trying to figure out the best way to feed

we just adopted our 1st bp. ive always loved snakes and he was a totally spontanious decision. felll madly in love with him the minute i held him. his temperment is perfect, he enjoys being handled and is very active especially at night. he is the perfect package. just trying to figure out how he prefers to be fed. we left him at the pet store for 2 weeks so we could become more educated and properly set up his tank. not sure of his weight but i know hes 53 inches and THICK! actually not posative if it is a boy. ive done a TON of research and have worn the guy at the pet store out! he also owns bps. the 1st time we attempted to feed him was at the pet store. he stunned the rat but not enough and it was bouncing on gomez trying to get out. after that he wouldnt have anything to do with it. the rat died shortly after so we left it in his tank. he said it was gone the next day. we brought him home a few days later and attempted to feed him a few days after that. we tried the same approach. we stunned the rat very well and he still wanted nothing to do with it. we left it in his tank for about 24 hours before we tossed it. needing some good advice on the best approach. i like the idea of a seperate feeding tub for many reasons but am not sure about throwing in a totally alert rat. have heard too much about injuries occuring. but he dosent seem interested in stunned or dead rats. we are TOTAL beginners, a whole week into it so i want to start out doing everything the best way for health, happiness and longevity of our super sweet bp.

First of all, welcome to the site and congrats on your new ball python.

I suggest waiting and leaving your new snake alone for at least another week (that means no handling...as hard as that sounds). I also suggest checking out this caresheet to be sure your husbandry is correct (you'd be surprised how much incorrect info it out there...)

What is your enclosure like? What are you using for heat? What kind of hides are you using? What kind of substrate are you using? What are your temps and humidity? Any and all info would help, pictures would be even better ;)

Again, welcome and congrats :D

he is in a 75 gallon rectangle replite aquarium with screen lids. we cover with towels if needed to regulate temp. 48" long, 22" tall, 24" deep. his substrate is aspen shavings. he has a half log hide, a climbing log and a good size short water bowl. his humidity goes between 50-60 with no interventions. he has a large under tank heater set on a reaostat (sp?) at just under medium on one side which stays between 88-92 degrees. the other side has a UVB light, and a mini combo deep dome set on a timer. day comes on at 530 a.m., night, which is black heat, comes on at 700. p.m. its general temp stays around 80-86. both bulbs are 75 watts. he shed about 1 to 1 1/2 weeks ago. i just joined the site today at work and will try to get some pics up when i get home. i love this site! ive learned sooo much more since ive been lookin around the forums. pleeease ask any other questions or offer any good adivice if it will make for a more comfortable life for gomez. we handeled him several times a week before we brought him home and have handled him since. he really seems to enjoy it. when we put him up he runs along the tank parascoping and looking out like he wants back out. hes very laid back and curious at the same time. have seen nothing that suggests agression or fear.

and his tank is completely covered on 3 sides.

totally agree with LGray23. ive had my BP for a over a month now and feeding has become a very easy routine...i am totally new to this also and understand what your going through... it took my guy 3 weeks before he started eating... i would leave him alone for the week take him out into a tub and feed him.. if he didnt go for it i would put him back and leave him for a week, and so on. finally he realized that "you dont eat u gotta wait"... now once i put him in the tub and show him the mouse he goes right at it.. i leave him for about 10 min so he can do his thing and i put him back in the tank.. believe me dude it gets much easier, just make sure you have the right temps and good hiding places. remember if you cant see him than he cant see you so he feels safe.... good luck :gj:

I'm starting to feel lucky... our new 2 mo old BP ate the first time we tried to feed him, just three days after bringing him home.

He'd been eating live hoppers at the shop, and the owner recommended feeding live for two or three more times before we try to switch to f/t.

Just a word of advice, a 75 gallon terrarium is a little big for a bp. They are solitary animals and actually prefer somewhat confine spaces, hence why they like hides so much, it makes them feel safe. Also, don't put him/her in a seperate "feeding" tub. All that does is create stress on the animal which can lead to them not eating. Hope this helps a little and welcome to the site :D

We just got this years bps both on f/t, it just takes alot of patience. I was sitting with the fuzzy in forcepts soaking it, taking temps waiting for my pinstripe to come out of his hide in the dark. I give it a little action and if they don't hit it I leave it. If the rat is still there a few hours later I give it to my corn snakes. Its a really great feeling when they start hammering those rats! Good luck:)

just lettimg ya know, its been very hard, but havent handled gomez in 4 days. im still continuing the research. were gonna try again monday night, that will be a week since attempting to feed and 8 days since handling. his temps and humidity have been good consistantly. gonna try feeding him in his tank instead of a seprate tub and see how that goes. as for his tank, i wish i could figure out how to post a pic so you can see the whole set up. its not really alot of open space between his bowl, hide and climbing log. hes pretty big and seems to be pretty social/active from what i know about bps. he does spend a lot of time in his hide but also likes to stretch out over his hide and climbing log during the day and is deffinetly active at night. im really hoping its not too big. im gonna hate to have to get a new 1. then i will have to find a new pet to occupy this 1.

I agree that the 75 gallon tank is probably too big, and I really suggest not moving to feed him either. It's not worth the added stress. Why don't you get a 20 gallon long temporarily until he starts eating and puts on weight?? Or better yet, a tub (I know some people don't like them but they really are a lot more useful than tanks).

When you go to feed, DON'T stun the rat. If you do it improperly and it wakes up at an inopportune time, it will be very afraid and dangerous. Either prekill it, or put it in the cage alive and unharmed. Although there is a risk with live prey, it could also help entice him to get into hunting mode. Oh, and make sure you step out of sight so your boy isn't more concerned about the giants watching him than his meal. Good luck!

thank you for that! weve tried well stunned, then killed. then we tried live, then killed. only thing is we were handling him daily as soon as we got him home and thats our bad. weve been leaving him be since the day b4 our last attempt and will do so at least until the next time we try. game plan is to wait till dark and his night lamp comes on, then drop a live one in his normal tank, not move him to a different bin. we'll see how that goes. if that dosent work, we will kill it and leave it for a while. question is, if he dosent eat it right off, how long should we leave it in there live b4 we kill it? and i KNOW we gotta supervise for safety reasons. and if we do have to kill it, how long is a safe window to leave it in his tank due to decomp and bacteria reasons? believe me, we are full of questions! another 1 is how often is he supposed to poop not feeding in almost 3 weeks? the 1st time we tried to feed him he didnt eat but he did poop. the only 1 weve seen.

http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/...1025011310.jpg


trying to figure out how to post pics on a thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by h&tmaster

http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/...1025011310.jpg


trying to figure out how to post pics on a thread.

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To post photos, first, you will need to upload your photos to your Gallery on this website or to a photo hosting website like Photobucket, Flickr, etc...

-Open up the Reply window to the thread you want to post them in.

-Open a separate internet browser window and go to the site where your photos are posted.

-Usually below the photo, you will find some URL links or codes. Look for the one that begins with [IMG] or sometimes it may be listed as "BB Code". Highlight and copy this entire code then paste it in your "Reply" window.

-Click on the "Preview Post" button to see if the photo becomes visible. If it does click "Submit Reply". If not, then double check that you copied the right code or the entire code. The end of the code should be [/IMG]...

Here is a link to a video tutorial also. Hope this helps...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32416

Something that you did not mention was what size rats are being offered. I've noticed that with some adult Ball Pythons, eventhough they are large enough to take larger rats, some will not. They can be timid about it at best, and some just refuse them. I have found that the size that consistently works best are rats in the 70-90 gram range. Depending on where you get your feeders, this could be classified as a larger "Small Rat" or a smaller "Medium Rat". I always take a digital scale to the store with me to weigh my feeders.

I would not change tanks just yet. If your 75 gal tank is the same as mine, then the floor should measure about 4ft long X 18in wide. That should be plenty of floor space for a 53in long BP.
Some things that I would recommend changing are:
-Hides. You should have two identical snug hides. One for each end. For a larger snake like yours, I recommend these:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/large-hide-box
or these
http://npicages.com/abs_plastic_hide_boxes.html

I don't really like the half logs, because sometimes they don't provide enough security, and once they get urine or feces on them, they are nearly impossible to clean and disinfect. The plastic ones will give your snake a dark, snug place to hide and are easy to maintain. I use the Reptile Basics hides.

Since your snake is nocturnal, you really don't need UVB lighting. If you need them for supplemental heating, then you can use the red heat bulbs or a ceramic heat emitter for both day and night.

I would start with providing snug hides and a good prey size. Sometimes, adding some fake vines around the tank can add clutter and help fill in some of the open space. It is best to use hot glue to mount these around the sides of the tank, instead of the little suction hooks that come with them. Most pet stores will carry some of these or you can usually find them cheaper at hobby and craft stores like Michaels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by h&tmaster

... question is, if he dosent eat it right off, how long should we leave it in there live b4 we kill it? and i KNOW we gotta supervise for safety reasons. and if we do have to kill it, how long is a safe window to leave it in his tank due to decomp and bacteria reasons? believe me, we are full of questions! another 1 is how often is he supposed to poop not feeding in almost 3 weeks? the 1st time we tried to feed him he didnt eat but he did poop. the only 1 weve seen.

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If you continue to offer live prey and he doesn't seen interested or start tracking it within the first 2-3 minutes, take it out.
It may help if you "pre-scent" first. With live prey, you can do this by placing the carrier box that you brought the rat home in, or using a small Critter Keeper to hold the rat. Place the container on top of the cage for a few minutes so that the snake can smell the rodent and get into feeding mode.
I feed Frozen/Thawed and occasionally one of mine won't eat right away. I just turn out the lights and leave the room. If it is still there in the morning, then I'll dispose of it.
Most of my snakes poop about 1-2 times a month. They tend to average about every 3 weeks or so...

http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/...1105010947.jpg

aaaaaaa! thank you! ok. this is his set up. 80-83 on lamp side, 90ish on pad side under hide/branch. theyve been very consistant.his day/night lamps cycle from 6:30a.m. to 6:30 p.m. night bulb is black heat. the UVB dosent put out much heat but read it is good for health purposes. is his water bowl too big? this pic was taken at 9:45 a.m. this morning and hes in his "tree". when we come in in the mornings he is normally in his hide but comes out and settles in his tree most of the time to see whats going on. weve tried 2 medium rats. gonna try a small rat monday night. any suggestions on set up will be appreciated!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by h&tmaster

aaaaaaa! thank you! ok. this is his set up. 80-83 on lamp side, 90ish on pad side under hide/branch. theyve been very consistant.his day/night lamps cycle from 6:30a.m. to 6:30 p.m. night bulb is black heat. the UVB dosent put out much heat but read it is good for health purposes. is his water bowl too big? this pic was taken at 9:45 a.m. this morning and hes in his "tree". when we come in in the mornings he is normally in his hide but comes out and settles in his tree most of the time to see whats going on. weve tried 2 medium rats. gonna try a small rat monday night. any suggestions on set up will be appreciated!

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UVB light is good for Diurnal animals. Those that are active during the day. This applies to most lizards, turtles, crocodilians, and a few snakes. Most snakes, including Ball Pythons are Nocturnal, meaning they are most active in the late evening and night. About the only time you should really see them out during the day is when they are getting a drink of water, or moving from one hide to the other to thermoregulate. Excessive day time activity and feeding issues are two key symptoms of stress. By providing two snug hides, and filling some the open space in the tank with some fake vines and/or plants will help reduce the stress.
The size of the water bowl is ok...

Here's what I do with stubborn feeders:
Cover all sides of the tank completely so he can't see out at all. Then leave him alone for a week (you've got that covered). Then offer a live small rat. Small rats are relatively safe to feed live. I raise my own feeders and have a large collection, so I only feed live, and have no issues. Most of the horror stories of injuries from rats/mice are one of two things. Either the rodent was left in the tank overnight and it got hungry and nibbled on the snake, or a fairly large (for the size of the snake) prey item was fed live. Adult BPs kill small rats so quickly once they wrap it that the rat has little chance to do damage.

I would also suggest leaving the rat in there for 15-20 minutes. You may even find that you have to leave the room. I know that many people advise supervising the rat, but I have had a few shy eaters who will not eat with someone standing there.

If he continues fasting, don't panic. You're up against a seasonal change right now. I have a few males off feed for winter now, and they'll likely stay off for 4-6mos. Not every BP fasts in the winter, but some will even without being cooled or bred. The winter fast doesn't hurt them, and they lose very little weight.

Hope this helps,
Shelly

thank you all SOOOOO much for your input. this is a totally new experience for us and all i have to go by is research and the advice of experienced hobbiests. i want to make sure im starting out and continuing to do things the right way for everyones sake. im hoping to become educated and experienced enough to the point that we may start breeding a few years down the road. but thats a ways off! thank you all again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by h&tmaster

i like the idea of a seperate feeding tub for many reasons but am not sure about throwing in a totally alert rat. have heard too much about injuries occuring. but he dosent seem interested in stunned or dead rats.

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I agree with the others about a feeding tub being a bad idea. It just causes unnecessary stress.

Also, those "injuries" you hear about are from irresponsible owners who leave rats in with their snakes unsupervised for extended periods of time with no food or water. I feed live, always have. Lots of others here feed live as well. I feed off around 100 live rats a month and have for many years. I have NEVER had an issue with feeding live. If you supervise your feedings and keep a pair of tongs handy to put in the rats mouth in the case of a bad strike, you'll be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vypyrz

To post photos, first, you will need to upload your photos to your Gallery on this website or to a photo hosting website like Photobucket, Flickr, etc...

-Open up the Reply window to the thread you want to post them in.

-Open a separate internet browser window and go to the site where your photos are posted.

-Usually below the photo, you will find some URL links or codes. Look for the one that begins with [IMG] or sometimes it may be listed as "BB Code". Highlight and copy this entire code then paste it in your "Reply" window.

-Click on the "Preview Post" button to see if the photo becomes visible. If it does click "Submit Reply". If not, then double check that you copied the right code or the entire code. The end of the code should be [/IMG]...

Here is a link to a video tutorial also. Hope this helps...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32416

Something that you did not mention was what size rats are being offered. I've noticed that with some adult Ball Pythons, eventhough they are large enough to take larger rats, some will not. They can be timid about it at best, and some just refuse them. I have found that the size that consistently works best are rats in the 70-90 gram range. Depending on where you get your feeders, this could be classified as a larger "Small Rat" or a smaller "Medium Rat". I always take a digital scale to the store with me to weigh my feeders.

I would not change tanks just yet. If your 75 gal tank is the same as mine, then the floor should measure about 4ft long X 18in wide. That should be plenty of floor space for a 53in long BP.
Some things that I would recommend changing are:
-Hides. You should have two identical snug hides. One for each end. For a larger snake like yours, I recommend these:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/large-hide-box
or these
http://npicages.com/abs_plastic_hide_boxes.html

I don't really like the half logs, because sometimes they don't provide enough security, and once they get urine or feces on them, they are nearly impossible to clean and disinfect. The plastic ones will give your snake a dark, snug place to hide and are easy to maintain. I use the Reptile Basics hides.

Since your snake is nocturnal, you really don't need UVB lighting. If you need them for supplemental heating, then you can use the red heat bulbs or a ceramic heat emitter for both day and night.

I would start with providing snug hides and a good prey size. Sometimes, adding some fake vines around the tank can add clutter and help fill in some of the open space. It is best to use hot glue to mount these around the sides of the tank, instead of the little suction hooks that come with them. Most pet stores will carry some of these or you can usually find them cheaper at hobby and craft stores like Michaels.

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just ordered 2 large plastic hides from RB... thanks!

ok. so we went with the plan. sat the rat on top of tank for about half an hour. he was in his hide, head layed out when we came back in. dropped live rat in and he followed that fella all over the tank for about 30 minutes. would get nose to nose but never struck. after that he lost interest and more avoided it. we took the rat out about 20 minutes ago and heis now circling his tank again seemingly looking for it. hmmmmm. we were for SURE he was gonna take it a few times but didnt. even picked the live rat up and gave it a little tong wiggle for him b4 we put it away. we didnt hover, watched from a low distance. guess were gonna have to get used to this for a few months. just talked to a friend/distant coworker prior to feeding that said his male who hes had for 10 years routienly goes off food for 5 months out of the year. he recomended since its such a warm sunny day to take him out for a quick bask and try again 2nite. any yeys or neys on that one?

Gomez finally ate! he just ate a white mouse. it was the last 1 the store had so we got a fuzzy too. its in there now. hope he eats it too. just sooooo glad he finally ate something!!!

aaaaand he just took took the fuzzy!!! WOOT!!!!

congratz :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by h&tmaster

ok. so we went with the plan. sat the rat on top of tank for about half an hour. he was in his hide, head layed out when we came back in. dropped live rat in and he followed that fella all over the tank for about 30 minutes. would get nose to nose but never struck. after that he lost interest and more avoided it. we took the rat out about 20 minutes ago and heis now circling his tank again seemingly looking for it. hmmmmm. we were for SURE he was gonna take it a few times but didnt. even picked the live rat up and gave it a little tong wiggle for him b4 we put it away. we didnt hover, watched from a low distance. guess were gonna have to get used to this for a few months. just talked to a friend/distant coworker prior to feeding that said his male who hes had for 10 years routienly goes off food for 5 months out of the year. he recomended since its such a warm sunny day to take him out for a quick bask and try again 2nite. any yeys or neys on that one?

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Nay.

Outside for you = fun.

Outside for your snake = stress.

If you want him to continue eating, your goal should be to minimize stress.

im still learning. some people say to take him out on a warm sunny day, others say not to. dont think we have many more warm days this season so if we do take him out it will be well into spring.

baby boy took 5 mice like a CHAMP tonight! very happy! even if he remains a mouser i'm fine with that. as long as he eats. 2 proud parents right now! woohoo! :banana: