What would you do?

Okay so poking around craigslist, which I am beginning to learn is a terrible idea, I came across an ad for a female ball python. This is the ad...

"I have a female ball python that is possibly gravid. I have no set fee for her. Im taking offers but be reasonable. She was paired to multiple morph males. Shes a big girl well over 2000g. Currently in shed, either pre ov or pre lay. I never caught the ov so im not entirely sure which one but I believe its prelay, this is the 2nd shed within a months time. She has a nice reduced alien head pattern and is a proven female that lays large clutches."

So I wrote him an email asking about the snake, what is her temperament like, has she been handled with any kind of regularity or simply used for breeding, what is she eating, also what kind of males has she been paired with that she could possibly be gravid with, and what kind of price he was hoping to get for her.

This was the response I got...

"She's completely chill. I handle my snakes as much as possible. She's kept in a tub in a temperature controlled room, I still have to put together a couple of my racks I haven't gotten to yet. She will eat f/t and live rats. Her last meal was 2 weeks ago after not eating for some time (breeding etc, she wasn't interested in food) she was paired with a yb, a fire, a butter and black pastel. I'm taking offers."

So my question is, what would you offer in that circumstance? I was thinking partial cash and maybe a clutch agreement? That if she does produce a clutch, we split the profits from that clutch. Because what real guarantee is there that she will actually produce and that it will be worth anything? Could slug out... could not be avid at all, right?

You guys have always been super helpful in the past, I'm sure y'all have some advice now. :)

Key word "Possibly" while I know it is often tempting to get a shortcut and get a gravid female I would stay away from craigslist.

1# Possibly gravid
2# Even if gravid what were the pairings? Is it something you would even be interested in? Personally I am all about SELECTIVE breeding so a female that might have been paired to just any male (maybe an ugly pastel or ugly spider) would not interest me.

I would not be willing to pay more because the animal is "Possibly" gravid especially not from craigslist.

But the bottom line it's up to YOU.

If she ended up being gravid by the fire or the butter, then yes I might be interested as they would contribute to my future breeding plans for Nuclears. That was why I was hesitant to go up. He said he'd dropped the price to 300, which to me still felt high for a normal female. I was thinking of offering lower and then maybe doing a contract? Something that says if she is in fact gravid by one of his males and produces a clutch, that we split the profit from the clutch. But what is a fair offer for a normal female?

I would be VERY cautious and VERY suspicious here. A gravid female, especially one bred to a number of morphs males, is very valuable, so why is he getting rid of her now instead of after she lays ? If he suspects her shed is prelay, she would drop her eggs in a month, which is when 95% of big females get sold, right after they lay.

Does he have pictures of her AND of these males he claims to have ? What about pictures of her locked with any of them ? Something just doesn't add up to me about this. If she lays a clutch of say, 8 eggs, statistically 4 of them could be morphs, and he could easily make several hundred dollars off that clutch. So why on earth is he basically giving it away?

If you decide to make an offer for her, make the offer as though she ISN'T gravid, because you have no guarantee she is, no matter what he says. DO NOT offer to split the clutch, if he wanted the clutch he'd wait until after she lays in a month.

A nice, big normal female that is healthy and of breeding weight { ask for a picture of her on a scale } is worth around $125-$150. If he will let you, ask to see her BEFORE you make an offer. Bring your cash with you, but do not make an offer until you can see this animal in person. If she really is gravid, and within a month of laying you'll be able to tell. If you aren't sure you can, visit this site: http://www.ballpython.ca/gallery/breeding.html and study the pictures of the gravid females.

My advise is if you really want her, buy her as a big normal female who is ready to be bred, NOT as a gravid animal who might lay a clutch worth a few hundred dollars. If you spend too much on her and get no eggs at all, or something else goes wrong, then you'll be kicking yourself in the head over it. Be safe, not sorry.

Gale

I was curious about the timing as well. He said the only reason he was selling her was because he needs the funds to fix his car. I guess we can all get into binds, but yes it does make me nervous.

The only reason I thought about offering to split the profits of the clutch was because it might make him a little more willing to sell her for a fair price if that is the case. If she never produces, then I would never have to split the clutch, but would still have a breeding weight normal female.

It is a weird situation, thats why I sought some good advice!

Sounds sketchy to me.

I think perhaps I might just avoid the whole thing. I asked if he had pictures of her and the males she locked with. He responded by telling me no that he doesn't have the time to take pictures of them locking when he has a job. I didn't even ask for locking pictures, just of the female and the males in question.

He lives at least an hour and a half drive from me, so I am not all too keen on driving that distance without so much as a picture of the snake to go off of. :\

This sounds a little too good to be true. I'd be very hesitant.

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

I think perhaps I might just avoid the whole thing. I asked if he had pictures of her and the males she locked with. He responded by telling me no that he doesn't have the time to take pictures of them locking when he has a job. I didn't even ask for locking pictures, just of the female and the males in question.

He lives at least an hour and a half drive from me, so I am not all too keen on driving that distance without so much as a picture of the snake to go off of. :\

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That would put me off instantly. I'd never be rude to someone that was trying to do business with me. Sounds like someone you want to stay away from.

First, ask for pictures, second why is he selling a poss gravid girl on craigslist and not on ks or fauna? Third if he knew anything and believed she was gravid he would have an asking price. A poss normal gravid girl wouldnt be worth more then 150.00 bucks in my oppinion. Sounds sketchy to me. The fact this animal is listed on craigslist would throw flags up for me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

If she ended up being gravid by the fire or the butter, then yes I might be interested as they would contribute to my future breeding plans for Nuclears. That was why I was hesitant to go up. He said he'd dropped the price to 300, which to me still felt high for a normal female. I was thinking of offering lower and then maybe doing a contract? Something that says if she is in fact gravid by one of his males and produces a clutch, that we split the profit from the clutch. But what is a fair offer for a normal female?

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Problem is it's craigslist you will likely NEVER hear from him again so if the "Possibly" gravid female is not gravid you will over pay for a normal female.

I understand you have certain breeding goals and I would assume you are taking breeding seriously if so craigslist is not the place to start, buy from reputable breeders, invest in quality animals this will pay off in the end.

That is why I didn't want to pay the 300 he was asking for. I was going to maybe offer 150 with the clutch contract. So that if she was in fact gravid he would still get something from it, but if she ended up not being gravid then I would not be out 300 for a normal female.

I have been keeping an eye on craigslist for breeding weight pets that people just never intended to breed at all. Since I am just starting out and have a spider male and plans to buy a co-dom male within the next month or two. So normal females are a nice way of getting started without putting in thousands of dollars that I may just end up losing... if that makes sense.

I would offer 150 if I needed a normal female for my breedings and had a quarantine set up to accommodate her. I personally bought a possibly gravid female for 125 but I wanted another female normal so her being paired with something was just a bonus, maybe. But I will see. I wouldn't offer a clutch contract unless you don't want to pair her with anything after her quarantine period. And you are ok with not breeding her this season.

~ Karl

Well the clutch contract I would offer would stipulate it would only be valid with a clutch produced by one of his males. Since he has no males that I would have. She has been paired with a yb, black pastel, butter, and a fire. I have a spider and I am going to invest in a lesser pastel male or butter pastel male. BUT the male I pick up in the next month or two will have some growing to do before he can breed, obviously! So aside from the butter overlap there would be no chance of confusing the daddy. I wouldn't do a clutch contract for her first clutch produced for me, just anything that might be a result of what he produced.

Though again his reluctance to send me pictures makes me nervous. :\

You do make it sound a little shady and you gut seems to be telling you this isn't quite right. THere are generally good reasons why you have gut feeling and it seems like your gut is telling you this isn't right but your head is trying to convince you that it is. Always go with your gut.

If you really do want it, don't even factor in that it could be gravid. It is only a POSSIBLY gravid female so only offer what you would want to pay for a none gravid female. Don't expect it to be gravid, just treat it like that might be a bonus if you jsut buy a normal ball. If he doesn't like that offer then don't go for it. In the BP world your future will always be open to other options. If you don't get this one something else will come along. Also if he really does need the money then just paying the price for a normal should be ok to him. Him waiting to sell won't get him the money he apparently needs right now so if it is ok for him to wait, really it should be ok to him to just wait and make more money hatching the clutch himself. So if doing that him self is something he doesn't want to do then the female is probably not really gravid.

The fact that he won't send you pics is a major red flag. If this is a deal that you are going to get shipped to you DON"T DO IT. If you have to meet in person to make the switch then that would be ok so at least even if you tell him you will buy it, if once you meet, the snake looks fishy you can still back out. Don't give him any money unless you get the snake first.

And if this was me i would just give him a low price or jsut walk away completly.

I agree with most people on here, but there's some other points I can think of. If he's in need of money quickly, it would be generally a lot easier selling a breeding size morph male than a possibly gravid female. Also as pointed out, the possible gravid girl WOULD be worth much more to most keepers, due to time of growing a female, possible eggs from morph males, etc etc.

No pics, so far not being very talky on the subject, high "asking price" (for normal), kind of low weight for "big clutch" producer, and the craigslist stigma are all red flags. Don't get me wrong 2000g is still a good sized girl, but you're more than likely not getting 8-10 good sized eggs out of her, and I've done plenty of deals on craigslist, but some people on there are just shady.

If you decide to go with it, I highly doubt he'd be willing to sign a clutch contract, but only thing you can do is talk to him about it.

Sounds a little weird.

Thank you everyone for your input. I am stepping away from it. I asked him once more for pictures of the female and he said he will see if he can get around to it, if he has time. To me if you cannot even bother to take a picture, even a quick snapshot with a cellphone, then you are not really that interested in selling or you don't want people to see the condition of the snake ahead of time.

Something just feels shady here... so I am gonna go with my gut and say no thank you. :)

I'd say to offer him $150 because that is the price i've seen a lot for an adult normal female on kingsnake.com and tell him you'll split the profit IF she is pregnant and has a clutch.

Never mind, I did not see your last post.