Things I wish I had known when I started out breeding rats...

I thought it would be interesting to have a thread where people share the tricks of the trade they have learned. Things that would be useful to a breeder just starting out, or useful to established breeders.

I'll start out with some things I wish I had known about....

1) Pine shavings.
Most are kiln dried, and thus won't hurt the rats.
Helps a ton with odor control.
Cheaper than aspen most of the time.
Less dusty than many brands of aspen.

2) Buying rodent food in bulk. Buying online and at feed stores.
Even cheaper than dog food.
Much healthier than dog food.
Pet store prices are outrageous.

3) NOT using dog food.
It made the smell noticeably worse.
Rats got cysts due to greasy skin from the dog food.
It's more expensive than buying a decent lab block.

4) Using tubs instead of tanks.
Tanks are really freaking heavy.
Tanks have sharp corners that are hard to clean.
Tubs are very lightweight.
Tubs are very easy to clean.
Tubs are cheaper.

Who else has helpful tips? :)

I dont have any tips to add becuase I havent bred any rats yet.
But this helped me, thanks! :gj:

Thx for the tips!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

If anyone can get a hold of SWIFT premium horse pine, it's GREAT!
$5 for 45 lbs, EXTREME odor control due to the shreds being very small, and packing tightly!

I use Dwayne Davis pine bedding. its shredded to the size of Sani Chips. Works GREAT.


BUt the Best and MOST Important Info is to Start off with HEALTHY STOCK.

Yeah im using a product almost like sawdust

Works great

Though i do like the pellets too

Be aware of nursing moms wanting to bite

Dont use pellets on babies, and keep bedding to a minimum. Ive lost a few babies after having them burrow and suffocating.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Yeah im using a product almost like sawdust

Works great

Though i do like the pellets too

Be aware of nursing moms wanting to bite

Dont use pellets on babies, and keep bedding to a minimum. Ive lost a few babies after having them burrow and suffocating.

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To add to this, Sawdust type bedding like pellets once they break down, Are small enough for the babies to breath in and plug up the air ways and die that way. Why i dont use pellets with my rats.

best tip i have is to assume it will take a while to get a good size variety. ive got a TON of smalls still waiting to grow up some meds and larges lol.

Good point. Don't START breeding when you need feeders. Breed before you need them, then you might have some by the time you need them. :P

Where do you buy the rat food in bulk? Im doing the dog food,rat food, and scraps now. But I can clearly tell the dog food isnt too good...

Good start. Other tips. Remove preg females from any males before they give birth.

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Originally Posted by womsterr

Good start. Other tips. Remove preg females from any males before they give birth.

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Thats Personal Preference. I dont remove anything which allows me to keep a steady stocked freezer. I did the males in 3 weeks then out while females were prego and nursing.

When i did that my production was lower and was still needing to order frozen. But by keeping them together, with healthy stock i havent ordered rats in 3 years.

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Originally Posted by womsterr

Good start. Other tips. Remove preg females from any males before they give birth.

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I need to do more on this subject... I have about 30-50 rats, and 3 ASF's I havent had anything bad happen with the rats. However the ASF's after they had their pinkies, The females would attack the male I had to remove him. They chewed up his back, ears, and tail pretty bad.

What do you do?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quikcobra

Where do you buy the rat food in bulk? Im doing the dog food,rat food, and scraps now. But I can clearly tell the dog food isnt too good...

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For the bulk food:

http://www.nationalpetpharmacy.com/P...nt-Diet-40-lbs

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm just getting started breeding/raising my own feeders and the more I find out the more I realize how little I know, lol! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

For the bulk food:

http://www.nationalpetpharmacy.com/P...nt-Diet-40-lbs

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm just getting started breeding/raising my own feeders and the more I find out the more I realize how little I know, lol! :D

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Just got this in the mail on Wednesday. Quick shipping, $21.19 for a 40lb bag. $4.95 shipping which did not change when I added multiple bags. Can't recommend this enough.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Just got this in the mail on Wednesday. Quick shipping, $21.19 for a 40lb bag. $4.95 shipping which did not change when I added multiple bags. Can't recommend this enough.

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Yeah, I was paying $40 for that exact same product from petfooddirect.com. Definitely a steal to get it for only $25! :D

I always had my male asf’s in with my females, even with litters. I was breeding them in small tubs as well, and never had issues with attacks on males or lost babies.

As far as tips:

1- Make racks. I always thought “oh gosh, it takes so much time, blah blah blah” but in my opinion, nothing worked as good, nothing was as quick to clean and as easy to maintain. I wound up wasting money and time setting up halfass things when I could have saved money in the long run by building racks.

2- Another note on the racks. Do it right! It was very hard at first until we made spacers and bought clamps. You will have a hell of a time doing it without spacers and clamps and I got discouraged fast when it didn’t work the first time when I didn’t use these helpful tools.

3- Wheels on your racks. You may think you don’t need them, but they will make life a lot easier!

4- Watering system. I can’t stress this enough. You think you don’t need it and you go and buy bottles. But past 1 rack, it gets OLD VERY FAST. I was changing 100 water bottles and spent over $2.00 a piece. Spend the extra money, get the valves, and do a watering system from the get-go!


5- Bedding. I always use pine. But LESS IS MORE. I am still figuring this out. Every time I fill tubs with bedding, I think “wow that’s too little” and add more. Then when cleaning time comes, you can tell you added wayyy too much bedding, it’s over flowed (at least for my mouse racks). Especially with the pine pellets, one layer is MORE than enough. It poofs up!

6- Don’t get your starter rats at Pet Co. I had bad experiences with this. I wound up with rats that wouldn’t breed and actually the first rat ever to attack me to the point where I should have gotten stitches.

That’s all I have for now, but I’m sure I’ll come up with more.

Been Breeding Rodents for 12 years now. And Vinilla exstarct in the watering system keeps the smell down alot. Also as far as dog food goes there is some out there that work fine at times when we where able to get rodent block Purina large breed dog food is the best "dog" food to feed them. You need to stay away from any of the kibble that is red in color cause the dye is what causes the issues in the rodents...

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Originally Posted by punyhuman07

Been Breeding Rodents for 12 years now. And Vinilla exstarct in the watering system keeps the smell down alot. Also as far as dog food goes there is some out there that work fine at times when we where able to get rodent block Purina large breed dog food is the best "dog" food to feed them. You need to stay away from any of the kibble that is red in color cause the dye is what causes the issues in the rodents...

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Just curious, what ratio of vanilla extract to water do you use? I used it for a few weeks but didn't notice a difference, so I stopped.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Just curious, what ratio of vanilla extract to water do you use? I used it for a few weeks but didn't notice a difference, so I stopped.

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to be honest i dont really remember anymore lol. With the 5 gallon buckets for the watering system I think its like 3 tablespoons. water bottle depending the size i was doing enough to make the water turn a bit brownish but not to much

Waterbottles, you're supposed to use about 1/2 drops per 8 oz of PURE organic vanilla extract. If it's not real vanilla, it does no good. The more pure, the more organic, the more concentrated, the better!

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Waterbottles, you're supposed to use about 1/2 drops per 8 oz of PURE organic vanilla extract. If it's not real vanilla, it does no good. The more pure, the more organic, the more concentrated, the better!

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Ah, I was using imitation vanilla. I will pick up some organic stuff tomorrow. Thanks! ;)

Aha! That may be your problem. :)
It's not a complete and total change in scent, but it does help hide it. :gj:

im not trying to start a debate on if you should or should not use dog food. i am just going to say that in my case i feed exclusively doggy bag dog food. i have never had a rat with a cyst ever, never had any sickness except when i had a flood, smell isnt the greatest but i cant say its any differant form when i used sunseed critter cubes.
i just had a female drop a litter of 24 babies. my average for a litter is 12-15. young females 8-10. i have had a few females drop still borns, but i breed non stop and my females dont get breaks. i retire females at 12-15 months old.

AdamJefferey, could you show us photos of your rats?


Feeding doggy bag dog food, it like feeding a human being nothing but instant $0.10 ramen it's whole life. Sure it won't die quick from it, but it's absolutely not healthy.

DB is crap, your rats will not do well on it for long...
I wouldn't feed DB to a mangy starved dog.

Find a quality rodent block, and you'll be surprised at how much better your rats are. And, despite what's said, it's not that much more expensive...

If I was locked in a room with nothing to eat but DB dog food, I'd starve first. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

AdamJefferey, could you show us photos of your rats?


Feeding doggy bag dog food, it like feeding a human being nothing but instant $0.10 ramen it's whole life. Sure it won't die quick from it, but it's absolutely not healthy.

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heres one i had on my phone from cleaning day a while back.
i see no problems with mine. all healthy and looking great. very muscular and great weight. not greasy ....been doing it this way for about a year and a half with this food.
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/...ffery/rats.jpg

Well, pictures or not I believe the general consensus to be that rodent block is much healthier for rats than dog food.

I'm sure it's entirely possible to raise rats on dog food and have no issues, but I believe they will be healthier, and in turn be better nutrition for your snake if they are fed a species appropriate diet. :)

That's the kicker...the nutritional value of the rodent is inevitably higher on an animal fed a diet specifically designed for a rodent. I too fed doggy bag dog food when I started breeding and didn't have much in the way of trouble but it's just common sense that there is a difference between rats surviving and rats being nutritionally optimum for your reptiles. Use this example: a human being who eats whatever he wants with no regard to nutritional value VS. A human being who eats food based on his exact nutritional needs and supplements with necessary vitamins and minerals. Which is healthier? The first guy will live but the second guy is likely to be healthier and live longer. Besides with rodent block being as cheap as 13.00 a bag for 50lbs why not feed the right stuff?

cheapest i can get locally is 27 dollars a 40 lbs bag. i have been looking into ordering from the website listed earlier. only slightly more expensive. i had way worse production from the sunseed critter cubes (27 $ bag) than i do now. it was suppose to be rodent formulated. i looked into mazuri but our local purina distributor will only get it if i order a pallet and i cant use that much before it would go bad. i tried ordering it through central tractor and they said they cant get it. which is bs. i only found out about the website earlier a few weeks ago. i may switch but honestly dont see anything wrong with my rats. i compared ingredients once with mazuri and it was fairly close. when i go down and clean tonight im going to take a pic of the ingredient list and compare it again. maybe i compared the sunseed ingredients. cant remember.
adam

how do you rig up a water dispenser in a tub? do you get one that attaches/hangs off the side?

[QUOTE=reptilegirl07;1686267]
As far as tips:

1- Make racks. I always thought “oh gosh, it takes so much time, blah blah blah” but in my opinion, nothing worked as good, nothing was as quick to clean and as easy to maintain. I wound up wasting money and time setting up halfass things when I could have saved money in the long run by building racks.

2- Another note on the racks. Do it right! It was very hard at first until we made spacers and bought clamps. You will have a hell of a time doing it without spacers and clamps and I got discouraged fast when it didn’t work the first time when I didn’t use these helpful tools.

3- Wheels on your racks. You may think you don’t need them, but they will make life a lot easier!

4- Watering system. I can’t stress this enough. You think you don’t need it and you go and buy bottles. But past 1 rack, it gets OLD VERY FAST. I was changing 100 water bottles and spent over $2.00 a piece. Spend the extra money, get the valves, and do a watering system from the get-go!


5- Bedding. I always use pine. But LESS IS MORE. I am still figuring this out. Every time I fill tubs with bedding, I think “wow that’s too little” and add more. Then when cleaning time comes, you can tell you added wayyy too much bedding, it’s over flowed (at least for my mouse racks). Especially with the pine pellets, one layer is MORE than enough. It poofs up!

6- Don’t get your starter rats at Pet Co. I had bad experiences with this. I wound up with rats that wouldn’t breed and actually the first rat ever to attack me to the point where I should have gotten stitches.
QUOTE]

I have all that rack stuff down, I added wheels since I had them but put them on the 2nd rack since it was so easy to move... I wouldnt buy anything from the big chain pet stores... And I use pine, And I only use a little since it doesnt take long to smell terrible. So other then the wholesale rat food I seem to be ok... Thanks for the info...

1) Letting female rats have weeks in between pregnancies/births.

:oops:

Doggie bag is fine. I was producing thousands of rats per week on it. I alo used the pellet bedding in the summers here. I didn't see any losses over normal pine. However, when I went to larger tubs with higher numbers per tub, I did see a dust issue.

Vanilla extract will draw extra bacteria to your water system and eventually it will cause issues with your valves. Been there done that.

A thin layer of baking soda under the bedding helps with cleaning and odor.

I kept males with females at all times.

There are proper ways to do things. And there are fine ways to do things.

They breed like rabbits, and taste like chicken.

Two words: FOOD HOPPERS!

This has saved me so much money, and it's so much easier to tell if they are out of food, because they aren't burying it in some corner. :rolleyes:

They are super easy to make once you get your first one done, and affordable.

i think i saw someone looking for quality rat block at a good price. I use a brand called KENT, you can get it at feed stores for about 12 bucks for a 40lb bag. really good stuff.

also i know this pertains to mice instead of rats but ive noticed mice and asfs benefit from eating black oil sun flower seeds. i dont give it to the rats but i do the mice and asfs

Hard lesson learned the other day....

Rats can and will chew through anything that isn't metal. This includes plastic zip ties. I was lulled into a false sense of complacency due to my rats never showing an inclination to escape, but this new batch I got are all little Houdini rodents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Just got this in the mail on Wednesday. Quick shipping, $21.19 for a 40lb bag. $4.95 shipping which did not change when I added multiple bags. Can't recommend this enough.

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I didn't get $4.95 shipping, but they have a special where you get free shipping when you sign up for autoship on orders that are $49 or more. So I'm getting one 40-lb. bag of food and two 2.2 cubic foot compressed bags of pine bedding, which just barely totals over $49. :D Free shipping on a heavy bag of rat food? Yes please!

Pine pellets work WONDERS for reducing smell. Of course, you can't use them on babies until their eyes open (at about two weeks). By that time, the dust isn't an issue. I separate pregnant moms into a birthing rack. It's extra work, but the lack of rodent smell makes it well, well, well worth it. Not to say my room doesn't stink, but after 7 days of not cleaning (approximately ~500 rats), it's still more of a *sniff* yeah, it kinda stinks in here instead of a *sniff* OH THE HORROR! :)

That being said, the dust gets everywhere. I wouldn't recommend it if you keep your rats in a room in your house, unless it's a dedicated rodent room.

your best bet is gunna be a local feed store.
if you dont have one of those, find someone whom breeds rats near you be it a specialty breeder, local
, or pet shop for feeders and ask them where they get theres. you may even be able to buy from them.


- hope this helps :)