Heat Questions in Colorado

I am going to be buying my son a ball python for X-mas. I am currently getting the terrarium together so that I can ensure that it is working correctly before getting the snake. I keep hearing mixed advice on what I should do regarding heating. Guys at work told me to just throw in a heat rock and your good to go (I won't be going with this advice). Anyway the advice that I'm leaning towards right now is to put an UTH under a 3rd of the tank and hook it to a thermostat with the probe inside of the warm side hide. One issue I have is choosing the thermostat. I have reef aquariums with live coral and have learned the lesson of using cheap parts and then paying the price later. So I want to get the right thermostat now. Then the other issue I have is that I live in Colorado where it can get pretty cold in the winter. In my house I typically run my thermostat at 64° during the day on weekdays and every night, then run it at 67° the rest of the time. So given the ambient temp in my house I am concerned that the 16W UTH will not be sufficient. What advice do you guys have?

Here is what I have so far:

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMG_0474.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMG_0475.jpg

As far as good, reliable thermostats go, I've heard that Herpstat and Helix are the best, with Ranco and Johnson not too far behind. You should definitely go for a proportional thermostat over an on/off if you're looking for the best. I would suggest getting a good digital thermometer/hygrometer and/or a temp gun too while you're at it, those dial ones you have usually aren't as accurate.

Glad to hear you won't be using a heat rock :P An UTH is the best to start with, and with the set-up you have it looks like a heat lamp might be the only way to effectively raise the ambient temp... unless you can get a small oil-filled heater to place near the enclosure? Heat bulbs will ruin humidity and you'll have to mist more often and cover the screen top with plexiglass, but it seems like the best option with such cool temps.

Other than that, once you get some fake plants/branches to put in there, your set-up looks good to go :gj:

Running a set up with cool rooms can be challenging. Herpstats VE300+ Helix or ecozones are all great thermostats basically the same differing menu systems ect. but great solid tools. johnsons and rancos are on off type that will work but often struggle in cool conditions so I'd go proportional all the way they offer the most flexibility.

Cool rooms may need a second UTH for the cool side. If you have done you research (I feel like you have or are currently) you know that the cool side temps should be 80 hot side 90 and ambient air temps in the 78-85 range. To achieve this it is likely you will need to add insulation to the tank and also likely a second UTH (herpstat makes a unit that has 2 probes and will control dual sources) It can be a hard balance to manage. Very do-able, just a balancing act.

I too am from CO. I put a foam type shelf liner on 3 of the 4 sides of the cage, and then put 3-5 layers of tin foil over the top (I'm useing a 55gal tank). I dont have a problem with the heat or humidity.

Do the proportional type thermostats work with any UTH?


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If your doing a terrarium in cool rooms then you want a proportional thermostat like a spyder or a helix. I use johnsons on some racks and helix on others. No difference at all in performance out of my racks but proportional is the way to go with tanks. Uth is the way to go. You dont want heat rocks at all. They dont do a thing for temps in the tank.

Yes proportional units will work with UTHs most heaters in fact they don't work with lights however the lights will strobe and flicker like crazy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Cool rooms may need a second UTH for the cool side.

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Or that. I obviously forgot to put my brain in before I logged on yesterday :oops: But yes, if you end up getting a high end proportional that has 2 probes, then having a second heat mat set to maintain the cool side temp would be ideal. And yes, they will work with any UTH, however, every brand is a little different as far as how fast they heat up and heat output, so I would recommend getting two identical ones.

So should these mats be the manufacturer suggested size that only covers a third of the tank? Plus I'm thinking of getting the hepestat II is there a better place to by from or go straight through spyder?


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Dion at spyder is wonderful to deal with I have never seen much price variation so I'd deal with him directly.

If you do choose to run a dual system you would run a hot spot of 1/3 and a cool end of 1/2 to 2/3 . Basically most of the tank. Going with the HS II is a good (great) choice. It is perfect for your needs and would serve other needs in the future.

If it were me I'd look at a uth as it is easy and simple for the hot spot but I might go with heat cable for the cool end heater. The cable can be re jigged if needed and can be altered if needed too (like run along the back if the ambient air temps becomes an issue) It allows flexibility in set up and spacing if that is needed. I usually will suggest things that expand options rather than limit them.

So also where do I put the probes from the herpestat? There seems to be debate. I was thinking of putting one on the roof of the hot side hide and one on the roof of the cold side hide, but the manufacturers of things like flexwatt seem to say you're better putting it directly over the heat pad. I might be answering my own question here, but I'm thinking if I put it directly over the tape it won't adjust when the ambient temp in the room cools down. That close to the tape or pad I would think it would just be fat dumb and happy even if the enclosure is actually cold.

Dion recommends directly over the heat mat. This is the set up I'd recommend for a cold room as well. This is an interior placement so it is CRITICAL that the probe be snake proof. In any t-stat the probe must not move. It doesn't matter interior or exterior in must be firmy fixed. I would strongly recommend away from tape inside an enclosure for any reason. Personally I use hot melt glue this is non toxic and can be pried off if needed. It also can be re attached quickly and it only needs to cool down before the snake is returned to the enclosure.

Many will not recommend an interior placement but with cool room conditions and especially ones that vary it will provide accurate interior temps rather than having to adjust them as the ambient room temp changes.

So you're recommending putting the probe inside the tank against the glass on the bottom directly above the heating pad? My concern would be that this would tell me how hot the pad is, but not the substrate where the snake will be. I know that I can just use another thermometer to guage what to adjust the temp to but I'm concerned not just for the cold temps but the temp swings. If I set the temp based on an ambient temp of 67°(house temp) and then the temp swings down to 64°, I would think the temp on the probe would stay the same, but the temp on the substrate would go down. Anyway I got an Acurite thermometer and put the probe in the Hot-side Hide and the unity on the cold side like this, which should hopefully help me dial this in:

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMG_0478.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/IMG_0479.jpg

Also, sorry for being a PITA with questions. I just have a few reef tanks, with live coral, so I know the cost of not being prepared first!

yes that is right attached to the glass under the substrate. I don't suggest tons of substrate on the hot side maybe 1/8 inch or less. There is some heat loos but not much. Your issue is valid I have little doubt that you will need to insulate the tanks sides and back likely some of the top as well. the design of this style tank isn't bad it has top vents and low vents but you may find insulating the top and or adding a canopy light to the top will help ambient temps. With the insulation and some luck you will hold the ambient air temp inside the enclosure to correct levels and the UTH's will keep the surface temps well too. The probe may set point might be 90 and say 81 and on the substrate you may read things like 89 and 79 or so. The real killer to a cool room system is air temps ideally the ambient air temps inside the enclosure would be 78-85ºF big range my temp will shift through the day. I might see at the coolest 4am or so 78 maybe 77 on a cold night, then as the night lights (blue leds) kick off and FL lights on the temp will lift to 81 around lunch and 85 in late afternoon or so and then start to drop again. That is a product of the ambient room temp amount of insulation the enclosure has and the amount of air flow and ambient air heat there is (lights and transformers and such that air moves across.

Luckily the back of this tank has about an inch of styrofoam to give it the rock wall look. Wonder what I could use on the sides that would look naturalistic? Maybe some of that bark looking stuff or maybe I can find more of this rock wall stuff from exo-terra. Also, I'm guessing I might have to toss a bunch of substrate. I've got about 2-3" deep across the tank.

You could bank it up on the cool end and partially bury the hide under it. I have printed a couple of appropirate photos and glues them on (double sided tape) on 1/2 inch blue foam insulation and just taped them on.

So how much fresh air is required? I just put 4 plexiglass squares on the top to block the screen. These are pretty snug, but not airtight by any means. I'm hoping that the vents in the front, plus the gaps between the glass doors and the front are enough air circulation to keep the sir from going stale.

So I got the herpestat II hooked up. My concern is that I have the temp at 115° and 110°(on the glass above the flexwatt tape) so that it will measure 90° and 80° respectively. The substrate is not much more than an inch deep if that. Am I ok here? Planning on picking up an infrared thermometer today. I'm just concerned it will try to bury itself and get on those high temps.

No not really, The probe should be on the glass. Try thinning out the substrate some. The probe should be absolutely secure. Hot melt glue works.