bedding twice a week.

If theres anything more I can do to make them happier please tell me.

Thanks.

Retire them, Their wore out and its taking a toll on their bodies.

I retire females once they hit 1-1.5 years old

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Retire them, Their wore out and its taking a toll on their bodies.

I retire females once they hit 1-1.5 years old

---

there are 4 rats in the tub. 2 I'm def going to retire, but the other 2 are actually quite young and can still keep going on.

Right now I'm starting to hold off on the breeding because my freezer is full.

So what do I do with them? I don't want to euthanize them. Maybe try and sell them as pets?

Ol roy and sunflower seeds is not a healthy diet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Ol roy and sunflower seeds is not a healthy diet.

---

A bunch of the websites that I read about before breeding the rats said that dog food mixed with black sunflower seeds is a suitable diet.

They do great on this diet, I've never had sick rats before, they are nice and plump (but not fat). I also mix that diet with other things like fresh vegetables and the occasional treat.

Whats wrong with the diet?

Dog food is too high in Fat and Protein that will cause liver and kidney problems.

They are more prone to Tumors and patchy fur when on dog food. Also On dog food, females bodies take a bigger hit after birth and uually retire sooner than that fed a proper diet.

My females drop 15-24pinks consistantly for 1-2 years. I retire them once they drop below 10

Ok, so whats a better diet? I know about mazuri, but the local feed store will NOT call me back on wether they can get it or not (I've called them 3 times and nothing). What is a good all around diet I can give them?

What is a suitable food for rats? The dog food my husband feeds the rats has the same amount of protein and fat as rodent foods, such as mazuri. He's been using this specific dog food for awhile and has never had any of the issues mentioned above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heathers*bps

What is a suitable food for rats? The dog food my husband feeds the rats has the same amount of protein and fat as rodent foods, such as mazuri. He's been using this specific dog food for awhile and has never had any of the issues mentioned above.

---

What dog food is this? What brand?

I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head, but he buys it at Tractor Supply. Big white bag with blue and Orange lettering on it. It's like $14 for a huge bag.

Oh! It's called Doggie Bag, pretty simple name for me to not remember right off, lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heathers*bps

I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head, but he buys it at Tractor Supply. Big white bag with blue and Orange lettering on it. It's like $14 for a huge bag.

---

I live right next to a tractor supply. I'll go over there and look. If you ever remember the name PM me please.

i use Kent Rodent Feed.

I pay $10 a 50lbs bag when i order by the Pallet. If not then its $13 for 50lbs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

i use Kent Rodent Feed.

I pay $10 a 50lbs bag when i order by the Pallet. If not then its $13 for 50lbs

---

That's a real decent price. Where do you get that at?

Do not feed Doggy bag dog food. It's bad enough to feed it to your dogs, but that trash will wreck your rats. It is the lowest of the low quality foods available.

Why would you ever feed it to a rodent, when high quality rodent block is the same price.

My rats choose the Mazuri rat block over the Doggy Bag ANY day.

I got a bag of Doggy Bag the first time thinking I was going to mix it with Mazuri and scrimp a little. They ate/wasted more of the doggy bag than they do the Mazuri. I am mixing it now just to get rid of that horrible bag and they eat all the Mazuri block and leave the Doggy Bag. My rats also get treats and left overs all the time and results were the same.

Do your rats a favor and get them RAT food.

Even though Doggy Bag is dog food, I wouldn't feed it to my dogs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aldebono

My rats choose the Mazuri rat block over the Doggy Bag ANY day.

---

While I agree that you should feed rodent block over dog food, especially when it's around the same price, I disagree that the rats prefer the Mazuri. As it was described to me, they go for Doggy Bag the way that kids go for McDonald's. In my experience they go for the DB before the rodent block.

If I was paying $30 for a 50lb bag of Mazuri like some people have to, I would be mixing in DB to cut the cost. Some have had really good results with it.

YMMV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnNJ

While I agree that you should feed rodent block over dog food, especially when it's around the same price, I disagree that the rats prefer the Mazuri. As it was described to me, they go for Doggy Bag the way that kids go for McDonald's. In my experience they go for the DB before the rodent block.

If I was paying $30 for a 50lb bag of Mazuri like some people have to, I would be mixing in DB to cut the cost. Some have had really good results with it.

YMMV

---

Thats where mixing in Whole oats and Grains from Feed stores comes into play. Id never use dog food ever for something my snakes will eat. Healthy growth in snakes starts with the food your rats eat.

And rodents go after the dog food cause its junk. ITs liek a treat to them and the will eat it all the time. And will eat a lot of it as its not healthy for them.

I read the same thing that they will eat the Doggy Bag first, but not mine. All the mazuri is gone the next day and the Doggy Bag is scattered around and ignored.

I know what is said but I also know what I am seeing when I open my bins the next day. Maybe my rats are just cultured and know its junk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Thats where mixing in Whole oats and Grains from Feed stores comes into play. Id never use dog food ever for something my snakes will eat. Healthy growth in snakes starts with the food your rats eat.

---

A bag of rolled oats from TSC is $18. That's more than I pay for the lab block. How is that saving any money? I give the oats to them but not to save money.

And you're overthinking the effect of the rats on your snake's health or growth.

As an aside, I would never feed DB dog food to mice or ASF's. It makes them nuts.

I pay $9 for 50lbs bag of Oats

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

I pay $9 for 50lbs bag of Oats

---

Yes, but you live in Michigan. In life there are trade offs. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnNJ

Yes, but you live in Michigan. In life there are trade offs. :D

---

Shop around, TSC is not a feed store so they sell at Retail Prices.

Go to a feed store and they carry 4-5 diff types of oats

I agree, my oats are much cheaper from a store OTHER than tsc. you shouldn't be spending more than about $10 on oats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I agree, my oats are much cheaper from a store OTHER than tsc. you shouldn't be spending more than about $10 on oats.

---

I will look for another feed store. I live in the suburbs of New York City so not a lot of feed stores around. The feed stores that are close sell to upscale clients and sell top of the line dog and cat food.

I travel almost 80 miles round trip to get to the closest TSC and it's like being in another world when I'm there. I have to load up on everything to make the trip worth the gas.