New owner needing help

About a month and a half ago impulse bought a normal ball python hatchling from PetsMart. I made sure I got all I needed for a happy, healthy BP though. :) I've done as much research online as I can, and I'm just falling in love with BPs in general.

But I do need some help. Well, first, is there a way to tell the sex of a ball python without taking it to the vet? I just sort of decided that she looked like a girl, and so I named her Chapel. But I'd like to know for sure what sex she is, though I can't really afford a vet visit unless 100% necessary due to an illness (hope not, though!).

Second, I noticed she went in hiding for several days and when she came back out she was shedding. So I looked up information on shedding and found out that she is having a poor shed. Her belly half is shed, but the top of her isn't, and some dead skin is on her nose and head. I tried to gently roll away skin with my hand as well as with a warm washcloth, but it didn't work. So I began more closely monitoring heat and humidity levels, and since then more skin is shedding in bits and pieces, and I'm hoping she will finish and have a complete shed next time.

Third, she hasn't eaten once. The PetsMart label said she was captive bred, which is good, but I've had her for a month and a half and have wasted 3 frozen pinkie mice now. I've tried different thawing and warming methods, I've tried moving the mice with tongs, leaving the mouse still with tongs, and even leaving it in the cage overnight and covering the sides. There are two things I haven't tried: scenting the pinkie with gerbil bedding from a pet store (which I plan to do next; I last tried feeding last night to no avail), and freshly killed. But I'm far too squeamish to try fresh killed, plus I'm not sure where I would even get live mice that tiny and young.

If gerbil scent doesn't work, what do I do? My ball python is getting skinny, and when she curls I'm noticing skin folds. :(

I just want a healthy ball python, but I need some help, and would appreciate any feedback. Thanks! :)

PS - By the way, the enclosure is a 20 long glass aquarium with a secure lid. I got it as part of a snake startup kit that included a thermometer and whatnot. I have a humidity mist, a couple of logs, a soak/water dish, and a hide rock.

Welcome to the site! Please look over the caresheet.

Can you describe your set up in detail? Including temps, humidity, and how you are reading both?

Pictures would be most helpful.

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Originally Posted by LGray23

Welcome to the site! Please look over the caresheet.

Can you describe your set up in detail? Including temps, humidity, and how you are reading both?

Pictures would be most helpful.

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X2
From what you've said about the shed it already sounds like you need higher humidity, most people try a moist towel over the top or tin foil to trap more humidity inside.

Temp stays around 85 in general, and I've recently not let the humidity fall below 60% the past 3 days since I noted the problem, sometimes it's up around 70%. I've also been replacing the water/soak dish daily with lukewarm water, and I've already been keeping a towel over part of the screen lid.

Since you mentioned getting a reptile starter kit from the pet store, I'll make some assumptions about your setup. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

In those reptile kits, they generally have those cheap dial-type guages. Those can be highly inaccurate, so most opinions here would be to ditch them and go with a digital thermometer/hygrometer combo. You can find one at Walmart for $12 that measures hot side and cool side temps and humidity, all in one device. Another question regarding your existing thermometers, where in the tank do you have them mounted? I see most people sticking them high up on the wall of the tank, which isn't measuring the temps your snake will be exposed to. With the digital one I'm referring to, you put the probe for the hot side under the hide so you know the real temps your bp is feeling...

Also, in those reptile starter kits, they include a lamp for heating the enclosure. The problem with lamps is that they will dry out the air quicker than anything. Also, they don't provide anything to regulate the lamp (thermostat, rheostat or dimmer) so I'm going to assume the lamp is running at 100% while it's on... It is possible that it's getting TOO hot for your snake... You should be providing a warm side and a cool side. The warm side should be 90-92 and the cooler side should be 80-82...

Definitely have a read through the caresheet LGray posted. Good luck with your little one!

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

Since you mentioned getting a reptile starter kit from the pet store, I'll make some assumptions about your setup. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

In those reptile kits, they generally have those cheap dial-type guages. Those can be highly inaccurate, so most opinions here would be to ditch them and go with a digital thermometer/hygrometer combo. You can find one at Walmart for $12 that measures hot side and cool side temps and humidity, all in one device. Another question regarding your existing thermometers, where in the tank do you have them mounted? I see most people sticking them high up on the wall of the tank, which isn't measuring the temps your snake will be exposed to. With the digital one I'm referring to, you put the probe for the hot side under the hide so you know the real temps your bp is feeling...

Also, in those reptile starter kits, they include a lamp for heating the enclosure. The problem with lamps is that they will dry out the air quicker than anything. Also, they don't provide anything to regulate the lamp (thermostat, rheostat or dimmer) so I'm going to assume the lamp is running at 100% while it's on... It is possible that it's getting TOO hot for your snake... You should be providing a warm side and a cool side. The warm side should be 90-92 and the cooler side should be 80-82...

Definitely have a read through the caresheet LGray posted. Good luck with your little one!

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^^^ Totally agree with all this!

1) If you ARE using those dial temp/humidity gages, and your tank has a screen top, I can pretty much garuantee that your humidity is no where near 70 or even 60%. Your snake should have a perfect shed if the humidity was around 70%. In these setups, 40-50% is more realistic. You can achieve the higher humidity, but its going to take a little work and some slight modification. First, get rid of the lamps as has already been suggested. Then you'll need to cover about 80% of the screen lid with foil or wax paper (I use painters tape to seal it along the plastic edges and leave about a 1" gap for ventilation along the back). A towel is not enough. Here is a pick of my adult BP's tank to give you an idea:
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...lascage009.jpg
You'll also need to mist every day for about a week when you see your snake go blue as he's getting ready to shed up until the day he sheds. You'll have perfect sheds in no time.

2) Your temps are a bit too warm if the ambient is at 85. Are your heating elements on a thermostat??? If not, get one at once! Do NOT guess with temps and do NOT take the chance of not using a good t-stat. A rheostat will suffice if necessary for a little while. The Accurite thermometer is a good choice for measuring the temps (about $12 at WalMart) and I recommend the Herpstat or the Vivarium Electronics VE-100 (or a higher model if you can afford it) for a thermostat (Reptile Basics or Pro Products has these).

3) You need 2 identical hides - one on the cool side and one on the warm side. BPs will often choose security over temps and therefore won't properly thermoregulate. Pick a nice snug fitting hide that has only 1 opening and get 2 of them. You can clutter up the rest of the cage with various other choices and logs.

4) BPs will often go off feed if they feel insecure or if temps aren't right so fixing the above items may be all it'll take for your guy to eat. But in the meantime, I wouldn't use gerbil scent for your mice! Once a BP gets "imprinted" on a scent, it can be difficult to get them off of it. I would try to do live. PetSmart doesn't sell live mice, but there are other sources. Where are you located? We might be able to point out a reptile expo near you where you can go. And smaller local pet stores might have them too. Once you try and he refuses, wait at least 5 days before trying again. Don't handle him at all unless absolutely necessary during this time. Give him time to relax and settle down. Picky eaters are not uncommon, but they are a pain in the butt....

5) A vet can sex your snake, but there are often nice breeders and other experts at area reptile expos who may be willing to help you with this. DO NOT TRY TO DO THIS YOURSELF!!! You can seriously injure your snake by either popping or probing if you are not sure what you're doing. But let's get him eating first and fix the other issues and then worry about sexing him. Taking him off to a rept expo will cause some stress so we want to be sure he's eating regularly first.

6) Keep us posted! :gj:

Quick update until I get time to read the replies - I tried feeding her earlier. She struck the frozen pinkie, but it fell off the tongs and she wouldn't take it again despite nearly an hour of trying.

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Originally Posted by theJuju

Quick update until I get time to read the replies - I tried feeding her earlier. She struck the frozen pinkie, but it fell off the tongs and she wouldn't take it again despite nearly an hour of trying.

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Ok, it's a step in the right direction! Hang in there. Make sure the mouse is warm enough. Feel along the ribs and under the arms making sure its completely thawed. It should feel about as warm or very slightly warmer than your hand. Wait a day or two and try again. Hold it firmly with the tongs and try not to jerk when she strikes. :gj:

WEll I will throw my :twocents: in this sounds like security issues. Hopefully you have looked at the care sheet and have 2 identical hides. So Next thing I would do is cover 3 sides of you PB tank (see pic1) with anything that works Brown paper bags blak contact paper or I used aquarium background I liked. For the humidity issues I coever the top of my aquarium screens with Plexi (see pic 2) with a few holes drilled in it. Keeps my humidity great :) Hope this helps get your little guy eating soon:)

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...29230124_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5501545_n.jpg

A pinkie mouse may be too small of a meal to entice a feeding reaction from your snake, generally baby ball pythons should be eating small adult mice or fuzzy-crawler rats, if you pick up a hopper - small frozen mouse and try that you may have a better feeding response.

your in knoxville??? dang i miss knoxville:( anyway) if your wanting to know the sex, call larry @ "the critter barn" and ask him if he might sex it for ya.. there close to campus,,,,, or try caling michael @ "fins and skins" (west knoxville) and he might do it as well..... might wanna try a live fuzzy or something, just to stimulate eating....
spooky

Here is a photo of my current 20 gallon long setup. I wanted to go ahead and post it while I finish reading the information everyone has provided and respond back here in a few minutes. :)

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1879/downloadpt.jpg

Okay, so let me make a list of everything that it looks like I need to change.

1) Buy an accu-rite digital thermometer/hygrometer from Walmart for around $15 to replace the cheap dial one at the top of the cage. This will measure both the cool and warm sides of the cage.

2) Get rid of both the day heat lamp and the purple nighttime heat lamp. Get an under the tank heating source, such as Flexwatt, perhaps. If I get Flexwatt, what size should I get? Does anyone have specific recommendations as to product, size, and wattage?

3) Get a second hide rock. Does the one I have in the current setup I posted above look too big? My BP seems to like it well enough, but I don't know if a second one of those will fit in the current setup. I thought it was a plenty big enough tank until she got to adult size, but I don't know how to make everything fit. :P Also, does it look like the water dish is big enough?

4) Either cover the current screen top with aluminum foil, leaving some ventilation space, or get a plexiglass lid for a 20 gallon long tank. I'd prefer something more aesthetically pleasing than the foil, but I don't know where to get a secure plexiglass lid, or how much it would be.

5) Buy some aquarium background and leave only one side of the tank uncovered, that way my BP has security.

Is that everything?

Also, what should first priority? Even something like spending an extra $15 a week will really throw off my budget, so I've got to try and fix this stuff over the course of a couple of weeks. =/

Thanks so much!!

Oh, and mr.spooky, thanks so much! Ya, I'm pretty fond of Knoxville, and I live about 2 minutes from fins n skins. I'll stop by there Monday or Tuesday. :D

Eating is more important, but if I'm not mistaken, Pet Smart only sales 'male' animals. That could be referring to the rodents though, but I was thinking it was for everything as they don't want people breeding unless they WANT too. I could be totally wrong in that though.

As for eating, I had a new one that didn't want to eat F/T. Offered a live, and it was full on then. I do plan on swapping over to F/T at some point when he gets a little bigger, but right now I just want him eating.

you can go to Lowes with the measurements of the top of your tank and pick up a piece of plexi-glass ( acrylic or lexan ) and they will cut it to your specifications. You can get an 18x24in piece of pretty thin acrylic for about $9. You don't have to mount it on the top of your screen lid, you can just set it up there so hold in the humidity.

You could then use a drill or heat up the end of a phillips screwdriver to put holes in the the plexi without breaking it. *make sure to do it outside as melting acrylic doesn't smell too pleasant*

If pet smart is close, they should have a 'small-medium' exoterra UTH for around $18 that should work fine.

An identical hide is good, but as long as it is 'somewhat similar' I think it would be ok. I don't have matching hides in any of my setups and the BP's swap to wherever they need. They are all nice and dark with only one entrance/exit. That's what really matters imo.

You can use a dark towel or something on the back of the tank for now to save ya some money if need be ( i have done this in the past ).

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Originally Posted by theJuju

Third, she hasn't eaten once. The PetsMart label said she was captive bred, which is good, but I've had her for a month and a half and have wasted 3 frozen pinkie mice now. I've tried different thawing and warming methods, I've tried moving the mice with tongs, leaving the mouse still with tongs, and even leaving it in the cage overnight and covering the sides. There are two things I haven't tried: scenting the pinkie with gerbil bedding from a pet store (which I plan to do next; I last tried feeding last night to no avail), and freshly killed. But I'm far too squeamish to try fresh killed, plus I'm not sure where I would even get live mice that tiny and young.

If gerbil scent doesn't work, what do I do? My ball python is getting skinny, and when she curls I'm noticing skin folds. :(

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Sounds like she is dehydrated and getting extremely skinny, which is how most balls from Pet(not so)Smart usually are.

PetSmart sells captive HATCHED. They are imported from Africa from eggs that were either laid in captivity by gravid wild caught females or by eggs collected from the wild. Few, if any, have even eaten before being imported, so I highly doubt your snake has even eaten yet.

That said, pinkie mice are WAAAAY too small of a meal, even for the smallest hatchlings. Right out of the egg 99% of balls can be started on rat fuzzies with the rare undersized hatchling requiring rat pinkies. Rat pinks/fuzzies are many times larger than mouse pinks/fuzzies. Ball pythons, especially those that are not established feeders, can be some of the hardest snakes to convert to f/t. A lot will simply NEVER eat f/t, even if it means they starve themselves to death. Being that your ball is still young, they cannot go for that long without food like an adult can. Your best bet right now would be to offer your snake live rat pinks or rat fuzzies or at the very least a live mouse hopper, depending on your snakes weight and health. Ideally you should be feeding your snake a meal that is 10-15% of their body weight every 5 days. Since it has been so long I would start off with slightly smaller than normal meals (but WAY bigger than mouse pinkies) and feed him more frequently to get his metabolism going for a few feedings.

As to where to get live feeders, check local mom & pop pet stores, craigslist, faunaclassifieds, etc. Those will be your best bet. If all else fails, just get one from PetSmart. Play it cool like it will be a pet because they do not sell live feeders. You will overpay for it, but beggers can't be chosers sometimes.

OK, thanks for the advice! I'll try bigger prey here soon, possibly live.

I also went by a local pet shop and they said the Zilla UTH heater won't be enough to heat the warm side to 85-90 degrees, and I'd need a light on top of the cage, too?

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Originally Posted by theJuju

OK, thanks for the advice! I'll try bigger prey here soon, possibly live.

I also went by a local pet shop and they said the Zilla UTH heater won't be enough to heat the warm side to 85-90 degrees, and I'd need a light on top of the cage, too?

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Blasphemy! Unless your house is really cold. The UTH is used for belly heat and you will actually want it to be 90-92 degrees. Cool side should be about 80 and ambient temp somewhere between. Ball pythons do NOT need supplemental light. They are just trying to make a sale, end of story.

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Originally Posted by AK907

Blasphemy! Unless your house is really cold. The UTH is used for belly heat and you will actually want it to be 90-92 degrees. Cool side should be about 80 and ambient temp somewhere between. Ball pythons do NOT need supplemental light. They are just trying to make a sale, end of story.

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Okay. :P So the Zilla UTH pad will keep the warm side around 90 by itself?

Also! I have an UPDATE!!! My BP ate the thawed pinkie for the first time ever just now!! This is the happiest I've been all week! I am so relieved, and it was such an awesome and amazing thing to watch! I'm gonna post a few pictures in the photo area. :D

I appreciate all of the advice, and am going to make sure I get her home set up how it should be. I'm so happy she ate, though!

I can't edit my last reply, so I apologize for a double post, but I fed her a second (and the last of what I had) and she ate it, too. :D

I put the pics here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ime!&p=1697075

So happy right now! :banana: