Why have only one spider and pinstipe ever been found in bush?

Hello everyone,

I have been wondering why only one spider and one pinstripe have ever been found in the bush? Both these morphs are dominant so you would think that they would have mulitplied rather quickly in the wild yet no more have ever been found.

Did the extreme patterns on these morphs make them very poor in camoflague and they just don't survive long, but them albino's have been found in the bush at full size? I am just throwing this out there to see what some people thing.

So what do you guys/gals think?

Dave

From what I understand, there has been more than 1 spider found in the wild.

I've wondered similar thoughts as well.

It's true that we don't find them as often as yellowbellies or... well, anything else in the BEL complex though. Interesting!

im waiting for someone to report a panda pied or caramel pied coming from the wild lol jk. but really i dont know, its probably the aliens ;)

Great point. Very interesting.

Deformed animals like pieds,pinstripes,spiders ect stick out like a sore thumb in the African bush. Because of that they make easy targets for predators. Think of all the bad ass morphs like the banana that have been eaten by other critters long before people started looking for them ;)

Side note there has only ever been one spider found in the wild.


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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Deformed animals like pieds,pinstripes,spiders ect stick out like a sore thumb in the African bush. Because of that they make easy targets for predators. Think of all the bad ass morphs like the banana that have been eaten by other critters long before people started looking for them ;)

Side note there has only ever been one spider found in the wild.


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one? haha, i wonder how bad the wobble was from being so stressed out by being in the wild then captivity

Why do you think only one has ever been found? The thing everyone who doesnt know should realize is that most stuff coming out of africa isnt being picked from the bush. They are doing a ton of captive breeding now. they still pluck all the gravid girls they can find in the bush then hatch the eggs and ship em here. We the general public dont hear about everything that comes out of africa. There are guys that hand pick animals and keep em under wraps. I dont think for a second that only one of any wild caught codom morph has ever been found. Something had to produce it if it was a baby and something was bred by it if it was breedable.

they have to attracted to each other to mate in the wild maybe the african wild ladies think spiders and pinstripes are ugly...lol:P:rofl:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Why do you think only one has ever been found? The thing everyone who doesnt know should realize is that most stuff coming out of africa isnt being picked from the bush. They are doing a ton of captive breeding now. they still pluck all the gravid girls they can find in the bush then hatch the eggs and ship em here. We the general public dont hear about everything that comes out of africa. There are guys that hand pick animals and keep em under wraps. I dont think for a second that only one of any wild caught codom morph has ever been found. Something had to produce it if it was a baby and something was bred by it if it was breedable.

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I read something about that a while back in Kevin McCurley's book.

(I think he called them ball-lords, warlords hoarding all wild caught morphs).

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Originally Posted by CCfive

I read something about that a while back in Kevin McCurley's book.

(I think he called them ball-lords, warlords hoarding all wild caught morphs).

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Sounds like kevin was watching "lord of war" at the time of writting his book

The lack of camoflague makes the most since to me, but you still occasionally see piebalds captured in the bush and things like that.

With the spider "wobble" it would great to have a more diverse gene pool to see if this could be eliminated.

Etiher way it was something that has always been in the back of my mind and I just wanted to hear other peoples thoughts.

Thanks to everyone.
Dave

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Originally Posted by snake lab

I dont think for a second that only one of any wild caught codom morph has ever been found. Something had to produce it if it was a baby and something was bred by it if it was breedable.

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Your thinking is fundamentally flawed. The idea of "If a spider was caught in the wild, it automatically means one of the parents was a spider" just isn't so. Just like anything else, there has to be a first. Somewhere along the way something went wrong genetically, and the first spider was hatched.

There have been no other wild spiders found. Trust me, if there had been, we would know about it. Whoever found it would have told the world, and been rich as a result. Could there still be one out there? Sure. I seriously doubt that though. It, or one of its offspring would have been found by now... and we would know about it.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Deformed animals like pieds,pinstripes,spiders ect stick out like a sore thumb in the African bush. Because of that they make easy targets for predators. Think of all the bad ass morphs like the banana that have been eaten by other critters long before people started looking for them ;)

Side note there has only ever been one spider found in the wild.


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No Ed. Spiders come from an area where crab grass is very prevelent and people just have a hard time seeing them in the bush. As for pinstripes, well, them come from areas where knotweed is very prevelent.:rolleye2:

For the record more then 1 of both spider's and pin's have been found. I was sent a hatchling spider from a bush caught female. Just about all recessive morphs are found every season. I work with a "ball lord" in africa and i've seen so many single gene morph either be found in the bush or captive hatched from gravid females found in the bush. The only morphs I haven't seen are banana's, champagne's, and sentinel's. Just because we don't hear about these things doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The US isn't the only market and a lot of the guys in Africa sell things with out letting anyone else know and they get shipped all over the world.
They know what the morphs are worth they have access to the internet just like we do and they do keep anything crazy.

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Originally Posted by meeistom

For the record more then 1 of both spider's and pin's have been found. I was sent a hatchling spider from a bush caught female. Just about all recessive morphs are found every season. I work with a "ball lord" in africa

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So you got a hatchling spider produced from a bush caught female from your "ball lord" in Africa?!

:pinkele:

You know, I have some incredible ocean front property for sale right now in Missouri... Being that we know each other so well through BP.net, I will be happy to hook you up with an extra special price if you are interested...

Seems to me its about time i get a ticket to togo and go crawling around the bush n talk to ppl with alot of ak's lol

But i think there has to be alot alot of animals caught from the bush or hatched from gravid wilds that we wont see and may never see. If we have a small gene pool here to play with and we manage to make new stuff all the time, imagine what is actually going on is the wild. Every animal changes it apperances to suit the area its in its called "camoflauge" lol. Ball pythons natural range is huge with alot of small bio zones, which maybe mono cultures(aka one plant is majority of the foliage, like river cane in ditches) which forces the animals to changes there pattern to fit in or die. Seems like alot of the balls we have now came from a very small area of their natural range. So imagine what is crawling around red volcanic rocks or black sand river beds, or even playing around in the bright green ground foliage of jungle valleys. Then every year new things pop out, conflicts n red tape stop alot of areas from being explored or animals being sent to markets like here in north america. If one is made more will follow i doubt i they found 1 spider(or w.e) in the wild he or she didnt hook up before it was nabbed or it does have a sibling that took on simular pattern, unless it was born to a female normal wild n it was the onlt one out of 12, but still we all know the odds game...

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Originally Posted by meeistom

For the record more then 1 of both spider's and pin's have been found. I was sent a hatchling spider from a bush caught female. Just about all recessive morphs are found every season. I work with a "ball lord" in africa and i've seen so many single gene morph either be found in the bush or captive hatched from gravid females found in the bush. The only morphs I haven't seen are banana's, champagne's, and sentinel's. Just because we don't hear about these things doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The US isn't the only market and a lot of the guys in Africa sell things with out letting anyone else know and they get shipped all over the world.
They know what the morphs are worth they have access to the internet just like we do and they do keep anything crazy.

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So you paid the hundred dollars for an import license, plus the hundreds of dollars for the export fee's, vet cert's, Delta dash, ect ect..for a baby spider??

P.S. here's a tip..many of those "Ball lord's" took to breeding there WC stuff to prove it out and charge more because they know what it is.. :gj::gj:

P.P.S wild caught and captive hatched are two very different things..

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Your thinking is fundamentally flawed. The idea of "If a spider was caught in the wild, it automatically means one of the parents was a spider" just isn't so. Just like anything else, there has to be a first. Somewhere along the way something went wrong genetically, and the first spider was hatched.

There have been no other wild spiders found. Trust me, if there had been, we would know about it. Whoever found it would have told the world, and been rich as a result. Could there still be one out there? Sure. I seriously doubt that though. It, or one of its offspring would have been found by now... and we would know about it.

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This goes back to the chicken or the egg. I agree something went genetically wrong in some aspect to produce but if you think for a second that the world would know as soon as something is found in africa you are mistaken my friend. The bif importers here in the us have guys in place over there hired to find and produce stuff for them. These guys (importers) are already rich and they would make more money by keeping it a secret till they produce enough animals to create a market. When they find a one of a kind morph they first have to see if its codom, dom or recessive. Then they attack the market accordinglly. Before spiders hit the market there was alot of work to produce a number of them. Yes we will know about em but it wont be until work has been done with them. If you believe as soon as an animal is discovered we know about then that line of thinking is flawed.

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Originally Posted by meeistom

For the record more then 1 of both spider's and pin's have been found. I was sent a hatchling spider from a bush caught female. Just about all recessive morphs are found every season. I work with a "ball lord" in africa and i've seen so many single gene morph either be found in the bush or captive hatched from gravid females found in the bush. The only morphs I haven't seen are banana's, champagne's, and sentinel's. Just because we don't hear about these things doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The US isn't the only market and a lot of the guys in Africa sell things with out letting anyone else know and they get shipped all over the world.
They know what the morphs are worth they have access to the internet just like we do and they do keep anything crazy.

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Your ball lord gave you a spider hatched from a breeding he did. They are breeding in captivity in africa as well as hatching wild caught stuff. Unless you are a big importer with people on the payroll in country in africa then you are no different then any of us in the states and you wont get any other special treatment. The bottom line is these so called ball lords are going to sell to the highest bidder. Unless you are one of those high bidders then your not getting anything special out of the bush. Just cause people see pics of a balls habitat in books doesnt mean thats what it looks like in all the places they hide. Alot of the wild caught stuff is found in termite mounds under ground. Under ground is where the water is in alot of parts of togo, benin, and ghana. Balls dont spend most of their lives crawling and cruising above ground so camoflauge is not as big of a thing as some has mentioned here. Sometimes overthinking a situation will get things flawed. The bottom line is the ball python market is a huge multi million dollar market therefore its controlled by money. As with any industry the ones with the money control the market. The ones with the money are the ones who are going to be getting these one of a kind animals. Not some guy from home town usa with a hope and a dream.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Your ball lord gave you a spider hatched from a breeding he did. They are breeding in captivity in africa as well as hatching wild caught stuff. Unless you are a big importer with people on the payroll in country in africa then you are no different then any of us in the states and you wont get any other special treatment. The bottom line is these so called ball lords are going to sell to the highest bidder. Unless you are one of those high bidders then your not getting anything special out of the bush. Just cause people see pics of a balls habitat in books doesnt mean thats what it looks like in all the places they hide. Alot of the wild caught stuff is found in termite mounds under ground. Under ground is where the water is in alot of parts of togo, benin, and ghana. Balls dont spend most of their lives crawling and cruising above ground so camoflauge is not as big of a thing as some has mentioned here. Sometimes overthinking a situation will get things flawed. The bottom line is the ball python market is a huge multi million dollar market therefore its controlled by money. As with any industry the ones with the money control the market. The ones with the money are the ones who are going to be getting these one of a kind animals. Not some guy from home town usa with a hope and a dream.

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Ever heard of buying a wild caught gravid female? The odds of getting a morph from this are low, but there is still a chance. Last I heard, they sold for around $150.
Just sayin.

Yep sure have. Ive bought them before and never hatched anything but normals. And yes theres always a chance for something special.